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Old 15-05-2012, 17:13   #151
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

True in the main in large scale production - but there are other ways

St Francis and a couple of others do shaft drives with engines in the midships. possibly only works well on very big boats, but has a lot of advantages.

a lot of custom designs allow for a central mounted - bridgedeck mounted motor with a leg drive and some have hydraulic drives to each hull.

Even when the engines are shaft drive diesels mounted in the sterns there are still options - behind or in front of the rudders (and I know which I prefer there)

Also Peter Kerr at Lizard yachts did a couple of 43ft cats with Yanmar diesel ouboards mounted on rear of bridgedeck "ladders".

And Jim Brown designed "sleds" where the outboard is lowered to the water on what amounts to a v hull fixed to the main vessel.

As for your slight slight about Gas outboards - mine aren't in holes in the bottom of my boat. Durability wise, the yammie 9.9s seem to have an amazing track record with many of our 1000s still running original engines 15 years later. As for petrol safety, a properly design outboard engined boat will have all petrol lines and tanks "outside" the habitable portion of the boat - i.e. any leaks or vapours aren't trapped in the boat they end up in the sea or air. I know of not a single sailing cat outboard fire. And in any event many dieseled engined boats carry as much petrol as i do for their dinghy motor.

As for it being my call, that would only be true if I were building a custom boat, when shopping production, its one of the many choices- compromises - that a buyer will have to consider.

Mate I am not dissin your boat, just suggesting that the FP way is not the only valid way, and like all boating decisions will have a compromise to be dealt with.
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Old 15-05-2012, 17:16   #152
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

even though the engines were moved back in the 900 from the 9m (made possible with saildrives), the acces is still from within the cockpit. Much better IMHO than transom access and I aggree that the reason for this in modern boats has to be down to packaging.
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Old 15-05-2012, 17:51   #153
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Having said that, I once viewed a Jeantot power cat that had the engine a midships in each hull, this ment that you had two sets of steps each side to get down into the hulls from the main saloon/kitchen area but it still had room for 4 reasonable cabins (all of them doubles) and all in about 45 ft in length.
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Old 15-05-2012, 18:08   #154
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

HI Guys

Tom Corkell cirumnavigated many times in his 27 ft cat. If that is of any help.

Regards
JOhn
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Old 15-05-2012, 18:10   #155
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Well there are only two real designs for cat engines.
Diesels in the sterns or
Gas outboards sticking through open holes in the bottom of your boat.
Its your call.
Most cruisers prefer diesels for fire safty and durability.
There are also cats with shafts either mid or mid aft located. If the relatively heavy diesel motor is located right aft the design needs to cater for it. FP certainly seems to does it reasonably well.

Cats smaller than 36ft (30-32ft) would struggle with aft mounted diesels to be properly balanced and equally are difficult to design for mid mounted engines.
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Old 15-05-2012, 19:09   #156
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

I totally agree that every boat design is a compromise.

The OP was looking for the smallest cat.

Low cost = Gemini 105
Low Marina fees = Gemini 105, 14 foot beam can go in a standard slip.
Less for maintenance = Gemini 105, one diesel
34 foot cat = 44 mono

Gemini 105 = 1,200 copies made so far, no other model is even close.
compromises yes, but 1,200 happy customers speaks to the design.
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Old 15-05-2012, 19:28   #157
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Wow, did some reading on the 105, seems like a very nice boat. I'll keep that I consideration when I go shopping some day.
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Old 15-05-2012, 20:06   #158
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

I would not debate whether the Gem is a good boat at what it was designed for but whether it is the right boat for blue water cruising. I know people have circummed in it but I'd rather have the Seawind 1000XL. More $$$$$. Sigh
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Old 15-05-2012, 20:11   #159
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

I love the look of the 105, investigated them when I was in the market for my current boat. Two problems, 1. They are RARE in Europe so they sell quickly but over in the 'states that shouldn't be a problem. 2. The single engine. Every cat' owner i've espoken to has said that manouvering a single engined multi is a PITA. With no keel to keep a good grip on the water, they can get blown out of position very easy. I guess you could leave the daggerboards down but still I love my twin engines.

Overall though, the Gemini has a very similar layout to mine (I believe their main designer worked for Catalac before moving to Gemini) and can say after nearly a year of living aboard, it's a great setup.
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Old 15-05-2012, 20:19   #160
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

My 31 Prout Quest 1978 vintage has the original Yanmar 15 hp and the original Stillete drive leg. Both are working, the drive leg will be pulled and re-worked at next haul-out.
Does it hobby-horse yes in the right conditions
Can I sail at 10 kts yes in the right conditions ON A GOOD DAY

I can acess the engine and it's componets from the cockpit and also from a hatch on the back deck without getting out of the cockpit.

I am 6' 1" tall and weigh 190# standing in the nacelle there is 5' 11" head room. But there is no place to go from there except to the saloon table or to one of te hulls, which have 6'2" head room.

Pluses on this boat for me are:
2'7" draft I cruise the Keys and Bahamas, yes there is some leeway when goin to weather, just adjust course accordanly.
Easily sailed single handed
14'3" beam fits into most "note" I said most boat slips.
Designed and built in England to handle those types of sea conditions.
One of my favorite features is the keels and the rudders are setup to ground on the tides. I have used this many times to clean the bottom and even changed a thru-hull by putting the boat on a sandbar at high tide and doing the work as the tide drops. Work completed water comes back in, back the boat off and go on your way.

This is not the perfect boat for everyone but it fits me and my life as a full time liveaboard.

I have been in 55 plus kts solo and never felt in danger in anyway, I actually felt safer than in my previous full keeled 33' mono.

Would I like a bigger boat.... maybe ,but not much bigger and I really like the way this boat is rigged. Never get out of the cockpit

Not the fastest and not the newest. I am the 4th owner of this boat and it has sailed from Euroupe to South America and uo to south Florida where I bought it. I bought it in Mia. and spent 2 days on the boat sorting things out and changng filters and on the 3rd day set sail to KW. Most of the time there was no wind and I motored... engine never even hic-uped and all sails worked well. Even got tail slapped by Hurricane Irene and never felt in any danger.

Everyone looks and looks at boats and makes their picks. There are many boats out there and each is an individual pick, kinda like what car or truck do you drive.

Bottom line I would go blue water with this vessel in comfort and safety
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Old 15-05-2012, 20:37   #161
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

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And then your friend woke up from his dream. You cannot check the oil from the steps and the fuel filters are in the lazaret in the cock pit.Alcohol may have been involved if he falls off the boat checking his oil. Just sayin.
???? I couldn't disagree more. First off, not a friend... a guy I know.

For clarity I dug out some Mahe photos of mine...

Lets make sure we agree with the engine access we're talking about



The hatches are part of the top transom step. In this photo you can make out the edge of the hatch above "Apollo Beach"

And then the engine itself.



This photos shows a Volvo D1-20 coupled to a sail drive. Not sure if they were offered with Yanmars.

Anyway, there's not a lot of room to check alternator, fuel pump or the water pump , all of which are on the forward facing part of the engine. Which is the hatch pivot point. I'll have to look around for photos of the Yanmar diesel installation on my boat so you have something to compare it to. The guy I mentioned did in fact try and check his oil from the transom steps with disastrous results.

Like I said, I spend more time on catamarans than most folks.

Lastly, the OP never ever mentioned that he planned on buying a new boat. There are interesting options out there even though the boat is no longer being built.
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Old 15-05-2012, 20:58   #162
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

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My 31 Prout Quest 1978 vintage has the original Yanmar 15 hp and the original Stillete drive leg. .......

Bottom line I would go blue water with this vessel in comfort and safety
The Quest is a terrific boat. I'm curious, who do you know that works on the Stillette drive leg? There isn't anyone here in east central Florida.

Older British boats aren't fast but were build like battleships, and they did get the job done and kept their crews safe in blue water. I know where there' s a working Heavenly Twins 27 right now that could be had for less than $20K (anyone contacting me on this boat, please note the date of this post). Needs some work but you could still sail her tomorrow. How many of those circumnavigated?? A bunch..
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Old 16-05-2012, 02:27   #163
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[QUOTE="simonmd"]I love the look of the 105, investigated them when I was in the market for my current boat. Two problems, 1. They are RARE in Europe so they sell quickly but over in the 'states that shouldn't be a problem. 2. The single engine. Every cat' owner i've espoken to has said that manouvering a single engined multi is a PITA. With no keel to keep a good grip on the water, they can get blown out of position very easy. I guess you could leave the daggerboards down but still I love my twin engines.

Ok I hear this alot .as a current owner of a single engine multi and a prior owner of a diesel engined mono prior I can personally vouch that my cat is 100% easier to dock than my mono ever was inane condition. Zero prop walk on my cat.
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Old 16-05-2012, 04:01   #164
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Tropic Cat
I totally agree with you about the Prout Quest. As for the Stillettte drive leg I do not know of anyone who works on them. My friend John and I did his when he had to replace the yoke on his.

I do know that the company is still producing them and parts are available. The have an excellent web site and all manuals and parts list are down-loadable. sonic_sterndrive_and_saildrive_list

We found that the drive is very simple and straight forward and did not have any problems , were able to have parts shipped from UK and receive them in just under 2 weeks. His was the MK11 model that is coupled to a transmission on the engine. Mine is the MK1 which has a small gearbox for forward and reverse coupled to a bobtail engine.

I think anyone who is of a mechanical bent would be able to repair one with the manuals and parts list. They are basiclly just several sets of bevel gears with shafts, and of course bearings , seals and such. We were able to source the bearings locally by cross refrenceing the manufacture numbers off the bearings
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Old 16-05-2012, 05:42   #165
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
???? I couldn't disagree more. First off, not a friend... a guy I know.

For clarity I dug out some Mahe photos of mine...

Lets make sure we agree with the engine access we're talking about



The hatches are part of the top transom step. In this photo you can make out the edge of the hatch above "Apollo Beach"

And then the engine itself.



This photos shows a Volvo D1-20 coupled to a sail drive. Not sure if they were offered with Yanmars.

Anyway, there's not a lot of room to check alternator, fuel pump or the water pump , all of which are on the forward facing part of the engine. Which is the hatch pivot point. I'll have to look around for photos of the Yanmar diesel installation on my boat so you have something to compare it to.
There is 12 inches to the left to check alternator, the fuel pump and water pump have even more room. And this is for my Volvo D1-30 hp engines.
This engine room is better and roomier than any other boat I have seen under 40 feet. Most engine rooms are a box around the engine with sound proofing with just a few inchs at most around the engine.

How many engine rooms have enough room to hold your bikes.
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