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Old 24-12-2015, 13:53   #46
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Just my two cents.

I have boat conventional and continuous furling systems, one for my screecher on the bowsprit and one for the working jib. With both I wind probably three or four turns of the sheet(s) around the sail. Not sure if it is the best solution but I have a small cleat on the continuous furling system just ahead of the end pulley by the starboard steering station. I can only take a couple of turns on the cleat but I also use one of those cheap Walmart bungee thingies wrapped multiple times around both of the lines on the continuous furl system as an extra stop.

Just as an aside I tend to put the sheet under my foot when furling so there is some tension on the head sail as it is being wound up. Sometimes I am not able to do this as well as I like, but it is a fairly simple exercise to look at the sail and notice any exposed areas that may be subject to an accidental opening. If the sail does not look tight and secure I will redo the furling making sure there is some tension on the sheet till I am happy with how it looks.

Never had a problem with accidental opening.

Yes we are pretty careful with a similar approach as well.
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My point was that roachy gennakers, MPSs etc always have a part that can catch the wind. We used to but 6-10 wraps of the sheet around ours but the upper part could still unfurl in enough wind. Possibly code zeros have less roach and would work ok on a fixed furler on the prodder. That's the only other option I'd probably consider, other than a sock. Sock or continuous line id definitely lower when not in use.
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Old 24-12-2015, 23:03   #47
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

We crossed the Pacific with a Parasailor and learned to love that sail.
As it has been said. it is VERY forgiving, on a DDW run you can leave it on for days on end, it will stay full on 15~20 degree wind shifts.
Jybing is a 'non event' even for a novice crew.
The sails doesn't collapse even in 5~6kn True and I could run it from 80 degrees apparent, just playing with the guys and sheets.
Admittedly, at 186m2 it was a little too big for our Salina 48, but we had it run on 23kn and managed to take it down without problems.
Between 6 and 20kn, we always run at more than half TWS, even done 6 in 9kn TW.

It was an old sail and I blew it in Panama, so I crossed the Pacific with a kevlar Code 0 on a furler, often wing on wing with the Genoa.
This arrangement is not as good at all. Without a wisker pole, I'd loose one or the other on a wind shift.
Jybing is a lengthy exercise as the forestay is in the way and I always found it difficult to furl it properly, a couple of times it hourglassed on me...

A friend on a 46 cat had twin genoas and he loved them using them in all winds except below 6kn.

If I was to choose sails for a new boat I'd go twin genoas and Parasailor.
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Old 25-12-2015, 00:55   #48
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Admittedly I am not a very experienced sailor so I have never heard of a 'tweaker line' and don't understand how a line can hold a jib out without a pole. I only have a head sail so being able to get it to stay out would enable me to sail ddw which I cannot now do. Perhaps a drawing? Thanks.
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Old 25-12-2015, 02:54   #49
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Why not an FFR? It is an evolution of the Code 0 from One Sails, i will install it next week and try on my Catana.

OneSails Sailmakers :: Official Site :: The Next Generation of Sails
Costs are reasonable, expected performances and easy of handling are supposed to be on top. Will keep you updated, if you want.
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Old 25-12-2015, 04:42   #50
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Not to thread drift but wondering about attachment points for the guys. We have recently picked up a Symmetrical spinnaker have.had experience w only an asym on a cat. I could tie 2 attachments one to each side of the cross bar, we could use our bow cleats but I believe the forward lifeline rails are in the way. Any or advice or pics would be well recd.

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Old 25-12-2015, 05:41   #51
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Not to thread drift but wondering about attachment points for the guys. We have recently picked up a Symmetrical spinnaker have.had experience w only an asym on a cat. I could tie 2 attachments one to each side of the cross bar, we could use our bow cleats but I believe the forward lifeline rails are in the way. Any or advice or pics would be well recd.

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Depends on how the boat is rigged, but on mine I have a block on each bow, the guys go thru there and then to a cleat on the forward beam. The sheets run back thru turning blocks near the stern and then to winches on the deck house.
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Old 25-12-2015, 06:03   #52
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Bruce626 View Post
Admittedly I am not a very experienced sailor so I have never heard of a 'tweaker line' and don't understand how a line can hold a jib out without a pole. I only have a head sail so being able to get it to stay out would enable me to sail ddw which I cannot now do. Perhaps a drawing? Thanks.
With the wide beam of a cat, you can run a line to attachment points far enough outboard that you dont really need a pole. Though a pole does provide additional rigidity.

For deep off the wind, or running wing-on-wing, I run both a "barber hauler" and what Im calling a "tweaker" line (a useful general term for lines used for sail trim that dont have a specific name). The barber hauler is rigged to a cleat roughly midships. With a 22' beam that puts it about 12' from center line. The tweaker I run from the clew, thru a block on the bow, to a cleat on the bow. These two lines in combination control the clew outboard and forward. Both are adjustable for trim. The jib sheet is still used to haul the clew inboard/aft. In combination you can put the clew just about anywhere you want it, without being restricted by the location of the jib car tracks.

A barber hauler is very useful on most multis for sail trim because of the wide beam and usually only one or two jib car tracks. The barberhauler in combination with the jib sheet allows you to position the clew of the sail over a wide range (inboard to outboard).

I dont have a pic of the tweaker, but do have one of the barberhauler. This was taken on a deep broad reach, starboard tack. The multipart yellow line running top to bottom of the frame is the mainsheet. The vertical block and tackle aft of that is part of my main sail preventer rig (there is a heavy duty "Shockle" brand bungee on the upper end of that). Forward of the main sheet you can see a line running parallel and close to the deck, then thru a small white snatch block...thats the barberhauler.

The tweaker I only use very deep off wind, usually when running wing-on-wing to stabalize and control the jib. Wing-on-wing pic attached. If you visualize a line running from the jib clew in this pic to the starboard bow, thats where this tweaker is run.

As others have pointed out, with a bit of tweaking conventional sails can be trimmed to perform pretty well down wind.
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Old 25-12-2015, 06:09   #53
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Michele iCan View Post
Why not an FFR?
Nylon? Please help me understand that choice of material.

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Old 25-12-2015, 06:32   #54
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Not to thread drift but wondering about attachment points for the guys.
A solution could be adding stand up blocks someplace on the bows - as far forward and outboard as feasible. Then you need to route the guys back to the cockpit somehow to a winch or thru a rope clutch and share a winch. I've seen lots of variations on how this is all accomplished. Recommend you tour other boats to look for good ideas. Sorry I have no pictures, but my guys run thru dedicated conduits under the deck so you can't see them anyway.....

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Old 25-12-2015, 07:23   #55
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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...With a 22' beam that puts it about 12' from center line. ...
That should read "...11' from center line."
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Old 25-12-2015, 07:51   #56
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Regarding tweaking the jib, we simply run the lazy sheet around the mid cleat on the same side as the sheet. It's adjustable, but with friction and I don't really like to adjust it under load, so I generally use the sheet to take the load, then adjust the lazy sheet, then release the sheet load. This pins the clew nicely out wide near the stay a step two sheets hold it stable. Not as good an option as a dedicated tweaker, but it works well without additional hardware and lines needed.
I fitted a couple of bow blocks for the spinnaker guys, as far forward as possible. A quick job so long as you can access under the deck. Running the lines back to the cockpit there are lots of options, but we generally run them to the base of the mast and through the 1st and 2nd reef turning blocks, up to the 1st and 2nd reef jammers. Again a couple of extra blocks and jammers would save 30 seconds rigging it, but as we don't need the reefs when using the parasailor it's no problem. All controls are at the helm then except the starboard sheet which runs to the aft starboard deck winch.
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Old 25-12-2015, 08:21   #57
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Tweaked line.
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Old 25-12-2015, 08:49   #58
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Regarding tweaking the jib, we simply run the lazy sheet around the mid cleat on the same side as the sheet.
Similarly, when we know we will be going harder on the wind later and choose not to rig the sym spi for a short DDW run, we temporarily run the spi sheet outboard of the shroud to the genny clew. Then ease the genny sheet to put the load on the spi sheet. This takes the genny a lot further outboard, like a virtual whisker pole. Then we have a lot more latitude to go DDW wing and wing. This should work well on any large overlapping genny. When you head up on the wind, simply ease the spi sheet and put the load back on the genny sheet and trim as normal. Untie the spi sheet.

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Old 25-12-2015, 08:53   #59
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Regarding tweaking the jib, we simply run the lazy sheet around the mid cleat on the same side as the sheet. It's adjustable, but with friction and I don't really like to adjust it under load, so I generally use the sheet to take the load, then adjust the lazy sheet, then release the sheet load. This pins the clew nicely out wide near the stay a step two sheets hold it stable. Not as good an option as a dedicated tweaker, but it works well without additional hardware and lines needed.
...
I do the same sometimes, but what I dont like about this option vs a dedicated tweaker is that if I need the jib sheet unexpectedly, then I have to re-rig it quickly.
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:02   #60
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Re: What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

Dulcesuenos, see my post #13 with videos for guy and sheet set up. You can actually set up with either 2, 4 or 5 sheets/guys depending on how much control you want on the day and how much the wind may shift.


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