What Cat you would Buy?

[gixxxer]

Just a topic with nothing to do with reality but what cat would you buy if idea would be circumnavigating for 5 years and you would have:
- 200000€
- 400000€
- 600000€
- 800000€
- 1000000€

So which boat and how big partition you would spend on a boat and how much money you would spare for the trip?

I'm pretty sure that with 200000€ it would be pretty impossible to sail for 5 years but you are the experts, not me


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[maxingout]

I would buy a catamaran in the 40-45 foot range. Bigger than that is hard to handle without significant help from a crew. Bigger cats require more room in tight and busy anchorages, and they are much more expensive to maintain. When something breaks, it is big bucks.

I cruised for eleven years on $500 to $1000 per months on a 39 foot catamaran for our circumnavigation. It did just fine. Even 39 feet is a lot to maintain and sail with short handed crew.

[ingonoka]

I hope I am not guilty of highjacking this threat, but this is a very relevant question for me as I am "in the market" (as I believe the English say) for a cat at the moment.

I have read accounts of people in similar situations telling of sleepless nights, which I can now attest to first hand are very true.

One minute I am convinced I must go with a sensible Lagoon 39 fresh from the factory and the next minute I invariably remember that there is not enough space in that boat and I should go for a used Lagoon 450.

For a budget of Euro 300K to 400K you would have as lot of choice - anything from a brand new Lagoon 39 to a two years old 450.

Right now I actually think it is not the amount of money you have, but whether a boat is right for your particular situation. In my case, I have two main requirements that go against each other: I need to be able to single-handed sail the boat and I have to live on it in the heat of Dubai.

The Lagoon 38 is perfect for the single handed sailing, but gets too heavy once you put the essential equipment for living aboard on it (including a really big aircon). The Lagoon 450 would be perfect as a live aboard platform but would be a challenge to sail alone.

So for now, I went to the pub and hope that a few pints will give me the right inspiration, even so tomorrow morning I may not remember what it was.

(For whatever reason I am hooked on Lagoon. The other cats just don't appeal to me in the same way. )


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[monte]

Why did you skip the lagoon 400? I agree with your points regarding the 380,39 and 450 which is why we picked up our new L400 from les sables in May.
We had a 380 for a couple of years and it's a great cat at that price point..230k euro or so. We didn't really consider the 39 as it is pretty heavy and doesn't have more space than the 380 and the 450 is a bit big for cleaning, fuel, marinas and maintainance for our needs. We will be sailing the 400 back to Australia and beyond so we are confident in it for a round the world voyage.

[ingonoka]

I was actually sailing the 400S2 last month in Phuket. Coincidently the same boat is now for sale. I had the impression that the 400 is like the 39 without the advantage of the new rig with the self-tacking jib and the smaller main sail. Am I missing something?


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[monte]

Well the 400 is about the same weight as the 39 ( actually lighter, I just checked the specs, see below), but a lot more space and storage. As far as the new rig, my thought is it's mainly aimed at making it easier for charter customers to handle, and not aimed at improved performance. I haven't sailed the 400 to windward much so I can't comment on its performance but off the wind it's slightly better than the 380. The 380 sails to windward very well and I'm hoping the 400 does as well. 90 degree tack angles and boat speed around 7.5 k in 15k true wind. There's probably not a huge difference in performance of any of the models and it would come down to space needed and payload.
The 39 weighs 11.4t and has a sail area of 70m2
The 400 is 10.3t and carries 84m2
The 380 is 7.2t and carries 77m2
So looking at those figures, it's hard to believe the 39 would out sail the 380 or the 400.
As far as a self tacking jib, I can't see any benefit at all. The 380 and 400 are super easy to tack solo. Just hit auto tack on the autopilot and ease the weather sheet as you sheet in the windward sheet on the electric winch. Two hands and one toe and tacks are seamless.
I think the payload for the 380 is a little over a tonne, and the 400 around 3 tonne. I'm not sure about the 39.

[ingonoka]

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. As I mentioned, I was sailing the 400S2 in Phuket, but I also tried the 450. The 450 is a handful, especially because of the high boom. But it performs so much better and there is much more space to operate and stow away the lines on the fly bridge compared to the rather cramped helm station on the 400.

As they say, every boat is a compromise. Unfortunately I can't make up my mind which compromise I should make.


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[monte]

No problem. I find the helm easy to keep tidy with the sheets,halyards etc. it's just a matter of personalising where they're kept.
I keep the starboard jib sheet on top of the roof, inside the handrail, the port on top next to the winch. The lines in the bag are main sheet,reeling lines, parasailor guys. In front tied to the handrail is the excess spinaker halyard and jib halyard. All easy at hand, uncluttered and safe.
Sorry for the thread drift, in answer to the original question I'd go the 400k option and plan on 300k for the new yacht and 20k/year pocket money. Btw as far as the lagoons, the 380,39 and 400 are all under 12m so the same cost for marinas, haul outs, maintainance etc. the 400 is a bit hungrier on diesel than the 380, and I would suspect the 39 would use a bit more than the 400 simply because of the additional weight.

[Sail IC]

I think 200K Euro might be possible, just.

You can find a 10 year old 38 foot Lagoon/Leopard/FP for 100-150K Euro, so let say 250K Euro in total could do it. You could even go smaller and make the 200K.

If more money, buy bigger/newer/toys and spend more on beer.

How big short handed. Not sure if length, weight, windage, or sail area is the limiting factor. Probably a combination. But as previously mentioned, 40-45 feet is a good sized boat. Not too big, not too small.

Comment on performance. I think older catamarans are faster. Example. The old Fountain Pajot Belize 43 is 8.2T, mid aged Orana 44 is 9.8T, and the new Helia is 10.8T. Look at Lagoon/Leopard and I'm sure its the same trend.. So the newer designs has more creature comfort, but at the cost of speed. I wonder how far this trend will go, but that Lagoon 39 at 11.4T must require quite some wind before it moves.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by ingonoka

I was actually sailing the 400S2 last month in Phuket. Coincidently the same boat is now for sale. I had the impression that the 400 is like the 39 without the advantage of the new rig with the self-tacking jib and the smaller main sail. Am I missing something?


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Advantage?? For the record - if I was to buy a lagoon the 380 is the only one that makes sense to me.

[IdoraKeeper]

I would go Siamese...their noisy but smart

[BelizeBound]

Originally Posted by monte

Why did you skip the lagoon 400? I agree with your points regarding the 380,39 and 450 which is why we picked up our new L400 from les sables in May.
We had a 380 for a couple of years and it's a great cat at that price point..230k euro or so. We didn't really consider the 39 as it is pretty heavy and doesn't have more space than the 380 and the 450 is a bit big for cleaning, fuel, marinas and maintainance for our needs. We will be sailing the 400 back to Australia and beyond so we are confident in it for a round the world voyage.

Just ordered the 400 S2- It's my 1st Cat & my 1st Sailing Vessel....Will be delivered in December & will be put into Charter. Have you heard anything negative about the 5 year programs. For me it's perfect as I can't retire to Belize for 3 years and already have a condo there. I have to lay out $285,000 US, get 12 weeks/year & owe $1.00 @ the end of 5 years, and the Yacht should be worth $340,000 @ that time..... Is this Resonable?????

[Steadman Uhlich]

Lagoon 380 seems like a great size for single handing and also for taking one or more guests. I would save the rest of the budget for more fun while on the journey.

I wanted a 45 foot cat, but now think it is too much for one person for many reasons. I have surprised myself with my own downsizing and consider excess something to avoid now.

The air conditioning issue seems would be even easier with smaller boat.

[barnakiel]

I would buy a Hobbie and spend the balance on a Morris 46.

b.

[monte]

Sounds good Belize,. however I would question it being worth $340 in 5 years time. It seems theres a lot of 4 yr old L400's asking closer to $300k currently, and probbaly would accept less, take out broker fees and maybe they would clear $280K. Add to that the use of your money for 5 years, which I guess would return around $100k if left in the bank at 5% interest. So I would estimate the 5yr old L400 might cost you $100K more than the going rate in 5 yrs. 20K/year but you have the benifit of 12 weeks on board (assuming it would have to be off season?) as well as some tax deductions perhaps depending on your personal situation.
I don't have any experience with this type of program, maybe there are charter fees paid to you as well to offset the $20k outlay? Also with inflation, perhaps the used prices will increase by $100K, its hard to guess. I know Lagoons prices have been increasing 5-10%/annum the last few years