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Old 18-02-2016, 05:58   #106
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
When single handing, what is faster and safer to reduce before a squall? Sock or roller?

Can the rollers even unfurl when the line is blocked in an endless system?
Does the line actually slip on the "disk" then?

I have an outer forestay with a furlex & genoa going to the masttop.
Is a sock less likely to interfere with that than a furler?

Thanks for your thoughts!

By the way the wing on wing genoa sounds very interesting too....


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Well, my opinion and experience is as follows:
If the systems are fine (i.e. furler and sock) it is normally easier to furl the sail than to take the sock down.
If the furling line is blocked, the sail would not open.
However, one thing to note about a furler: usually, genakers have extensive roach, and when a genaker does have such large roach, it may leave part of the sail free flying at the end of the furling process. This happens if the sail is furled too tight. No overfurling will solve the problem.
When it happens we either take the sail down into a locker or unfurl it and furl again less tightly.
If you leave the genaker with even a small free flying triangle and there is significant wind - the material will disintegrate.
When the continuous line breaks, it is not easy to replace it. There is an option to temporarily pass through an open ended line and use it to furl the sail and postpone the true replacement for a later time.
When a sock jams or the line that raises/takes it down breaks - the only solution is to take the sail down in a traditional/racing manner - two or three people on the bow take the sail down while the halyard is released and into a bag or bow hatch.
The above was all experienced, tried, suffered, paid for repair, solved etc....
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Old 18-02-2016, 13:48   #107
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Never needed 3 people to take a jammed sock and chute down in the conventional manner. I've done it solo working the halyard myself. What does help is a good hatch to send it down and using the lee of the main to help. I have a masthead rig with jib furler and haven't found a sock to be a problem.
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Old 18-02-2016, 23:24   #108
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Never needed 3 people to take a jammed sock and chute down in the conventional manner. I've done it solo working the halyard myself. What does help is a good hatch to send it down and using the lee of the main to help. I have a masthead rig with jib furler and haven't found a sock to be a problem.
I would say I depends on the size of the sail and wind speed.
I addressed a situation where you want to take the sail down in a hurry on a sizable boat because a strong wind arises.
To be exact, my post is described experience of 47' boat with 110sq.m genaker sail in winds over 20Kn when we felt that is wise to take the sail down and the sock misbehaved.
It happened more than once...
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Old 18-02-2016, 23:32   #109
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

I was addressing Franziska's situation, our boats are a similar size and I've had to do solo problem drops in winds over 35.
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Old 18-02-2016, 23:37   #110
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Two Drifters View Post
We use a shackle through the furler to stop it being able to move. Essentially lie a hand break. When not in use

A picture of this would be interesting if its not too difficult.
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Old 19-02-2016, 00:12   #111
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Sarayu View Post
We just crossed the Atlantic with an Asymetric, blew it out in the first 4 days. Two other yachts with us blew theirs as well, one an Asymetric and one a parasailor. ( admittedly the parasailor lasted 10 of his 12 day crossing).
two cats in the fleet flew double gennys. Both had an easy run, great speeds and no damage. There is NO WAY I am going to cross the next big puddle without a second Genoa.
This is the voice of experience you should listen to. Don't walk, RUN away from anyone who talks abut chutes and snuffers, even the 'multihull specialist sailmakers'. What you need as a tradewind passagemaker is a shorthanded sail handling system which allows one person to easily change sail area from the cockpit at night. Cats with a small foretriangle represent a challenge, but the double genny system (with the main down) gives a sail plan that can easily be adjusted downwind. As a result, you will have better average speeds, less breakage, more safety, and more rest.
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Old 19-02-2016, 02:24   #112
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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This is the voice of experience you should listen to. Don't walk, RUN away from anyone who talks abut chutes and snuffers, even the 'multihull specialist sailmakers'. What you need as a tradewind passagemaker is a shorthanded sail handling system which allows one person to easily change sail area from the cockpit at night. Cats with a small foretriangle represent a challenge, but the double genny system (with the main down) gives a sail plan that can easily be adjusted downwind. As a result, you will have better average speeds, less breakage, more safety, and more rest.
i think thats a bit too harsh, to run away from chutes, but i am nearly sold on idea of 2 jibs.My cat has ready to go setup, only second jib missing, ideally carbon

i had my gennaker down in 20 kn true and was no big deal. So far. But havea no ambition to do this at night.

Tried to reef main at night and it wasn't pretty.
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Old 19-02-2016, 06:09   #113
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

we used a code 0 and jib on a recent sail. might be worth considering in the right conditions
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Old 19-02-2016, 07:46   #114
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Leaning towards the second genoa solution too.

Maybe add a second hand genaker for daytime use later.

Thanks for all the great ideas.

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Old 19-02-2016, 09:49   #115
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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i think thats a bit too harsh, to run away from chutes, but i am nearly sold on idea of 2 jibs.My cat has ready to go setup, only second jib missing, ideally carbon
You've still been listening to too many sailmakers. Carbon jibs are not for cruising--they will fall apart in the sun.
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Old 19-02-2016, 10:28   #116
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

I'd recommend a 1.5oz triradial over a assymetric, for the deeper passage angles they will be easier to set and flog less.

I'm set up for 2 jibs as well with a double slot on the furler, nice to have the option. In truth when not wanting to work too hard I just sail with one and use the barber hauler to pull it out . For sure getting the A sails down early is the key.
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Old 19-02-2016, 13:47   #117
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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You've still been listening to too many sailmakers. Carbon jibs are not for cruising--they will fall apart in the sun.
Not quite correct, Carbon fiber is less effected than any other fibers from UV exposure. If a film on film laminate, the mylar on the outside will suffer from the sun. Carbon cruise laminates, with taffeta on both sides, are great for highly loaded cruising sails. I prefer this to Hydra Net on larger boats. Much less stretch and still very good durability.
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Old 19-02-2016, 14:57   #118
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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I prefer this to Hydra Net on larger boats
curious... please elaborate what is 'larger?' and are you saying that Hydranet stretches?

thx
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Old 19-02-2016, 15:46   #119
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Hydra Net, a "woven" material with primarily polyester fibers and a "net" of Dyneema fibers on the warp, will stretch less than woven dacron. This is a great long lasting material but, will not offer the low stretch performance of Carbon or Spectra cruising laminates.
I recommend Carbon cruise for multihulls in the 50 ft or larger range.The material price is about the same as Hydra Net but, the performance life will be much better.
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Old 19-02-2016, 16:03   #120
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
You've still been listening to too many sailmakers. Carbon jibs are not for cruising--they will fall apart in the sun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecalvert View Post
Not quite correct, Carbon fiber is less effected than any other fibers from UV exposure. If a film on film laminate, the mylar on the outside will suffer from the sun. Carbon cruise laminates, with taffeta on both sides, are great for highly loaded cruising sails. I prefer this to Hydra Net on larger boats. Much less stretch and still very good durability.
Glad you chimed in Dave - I was starting to get worried about my carbon fiber mast snapping like a twig once I hit the tropics
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