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Old 02-04-2014, 13:35   #31
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Re: What is a successful Survey

Nothing is worth anything until you have the documents in front of you.
A "survey" does not just include a physical examination of the vessel. It should include a legal search from manufacture to purchase date and have as much history and ability to prove free of liens, mortgage etc.

It is so easy to get caught up in word specifics, but as a purchaser, if Im not happy, then I walk. But then again, I would not commit myself to a purchase on the proviso of such loose wording. I dont mind giving a deposit for a fixed amount of time to sort through all issues, and that is to show seriousness of intent to purchase, and the fact that the legal and physical costs involved for survey are paid on my shilling, also determines that. That part is not refundable.

If I walk, I expect my deposit returned.
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Old 02-04-2014, 13:42   #32
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Re: What is a successful Survey

Bottom line is the buyer has right of inspection and acceptance or rejection of the vessel.... at least in every contract I've seen. The buyer may choose to waive a formal survey, inspect it himself or whatever and he may reject the whole deal for any reason. Even the mildew stains on the portlight curtains.
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Old 02-04-2014, 14:52   #33
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Re: What is a successful Survey

I agree with all the latter posts. It's a well defined process and smj is correct. That 10% is actually the broker fee and is held in the brokerage escrow account until the sale finalizes or they return the deposit. They do everything they can to keep it, by massaging the parties along to agreement.
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Old 02-04-2014, 14:53   #34
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Re: What is a successful Survey

Brokers each get 5%, Money is held in escrow by buyers broker.
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Old 02-04-2014, 14:57   #35
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Re: What is a successful Survey

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Brokers each get 5%, Money is held in escrow by buyers broker.
On a co broke, yes, if there is a buyer's agent broker, but more often than not, there is only a seller's broker and the 10% goes to that single broker.
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Old 02-04-2014, 15:00   #36
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Re: What is a successful Survey

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Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
On a co broke, yes, if there is a buyer's agent broker, but more often than not, there is only a seller's broker and the 10% goes to that single broker.

And if you end up refusing the boat hopefully the broker is kind enough to refund your deposit in a timely manner.


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Old 02-04-2014, 15:30   #37
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Re: What is a successful Survey

There is one other difference, which I did not see (may have missed) in this thread. When you sell a used car, the buyer gets a test drive, to see if they like it. In the case of a boat, sea trials are normally a part of the survey process. If you simply don't like the motion or "feel," that is reason to walk away. With a car you got to see that up front, with a boat, not.

I think most people would immediately walk if offered a contract that was binding on some specific survey wording. I certainly would.

You need to remember that the sequence of events is different than buying most things, and so the dance an escape clauses are different. If you did the test drive first, then the contract could be tighter. Other wise, not so much.

So yeah, the buyer can walk if they simply change their mind, by saying they did not like the motion or helm feel. Assuming the buyer paid for the survey, they have an interest in buying and put some money up. That's all you can expect.
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Old 02-04-2014, 15:41   #38
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Re: What is a successful Survey

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Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
On a co broke, yes, if there is a buyer's agent broker, but more often than not, there is only a seller's broker and the 10% goes to that single broker.

Really, most buyers don't have a broker? Why not?
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Old 02-04-2014, 15:56   #39
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Re: What is a successful Survey

I would guess that if you know what you like, and have a firm grip on what your looking at, and how much it's worth to you. Why get another guy involved ? Some brokers know a ton about boats, some know little. It all depends what your comfortable with. I eat, sleep, and breath boats. I would never get a survey or a buys broker. But for many people ( as verified by this forum) boating is new to them or not their total obsession and if you can't know it all, a second opinion is a good idea.
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Old 02-04-2014, 16:41   #40
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Re: What is a successful Survey

See the STANDARD (Yacht Purchase) FORM OF THE YACHT BROKERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA . It's fairly self-explanatory.
http://www.oceanmarinellc.com/broker...eAgreement.pdf
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Old 02-04-2014, 16:43   #41
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Re: What is a successful Survey

I ended up with a buyers broker because I couldn't get listing brokers to return my calls to see the boats I wanted to. It was my buyers broker that kept pushing me towards a Hunter, I didn't think that was what I wanted, but was almost talked into it by my wife and my broker.
Her best use was to get me appointments to see a boat, it was frustrating not to have calls, emails returned
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:10   #42
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Re: What is a successful Survey

Yea I had that experience once or twice, you would think they want to sell without the buyers broker to make a larger commission. I'll hold a grudge for a while towards the one guy who blew me off big, I bet he didn't even present my offer.
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Old 02-04-2014, 18:01   #43
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Re: What is a successful Survey

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Successful survey
If there is no success criteria set, "successful survey" means nothing.

Successful survey is just an "out" for the buyer. If the windows are crazed and leaking and this is found on the survey, then the seller at the discretion of the buyer will need to resolve this or reduce the price, otherwise the buyer can walk away, but the seller can't.

If the contract specifically states cosmetic damage & structural etc, then there is a success criteria for the survey to go by.

These contracts are great until things go pear-shaped and then they mean nothing.


"Subject to finance" is a tricky one too and ALWAYS gives the buyer an OUT, unless you add more information.

In your contract you MUST include the name of the financial institution AND the amount financed.

Otherwise if I as the buyer get cold feet, he can just go to a bank that won't give me the money and then get a letter from them stating this and automatically he can pull out of the deal.
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Old 02-04-2014, 18:05   #44
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Re: What is a successful Survey

I can tell you that if I had to sign a binding agreement before I got to look at your boat, you wouldn't have to worry about me, I'd never do that and I doubt many would.
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Old 02-04-2014, 18:49   #45
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Re: What is a successful Survey

Unfortunately, the phrase steps boldly into the realm of semantics. Ultimately, it mean what it means to the person who says it, which obviously varies depending on who says it and under what circumstances. I don't think lawyers have any better insight into what it means, given the fact that they argue endlessly about what words mean for a living.

I do not believe that the phrase means that the survey came back confirming that the boat was "as described." Rather, I think it means that the buyer believes that all the information that they need in order to proceed with the deal (either walking away, engaging in further negotiation, or holding to the offer price) was provided by the survey. It was successful for the seller, in other words, and they are the one that paid for it. They do not need to engage in further investigation (rigging survey, engine survey, etc.) in order to proceed with follow-on negotiations.

I would not fret too much about the delay. Boat buyers come in all shapes and sizes...some are knowledgeable and able to quickly make educated decisions during the boat buying process, but others are not. They will look at the survey, wring their hands, and wonder protractedly if they are making a good decision, simply because they don't have the confidence to guide them.

Either the buyer will walk away, or they will revise their offer. It's simply up to you to negotiate with them based on your assessment of the boat's value, the market, and your own individual circumstances.
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