What Catamaran: Suggestions from the Community

[Mustang Sally]

Not sure which part that I don't know what I am talking about. They did go bankrupt and they are building them in South America. We have seen about a dozen cruising the Caribbean but none are the ones from South America. The canadian boat seemed like a good boat.

[axel&andie]

Originally Posted by Mustang Sally

Not sure which part that I don't know what I am talking about. They did go bankrupt and they are building them in South America. We have seen about a dozen cruising the Caribbean but none are the ones from South America. The canadian boat seemed like a good boat.

i've personally talked with two current owners who have bought and received builds made in argentina. not to be specific, and nothing against you, but in these kinds of comments, i sense a certain "first worldism". these kinds of comments keep repeating, ominously, that the boats are now built "somewhere in south america", as if that's something to be questioned. why should something built in argentina be less reliable or well-made than something built in the usa? this is what they said when the japanese were selling cars here in the 1970s and look at their reliability versus american cars for the last 20 years. globalization is not going anywhere people, open your eyes. and, if you're going to make comments such as "miserably trying to build them in South America but not having much luck" you better show a source for that (dis)information, otherwise people might just say "you don't know what you're talking about." cause---effect.

[SFarah]

Originally Posted by Mustang Sally

I love the experts here who say "trust me" PDQ were built in Canada and went bankrupt a few years ago. Someone is now miserably trying to build them in South America but not having much luck.

Nearly two years ago, owners Jeff Woodman and Rob Poirier bought the molds, intellectual property and related support for the Antares 44 from PDQ Yachts and moved production from Canada to San Fernando located on the outskirts of Buenos Aires. While not on the radar for many North Americans as a boat building country, Argentina has been producing high-tech, custom yachts for generations - take Argentine naval architect German Frers as one example - not to mention the numerous competitive racing yachts being built there for the European market.

Today we have a solid build schedule, an expanding production line with one to be launched imminently, two already delivered. Interest in the Antares 44 has been growing in spite of the boating industry's downturn.

In other words, yes, someone is building them in South America, but if this is making somebody miserable, it's not us!

S Farah
Antares Yachts

[mdsilvers]

Correction to my earlier post. There will be an article on the 44i in the next issue (Oct I believe) of water sailing">Blue Water Sailing....not Cruising World. :-)

[winds aloft]

To throw a slightly different take on this thread... My wife and I have been living and cruising on our owner's version Lagoon 380 S2 for almost 2 years now. We are often joined by my brother. This size boat is completely comfortable for 2-3 people, so would be more than adequate for 1 person's living. My wife loves to entertain and the get-togethers always happen on our boat because of the space. We have entertained as many as 14 people on this boat. One of the reasons we picked the Lagoon is the galley up configuration that has been panned here. We wanted the cook (my wife) to be part of the group, not isolated below, when we entertained.
Lagoon builds a good boat at affordable prices. Are there things we don't like? Yes. But I imagine I would say that about a boat I had custom built, too, based on my house experiences. We have sailed this boat across the Atlantic, around the leeward and windward islands (twice), through the Bahamas (twice), up the east coast of the US (twice), and to Bermuda. We will again do the east coast to Bermuda to leewards circuit this fall. It has been very easy to single hand, and came equipped from the factory that way. It is a capable boat in high seas. Though I have not tested it's capability in 50+ knots (nor will I if I can help it), with a drogue or sea anchor (both of which I have) I believe it would ride just fine.
I will echo the sentiments posted here regarding single handing long distances. Don't do it! You can not possibly be alert enough standing watch to be safe for yourself or anyone else whose path you cross after being awake more than a day! People who tell you otherwise have not studied fatique and are kidding themselves. When my wife and I sail for more than 3 days offshore, we have at least 3 people to share watch. I consider that to be the minimum safe crew. Insurance companies agree, usually specifying that minimum for offshore sailing.
Bigger is not necessarily better. This is especially true when it comes to taking care of the boat- washing, waxing, haul out, bottom painting; and when mooring or tied up at a marina. Remember, most marinas will double the per foot charge for a catamaran just because they can... And smaller boats may sail better than larger ones. I found that to be true when I sailed the Lagoon 440 vs. the 380 (though my wife loved the galley space on the 440). If the 400 had been out 2+ years ago we might have ended up with it, though I have a friend who bought one, sailed it across the Atlantic and had some issues. I definitely would not go with the 420. I know 2 different people who have had nothing but trouble with them... Too bad- such a promising technology...
Food for thought... You have to decide what's most important for you and buy the boat that fits! Fair winds...

[paulrack]

Another suggestion is the new Maverick 400. It is a new design by Phil Southwell built by a passionate builder in South Africa. Mine has just been launched "Catarina" hull #6. It is a spacious boat with lots of innovative features, fantastic quality, huge attention to detail, including building all the non structural items to the correct weight so that the boat sails unbelievably well. Most people when they are inside it think it is a 50ft boat. For me the building process was a huge amount of fun as well as you can be very involved with the build and there are lots of choices. My boat has the latest interior design which I feel works really well. The boat CE certified and can carry a big load if required. I have posted some pics and stats from the launch on this forum http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ina-44476.html.

For me the great thing is I have a spacious airy boat that my wife loves, but one that sails well, is responsive and can sail well in light airs as well and does not need a gale to get it going because it is so heavy.

[schoonerdog]

And there you go, everyone has chimed in, time to look around. Were I you I would compare boats on a few things:

1) structural bouyancy, how far would the boat sink in case of a mid hull breach? For boats like PDQ and Privilege, its a few inches, others may quite well sink. Double check them also buy going forward and aft and looking at water tight comparments, if they are big enough to stretch out in at both ends of the hull, you've got a very safe boat. If your instead looking at a birth, then that part would fill with water and sink.

2) look at the quality of the finishes inside, it's what will sell the boat quickly when you decide to sell it.

3) look at rub rail placement, on the PDQ 44 is a high aluminum toe rail and a mid hull rub rail. This means your boat doesn't get scratched when you pull out of a slip at the wrong angle and are looking at thousands of dollars of gelcoat repairs. It will vastly increase the ability of your boat to age well.

4) you mentioned going into the tropics, having an small overhang over the main bridgedeck windows true helps there.

5) how well does the boat fill its footprint. One boat mentioned here started as the 38 ft multi and then was stretched to 44 ft. As a result, the last 6 ft of the boat are just transom.

6) bridgedeck clearance. its not everything as some suggest, but insufficient bridgedeck clearance will interfere with your ability to sail to wind in choppy conditions (and that's really the only thing it will do aside from being annoying). A friend of ours drives his dingy underneath his PDQ 44 to hoist it.

Make sure the boat is solid fiberglass underneath the waterline, that it has sacrificial minikeels or daggerboards (whichever you prefer, lots of arguments for and against, there is no right choice).
When sitting at the helm, make sure you are protected against the elements and can see everything clearly.
Also inside the boat, make sure you've got plenty of visibility all the way around, that the windows only purpose is not to let sunlight in and heat up the boat as it is for many boats.
On the decks you shouldn't feel like your going to slip and fall anywhere from the angle.
Look at the anchor, can you reach it and see it easily when hoisted?
Look at the cockpit.
A truely well designed and protected cockpit doubles the amount of living space you've got in your boat. The more vulnerable the cockpit is to leaks and rain and wind, the more its just a cockpit rather than an extension of your bridgedeck cabin.

Look at an older boat, say 7 to 8 years old. Look at the veneer. Was it sealed well? If it was, it will still look great and you'll know your boat will last a long time looking great. If it wasn't, then you'll see water stains starting to work their way down and it will look like crap in a little bit. Look for stress cracks around the forward attachments for the bows to the crossbar and around the mast and bridgedeck cabin top. It will help tell you how strongly the boat was built.

Last, a great quality check for the boat in general is to check the wiring really well. This is a really good measure of how well a boat is constructed because wiring is something that's easy to do poorly, and long and tedious to do well. Most people don't know what they are looking at, so for lesser builders its not emphasized. The wiring insulation should be stamped with labels for "marine grade" wiring, not just tinned wire. The non stamped stuff will have a softer insulation that you can feel the difference on. It will degrade within 10 to 12 years and all of the wire within it. All of the wire ends should be well labelled, not with masking tape, but printed, heat shrink labels. There should be a really good wiring diagram saying that wire number XX starts here and goes there. It should be accessible everywhere practicable. Favorite word, practicable.

Good luck.

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Wow I have never seen “Mast Roller furling main” on a Catamaran before.
I wonder why Antares 44i went with that design. Most catamaran sails are very heavy duty with full battens, because they can not lean over to relieve the gusting pressure on the sails.
I wonder if this my start a trend?

Mark

Talbot sailed his Catalac 9M with in mast furling for many years. It's not a new idea at all.

[Tropic Cat]

Yeah, Paul's been having a tough time sorting this out with his brand new boat. It would appear that spending north of 7 figures for a boat doesn't bring the customer service one would think it should.

I give him a lot of credit for calmly dealing with the situation.

[Boondocker]

According to the link given earlier to the PDQ 44 Antares, the beam is 71 feet 4 inches. I thought the beam was the width. The boat does not look almost twice as wide as it is long to me. What am I not getting?

[YOGAO]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

According to the link given earlier to the PDQ 44 Antares, the beam is 71 feet 4 inches. I thought the beam was the width. The boat does not look almost twice as wide as it is long to me. What am I not getting?

The beam measurement is 21.75 FEET, but someone, somewhere entered it as meters.

Fair Winds,
Mike

[Boondocker]

Thanks, I knew something wasn't right with that. That is a pretty cool boat, but I don't know how crazy I am about the saloon design.

[BOATaHOLIC]

Sorry guys, but IMHO forget the PDQ. They are waaay overpriced and there are better options for you and your pocketbook. For fit and finish, check out the Leopard 46's....Moorings/Sunsail run these in charter and the guests are urged to write about what improvements they'd like to see. As a result, they have tens of thousands of good suggestions (since the 1990's) and the builder listens to these suggestions and incorporates them into each new model. Lagoon benefits from the same thing. PDQ just can't compare. Privileges are nice but since they produce 1% of what Lagoon and Leopard produce they can't get economies of scale and you'll overpay. St Francis loaded bridgedeck clearance is not good and the hull-slapping will drive you crazy. Stick with a Leopard or Lagoon and you can't go too wrong.

[Ozbullwinkle]

I like the Leopards as well and it is my favourite of several cats that I have chartered and I spend a lot of my time sailing during my charters as opposed to just being anchored.

The size of the cockpit area in the Leopard is also excellent with its easy walkthrough giving access to the rear deck and the transom steps. This walkthrough also allows the boat to shed water quickly should you take a wave into the cockpit as opposed to other designs which have a fully enclosed cockpit that you need to step up & over to get out of.

Here is a clip of a Leopard 47 that I chartered sailing in winds gusting over 30 knots and it sailed really well in these conditions.

You may find it to be interesting viewing.

All the best with your search for a boat.

YouTube - Leopard 47 Catamaran sailing fast in 30 knot winds

[smj]

Originally Posted by BOATaHOLIC

Sorry guys, but IMHO forget the PDQ. They are waaay overpriced and there are better options for you and your pocketbook. For fit and finish, check out the Leopard 46's....Moorings/Sunsail run these in charter and the guests are urged to write about what improvements they'd like to see. As a result, they have tens of thousands of good suggestions (since the 1990's) and the builder listens to these suggestions and incorporates them into each new model. Lagoon benefits from the same thing. PDQ just can't compare. Privileges are nice but since they produce 1% of what Lagoon and Leopard produce they can't get economies of scale and you'll overpay. St Francis loaded bridgedeck clearance is not good and the hull-slapping will drive you crazy. Stick with a Leopard or Lagoon and you can't go too wrong.

Are you serious?