What is the best Catamaran to cruise and retire on?

[krafthaus]

We saw a very nice Knysna s/v Second Chance for sale last month in Mt Hartman Bay, Grenada around the size the OP mentions. Spent time on board with the owners and they really enjoy their boat and find it easy to sail. It’s in super condition.

Having said that, we sail a Lagoon 420 launched 2010 & love our boat. It is a four cabin version which is perfect for us. We spend winters on board and the other half a year back home.

We live in the starboard hull where we each have a head of our own (ie. Stay out of each other’s way ), sleep forward and the aft cabin is available for my storage while my wife has the drawers & lockers in the forward cabin for herself.

When we have guests they have the port hull and the stbd aft cabin can be put into use for sleeping on the odd occasion when we have extra visitors.

Our yacht isn’t meant to win races but we feel very safe and secure even when we’ve encountered overnight passages with the wind blowing above the mid 30’s.

So it’s really what your friends are looking for in a boat & how it is equipped for comfort, function and safety that will determine if they are happy or not.

Cheers!

[Cpt Mark]

The very best Cat you could ever hope to buy is the one that meets your needs, wants and desires and is perfect.

Reality though is it does not exist. Buying any boat is about tradeoffs. You can have A, B, C, D but only 2 of the choices.

I recently bought a 1994 Island Packet, Packet Cat 35 and love it. Is it as fast as a lighter more modern one? No. Can I sleep a thousand people on board? No. What it does have is a Delta Pod in front that splits the wave and vastly reduces the pounding on the solid bridgedeck and provides a ton of storage. It has 2 cabins, each with their own head/shower, standing (or near depending) headroom in the engine rooms (I'm 6'1) and is built solid. Travel hoist operator told me in over 20 years of lifting boats he's never seen one move as little as mine did. At 35' with an electric winch she is easily singlehanded which is a high priority for me. She has wide decks to walk forward on that are flat, no curves to the outside which becomes important when the decks are wet and bouncy. The top rail of the "lifelines" is solid SS tubing. Looks great and does not break, come apart etc.

There are many other reasons I love this cat. You should go look at as many different cats as you can from all sizes, price ranges, years and think about how you plan to use it. Example: If you're going cruising where does the food go? Warm clothes? Cold clothes? Toys, dink, emergency stuff, food.

I once looked at a custom built 135' wood sailboat at a yard I was looking at to have a 15 million dollar yacht built for a client. Owner of the yard asked me what I thought of the boat. It's beautiful to look at but I hate it. He was shocked and asked why. There was no room for storing anything like food, clothes etc. Ahh he says, you don't understand what this boat was built for! Rich Italian who had a mega yacht with helicopter would position that yacht wherever in the world he wanted it and the sailing yacht would be off the coast of the golf course. He'd play golf in the morning and go back to the sailboat with his guests to have lunch then back to golf and back to the mega yacht to have dinner and spend the night. 13 million dollars for a lunch platform.

Anyway, think deeply about your purpose and then look at everything and see what features work for you, don't work for you etc.

[Rimica]

I retired a year ago and moved on my new Outremer last May. We are 2 and live aboard.

Outremer is made to sail first and foremost and that his why I got that brand. I also trusted the builder.

We have a 51 and I can tell you that it is less spacious then a Lagoon of the same size. It is also significantly lighter and much more nimble.

Our preference on the spacious vs fast and nimble trade off is tilted to the latter. It is a personal preference.

This being said, after a year, we have no issues with the boat. As we got it new, we spent sometime fixing/correcting a few things but overall not too big a deal.

Contrary to other builders I know, customization is the responsibility of the builder at Outremer as opposed to the dealer. Tthe builder is remediating any issues with full knowledge of the internal build.

Our sources of energy are solar panels and hydrogenerator. We have no generator and we do not miss it. It makes the boat simpler and lighter.

All this to say that we live comfortably in our boat. We have plenty of room and the performance is superb. We like our boat. We have friends come on board for weeks and it is serving all very well.

What the boat does not have is a flybridge, walk around bed, a bathroom per cabin. All of that was not an issue for us.

We have limited ac, a washing machine, a water maker plus all the other regular stuff of fridge freezer ...

It sails like a dream on all point of sails and goes upwind like the best monohulls. At anchor it is comfortable.

This was a very good choice for us.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Rimica

I retired a year ago and moved on my new Outremer last May. We are 2 and live aboard.

Outremer is made to sail first and foremost and that his why I got that brand. I also trusted the builder.

We have a 51 and I can tell you that it is less spacious then a Lagoon of the same size. It is also significantly lighter and much more nimble.

Our preference on the spacious vs fast and nimble trade off is tilted to the latter. It is a personal preference.

This being said, after a year, we have no issues with the boat. As we got it new, we spent sometime fixing/correcting a few things but overall not too big a deal.

Contrary to other builders I know, customization is the responsibility of the builder at Outremer as opposed to the dealer. Tthe builder is remediating any issues with full knowledge of the internal build.

Our sources of energy are solar panels and hydrogenerator. We have no generator and we do not miss it. It makes the boat simpler and lighter.

All this to say that we live comfortably in our boat. We have plenty of room and the performance is superb. We like our boat. We have friends come on board for weeks and it is serving all very well.

What the boat does not have is a flybridge, walk around bed, a bathroom per cabin. All of that was not an issue for us.

We have limited ac, a washing machine, a water maker plus all the other regular stuff of fridge freezer ...

It sails like a dream on all point of sails and goes upwind like the best monohulls. At anchor it is comfortable.

This was a very good choice for us.

And you can get all the same attributes albeit with an older design ethic (interior design and exterior) with the first generation Outremer 50/55 for half the cost of the new generation.

[smj]

Originally Posted by fxykty

And you can get all the same attributes albeit with an older design ethic (interior design and exterior) with the first generation Outremer 50/55 for half the cost of the new generation.

Have you sailed with a newer designed Outremer of approximately the same size as yours and if so which boat performed better? I really like the older Danson designed Outremers, but when I watch the Outremer Cup videos it appears to me that they may be a little slower and have a more exaggerated motion than the newer models.

[Rimica]

Originally Posted by fxykty

And you can get all the same attributes albeit with an older design ethic (interior design and exterior) with the first generation Outremer 50/55 for half the cost of the new generation.

Maybe but one has to be available and two this is my last boat and I wanted it exactly to my specs.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you sailed with a newer designed Outremer of approximately the same size as yours and if so which boat performed better? I really like the older Danson designed Outremers, but when I watch the Outremer Cup videos it appears to me that they may be a little slower and have a more exaggerated motion than the newer models.

No, haven’t had the opportunity to sail, but have walked around at a hard stand of a 49 (shorter, stubbier hulls with a lot more rocker in the stern) and a 5X (higher prismatic and less rocker in the hulls). The 5X is a newer design.

Our 55L is in between the 51 and 5X (59) models for length. Both are heavier than our boat, with larger sail areas.

I would assume advances in naval architecture have improved the Outremer hulls from when Danson designed in the mid-90s to the current generation in the mid/late 00s. But correcting for sails I don’t think the differences would be that much. Certainly for cruising purposes there’s not enough difference in performance to make doubling the cost worthwhile. YMMW

Aesthetically I personally prefer Danson design. My partner does too, so that’s even more important. The lack of space and lower visibility in the salon are the biggest drawbacks of the Danson design.

For practical purposes, having a solid aluminium rail running the full length of the outside of each hull at the widest point makes coming along side anything tall much easier. And it creates a lovely sheer line.

[Rimica]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you sailed with a newer designed Outremer of approximately the same size as yours and if so which boat performed better? I really like the older Danson designed Outremers, but when I watch the Outremer Cup videos it appears to me that they may be a little slower and have a more exaggerated motion than the newer models.

Mine is the new design with the reverse bow. We have friends with an older Danson design and they are very happy with its performance. Needed some refit work but it is still a marvelous machine.

[Rimica]

Originally Posted by fxykty

And you can get all the same attributes albeit with an older design ethic (interior design and exterior) with the first generation Outremer 50/55 for half the cost of the new generation.

I wanted it exactly to my spec as this is my boat for the next 15 years. The volumes of the new model are also more accommodating of our needs.

[c-reel]

Originally Posted by Rimica

I wanted it exactly to my spec as this is my boat for the next 15 years. The volumes of the new model are also more accommodating of our needs.

Without generator, would you be able to share the solar and battery bank type/capacity you got installed ?
How much daily AmpH are you using for passage and at anchor?

You also mentioned you have "small AC", is it like a small 6kBTU type and only for the main cabin/owner hull, and do you run it on main inverter for a few hours to get boat a bit dryer or when it's really a hot evening?

thanks !

[Rimica]

We have 700 amps of mastervolt lithium batteries. We have a small ac for the master suite cabin which we used at time when at anchor. 30 to 45 minutes to cool off the cabin before bed. We have a big unit for the bridge which we use only in marinas.

We have 550 watts of solar panels. This is too small and I will double it soon.

The boat cruises at 8 to 12 knots easily so we use a Watt and Sea with variable pitch propeller to generate while under way. This makes the boat self sufficient while underway over a 24 hours period including water making, computers, autopilot fridges ...

At anchor, the panels and the batteries give us 3 days of autonomy, 4 if very sunny.

While sailing we have so much energy that I am thinking of cooking on an induction plate as opposed to gas. We will experiment this summer.

I have a small webasto furnace to heat the boat in winter and the hot water tank at all time. This also replaces the need for a generator to heat the water.

Those are big batteries and it takes time to recharge. The watt and sea will recharge 400 amps in 24 hours in addition to the other demands for electricity while underway. This is helped by the fact that when we leave an anchorage the engines are on for 1 hour or so at each end providing an additional 100 amp.

So far the setup is meeting our needs. With the additional solar I will be able to anchor indefinitely and be an energy hog at the same time. Maybe even get rid of the gas stove altogether (dreaming here).

[Rimica]

I am away from the boat for a few days. I know that the big one is 12000 btu. By memory the small one is 2 or 3000 btu.

[Mr B]

Cruise and retire on, That means going slow, Not racing,

I bought a 34 foot cat, Gemini 105 MC, Cruises around the 7 knot mark,
It has 3 bedrooms, 2 smaller doubles and a queen size main bed, Only one toilet and shower, It has full head height, Galley down,
It came with all the bells and whistles and a fully enclosed cockpit,
The PO lived full time on it on a swing mooring,
Which I needed for the cold and wet weather here in Victoria,
Two of us lived very comfortably on it for six weeks in Fiji,
Its 14 foot wide, so makes parking in a Marina very easy, Cheaper too as I only get charged for one berth,
I can sail it single handed very easily, Genoa ropes in the cockpit,
It has wind Genny, Solar, 280 Watts, and Motor Genny, 80 Watts, No Generator on board as it didnt need it, I never ran out of power,
Im Retired and is excellent for me, I can sleep six on board, In beds, 8 if I put the salon table down,

It was also in my financial reach and could still afford to sail it after buying it,

Cheers, Brian,

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Cruise and retire on, That means going slow, Not racing,
...

Retirement means no more full time work; it doesn’t mean nearly dead. The OP may enjoy sailing fast when he/she wants to. And going fast doesn’t have to be hard work nor restricted to racing.

Your choice works for you and that’s great. But it’s not the only way.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Retirement means no more full time work; it doesn’t mean nearly dead. The OP may enjoy sailing fast when he/she wants to. And going fast doesn’t have to be hard work nor restricted to racing.

Your choice works for you and that’s great. But it’s not the only way.

Honda Blackbird 1100XX is certainly not slow, And neither am I,