What downwind sail for a cruising cat?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I'd get a symmetrical kite. The function of an asymmetrical would overlap with the screecher, and neither would really suit DDW.


You're cruising, not racing, so why tack downwind?

Just another perspective:

I run a full symetrical, but have been considering switchting to a code 0 on a furler. Partially because I get lazy, dont want to mess with rigging the chute, so dont run as often as I could. Two, the "body bag" takes up a lot of room, and with a code 0 on a furler I could just leave it up for the season.

The full sym is very easy to fly on a cat vs a mono. No pole to mess with etc. Jibing is much less involved, but I dont normally bother with jibing DW to improve performance, just when course change is needed (this is cruising after all). I run two sheets and two guys (one pair per side), which gives great control and makes jibing dead easy.

[Sarayu]

We just crossed the Atlantic with an Asymetric, blew it out in the first 4 days. Two other yachts with us blew theirs as well, one an Asymetric and one a parasailor. ( admittedly the parasailor lasted 10 of his 12 day crossing).
two cats in the fleet flew double gennys. Both had an easy run, great speeds and no damage. There is NO WAY I am going to cross the next big puddle without a second Genoa.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by Sarayu

We just crossed the Atlantic with an Asymetric, blew it out in the first 4 days. Two other yachts with us blew theirs as well, one an Asymetric and one a parasailor. ( admittedly the parasailor lasted 10 of his 12 day crossing).
two cats in the fleet flew double gennys. Both had an easy run, great speeds and no damage. There is NO WAY I am going to cross the next big puddle without a second Genoa.

For pure cruising I like the Idea of the double luff groove furler with two gennies set

[pbr]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

For pure cruising I like the Idea of the double luff groove furler with two gennies set

As I said earlier I know some very experienced offshore catamaran cruisers that use whisker poles and prevented mains with same success.

[monte]

Some good info on a double headsail rig here http://www.maxingout.com/no_bruising_cruising.htm

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Sarayu

We just crossed the Atlantic with an Asymetric, blew it out in the first 4 days. Two other yachts with us blew theirs as well, one an Asymetric and one a parasailor. ( admittedly the parasailor lasted 10 of his 12 day crossing).
two cats in the fleet flew double gennys. Both had an easy run, great speeds and no damage. There is NO WAY I am going to cross the next big puddle without a second Genoa.

We crossed in 2012 using two genoas and no main most of the time. Very easy on the autopilot and nothing broke.
Very easy to reef in a squall.

A bit slow on low wind days as it is just too little sail area compared to a good size spinnaker. We now have a second hand asym for this.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by pbr

As I said earlier I know some very experienced offshore catamaran cruisers that use whisker poles and prevented mains with same success.

An advantage of wide beam on a cat: I just run a tweaker line to hold the jib out. Not quite as effective as a pole, put pretty close.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Just another perspective:

I run a full symetrical, but have been considering switchting to a code 0 on a furler. Partially because I get lazy, dont want to mess with rigging the chute, so dont run as often as I could. Two, the "body bag" takes up a lot of room, and with a code 0 on a furler I could just leave it up for the season.
.

This was my idea when I was shopping for a code 0 but every sailmaker I talked to about this told me that, due to the lighter sail materials used, you cannot put a UV cover on a code 0 without affecting the shape, so we go without and just drop and bag it, leaving it on the tramp. Another concern, if using a continuous line furler, is that the sail may open up in a blow.

[beiland]

Originally Posted by Four Coconuts

There's an additional option for your to consider, it was done by Jeannius (forum member) on their circumnavigation on a Privilege 435EZC, same boat as you. He had a second Genoa he would hoist on his roller fuller(look carefully, there are two tracks) and fly one off each side. The beauty of this is you can ride it into the night without hesitation because you can simply reef it anytime using the roller fuller. It ends up being the same size as spinnaker. In addition, you have a back up Genoa if something happens to your primary.

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

For ease of handling I would go with the double genny on the roller furler. You can also set it with both gennys on one side,of course it will be double thickness ( weight) but it makes for an incredibly versatile sail.

I like this idea. Had to make a note of it.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by mikereed100

This was my idea when I was shopping for a code 0 but every sailmaker I talked to about this told me that, due to the lighter sail materials used, you cannot put a UV cover on a code 0 without affecting the shape, so we go without and just drop and bag it, leaving it on the tramp. Another concern, if using a continuous line furler, is that the sail may open up in a blow.

Oh well...so much for that lazy sailor idea...I assume you could leave it up for a day or two use in good conditions and then drop it in a bag on deck when anchored for a while.

Or rig it with a sock type UV cover.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Oh well...so much for that lazy sailor idea...I assume you could leave it up for a day or two use in good conditions and then drop it in a bag on deck when anchored for a while.

Or rig it with a sock type UV cover.

Misdemeanor laziness. We regularly remove our reacher and furler when not using them and stow them in a sail locker, but may leave it up on a long passage if we reasonably expect to use it again in the next day or so. When at anchorage removing the reacher permits us to fold up our sprit to get the bobstays out of the way of the anchor bridle. Leaving it unrigged also has the benefit of providing the genny a cleaner airflow when sailing upwind - there's no rolled up sausage in front of it.

Dave

[monte]

yeah roachy gennakers dont furl well. Lots of stories of them coming open accidentally. Ours did once so we never left it raised again after that. A couple of friends had theirs destroyed when they unfurled in marinas. Id definitely go the sock route if going for that type of sail again

[Privilege]

Originally Posted by davecalvert

We are a multihull sails specialist working closely with boat owners asking these questions. In my humble opinion, the best third sail in a cruiser's inventory should be either a large Code 0 on a furler or an asymmetrical spinnaker with a sleeve.

Thanks Dave. The original question was in relation to my fourth sail. My third sail is a screecher on a roller furler. I'm very happy with it, it's very easy to use and furls by hand even with a bit of air in it. I can roll it up in less than a minute just by slackening the sheet.

I'm now deciding upon a fourth (and probably last) sail which I need more for downwind sailing. It seems that the consensus is for a symmetrical sail or two head sails. I was originally leaning towards a full cut asym as my roller furler is also a top-down furler and I love how easy it is to use with the screecher. If it was as easy to use on an asym, I'd sacrifice a bit of performance for ease of use. However, I'm not going to talk myself into it if the experienced advice leads me elsewhere!

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by monte

yeah roachy gennakers dont furl well. Lots of stories of them coming open accidentally. Ours did once so we never left it raised again after that. A couple of friends had theirs destroyed when they unfurled in marinas. Id definitely go the sock route if going for that type of sail again

Just my two cents.

I have boat conventional and continuous furling systems, one for my screecher on the bowsprit and one for the working jib. With both I wind probably three or four turns of the sheet(s) around the sail. Not sure if it is the best solution but I have a small cleat on the continuous furling system just ahead of the end pulley by the starboard steering station. I can only take a couple of turns on the cleat but I also use one of those cheap Walmart bungee thingies wrapped multiple times around both of the lines on the continuous furl system as an extra stop.

Just as an aside I tend to put the sheet under my foot when furling so there is some tension on the head sail as it is being wound up. Sometimes I am not able to do this as well as I like, but it is a fairly simple exercise to look at the sail and notice any exposed areas that may be subject to an accidental opening. If the sail does not look tight and secure I will redo the furling making sure there is some tension on the sheet till I am happy with how it looks.

Never had a problem with accidental opening.

[davecalvert]

Originally Posted by Privilege

Thanks Dave. The original question was in relation to my fourth sail. My third sail is a screecher on a roller furler. I'm very happy with it, it's very easy to use and furls by hand even with a bit of air in it. I can roll it up in less than a minute just by slackening the sheet.

I'm now deciding upon a fourth (and probably last) sail which I need more for downwind sailing. It seems that the consensus is for a symmetrical sail or two head sails. I was originally leaning towards a full cut asym as my roller furler is also a top-down furler and I love how easy it is to use with the screecher. If it was as easy to use on an asym, I'd sacrifice a bit of performance for ease of use. However, I'm not going to talk myself into it if the experienced advice leads me elsewhere!

On a fourth sail, in addition to a Screacher, the asymmetrical cut spinnaker would fill in the gaps. This would have a wider range than the symmetrical spinnakers. It could be used on the bow sprit or with bow blocks.
Although, a lot of cruisers seem to find rigging either spinnaker too much hassle and often move toward the Code 0 on a furler. On multihulls, I believe these Code 0 sails should be made with Code 0 laminates or a light Dacron. This allows them to have a UV strip installed and be left up furled for lengths of time.
Dave