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Old 19-12-2012, 19:30   #91
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

In my somewhat limited experience, I enjoy sailing a mono sailing more than cat sailing... it just feels more like sailing. However, I'll end up with a cat, and probably a slow one - because at the end of the day, a happy wife is a happy life.

Anyway, despite the fact that the world needs more debate on the interweb about cats vs monos, I have an OP related question...

Does anyone know how the Lagoons compare in speed to a similarly sized Fountaine Pajot?
ie.
L38 vs Athena 38'
L400 vs Lavezzi 40
L420 vs Belize 43

The Lagoons and FPs are clearly the easiest to buy and there is a plethora of for those of us with limited funding... I would guess that the FP is around 10%-20% quicker upwind and on a reach, but I would love to know if anyone knows.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:13   #92
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

Gee, you'd think by now the majority of boats would be multi-hulled from all the talk on this forum (faster?, more stable??). Still, they are a small minority of boats, particularly "cruiser sized" here.

Here's an exception:



Regardless, the vast majority of boats hardly ever, if never, leave their berths (or mudflat). That's sad... Boat owners are mostly dreamers, not doers, or too busy or lame to boat.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:21   #93
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

It never fails to surprise me - though I think the day is soon to come when it will fail - that the "sailing over cruising" crowd repeatedly feels comfortable denegrating the "cruising" experience on a website called "cruisers" forum.

If anyone created an RV that bucked and rolled over every bump in the road, that leaned over 45 degrees putting the occupants into a crevice, that required that the owner strap themselves in and lean against a wall to cook a meal, to stand on their tiptoes to peer out a tiny window with a view only of the sky, and required the driver to stand on the rear bumper and peer around the chassis and over the roof to see where they are going, that directed road spray into their faces, and had such a high clearance and heavy weight that they could only access about 20% of the roads, then that RV would sell very few units.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:23   #94
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Gee, you'd think by now the majority of boats would be multi-hulled from all the talk on this forum (faster?, more stable??). Still, they are a small minority of boats, particularly "cruiser sized" here.
Replace the word "boats" with "cruising boats" and you'll find that multihulls are very rapidly gaining in share.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:43   #95
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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It never fails to surprise me - though I think the day is soon to come when it will fail - that the "sailing over cruising" crowd repeatedly feels comfortable denegrating the "cruising" experience on a website called "cruisers" forum.

If anyone created an RV that bucked and rolled over every bump in the road, that leaned over 45 degrees putting the occupants into a crevice, that required that the owner strap themselves in and lean against a wall to cook a meal, to stand on their tiptoes to peer out a tiny window with a view only of the sky, and required the driver to stand on the rear bumper and peer around the chassis and over the roof to see where they are going, that directed road spray into their faces, and had such a high clearance and heavy weight that they could only access about 20% of the roads, then that RV would sell very few units.
G'Day ArtM,


For someone who doesn't even claim experience sailing/cruising either cats or monos, you sure seem to know a lot about the scene.

Your analogy of the tilting RV seems a bit strained to me because having done a bit of cruising in various monohulls your description misses on several counts. None the less, I'm not at all opposed to multihulls... I quite like many of their attributes, but I get irritated with the sort of blanket condemnation that you have been spouting for monohulls. Seems to me that you are amongst those "denegrating (sic) the cruising experience" of the majority of real world cruisers.

Why can't you see that for many, the monohull experience is a good one, and that some of us who do have long experience have chosen them over the multi for reasons that are important to us? For instance, I could have purchased a ~42-45 foot cat for the same money that we paid for our 46 foot monohull. When Ann and I looked at all the factors, the mono fit our cruising style better than a cat. I don't believe that monos are about to become obsolete except in the minds of zealots. I do believe that multis will continue to be very popular in some sailing venues, and for inexperienced charterers to enjoy in benign charter areas. These beliefs don't seem at odds with the reality that I observe out here in the real cruising world.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:43   #96
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

Its a really good point, and one I tend to forget sometimes... 'cruising' is very much a subset of 'sailing'... I enjoy racing on mono's, but cruising is a whole 'nother thing. Thus I seek an affordable cat.
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Old 19-12-2012, 21:27   #97
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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G'Day ArtM,


For someone who doesn't even claim experience sailing/cruising either cats or monos, you sure seem to know a lot about the scene.
The point was that there is a lot of commentary and opposition that are based on NON cruising points - like the weekend sailors talking about how much they love the wind in their face and the spray over the bow, and could never understand why anyone would want to give that up to sail a catamaran.

If someone wants to make a point about why a monohull makes a better cruising boat, then I'd love to hear it. But to repeatedly mock the "sailing" experience of a catamaran because it doesn't race well compared to someone's weekend cruiser or lightweight trailor sailor is ridiculous.

I appreciate all the points of view and different aspects of sailing, but I find it mildly annoying when people make comparisons and points that irrelevant to the topic of conversation.
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Old 20-12-2012, 11:21   #98
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Originally Posted by ArtM
The point was that there is a lot of commentary and opposition that are based on NON cruising points - like the weekend sailors talking about how much they love the wind in their face and the spray over the bow, and could never understand why anyone would want to give that up to sail a catamaran.

If someone wants to make a point about why a monohull makes a better cruising boat, then I'd love to hear it. But to repeatedly mock the "sailing" experience of a catamaran because it doesn't race well compared to someone's weekend cruiser or lightweight trailor sailor is ridiculous.

I appreciate all the points of view and different aspects of sailing, but I find it mildly annoying when people make comparisons and points that irrelevant to the topic of conversation.
And we find it mildly irritating when someone doesn't acknowledge valid points on the other side of an argument, especially when they claim no real world experience. Yes, lack of heeling is nice. 4 foot versus 5-6 foot draft isn't significant in most cruising grounds but is nicer, admittedly. However, what about relative lack of payload capacity, jerkier motion tendency? Steering from behind a bulkhead on one side of boat, or isolated on a flybridge? Not ideal in my book.

And you wonder why some of us get irritated when you claim (with no experience) our choice of boat will be obsolete? Sorry my friend, I can enjoy a lot of sunsets on a bigger proven monohull for the price of an entry level cat while you stay busy fixing things.

I am beginning to think ArtM is trolling. Ashamed I got hooked!
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Old 20-12-2012, 12:44   #99
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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And we find it mildly irritating when someone doesn't acknowledge valid points on the other side of an argument, especially when they claim no real world experience.
But to be fair, this thread is (was?!) about cats vs cats. IIRC plenty of other threads on the cats vs monos topic - and some of them not even locked. probably .

........rather than folks derail this one, as it's been a while since we had a "live" one maybe give the Mods a Xmas pressie by starting a new cats vs monos thread?
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Old 20-12-2012, 12:47   #100
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But to be fair, this thread is (was?!) about cats vs cats. IIRC plenty of other threads on the cats vs monos topic - and some of them not even locked. probably .
True point- but we haven't even mentioned which one is better for carrying guns...
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Old 20-12-2012, 13:20   #101
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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G'Day ArtM,


For someone who doesn't even claim experience sailing/cruising either cats or monos, you sure seem to know a lot about the scene.

Your analogy of the tilting RV seems a bit strained to me because having done a bit of cruising in various monohulls your description misses on several counts. None the less, I'm not at all opposed to multihulls... I quite like many of their attributes, but I get irritated with the sort of blanket condemnation that you have been spouting for monohulls. Seems to me that you are amongst those "denegrating (sic) the cruising experience" of the majority of real world cruisers.

Why can't you see that for many, the monohull experience is a good one, and that some of us who do have long experience have chosen them over the multi for reasons that are important to us? For instance, I could have purchased a ~42-45 foot cat for the same money that we paid for our 46 foot monohull. When Ann and I looked at all the factors, the mono fit our cruising style better than a cat. I don't believe that monos are about to become obsolete except in the minds of zealots. I do believe that multis will continue to be very popular in some sailing venues, and for inexperienced charterers to enjoy in benign charter areas. These beliefs don't seem at odds with the reality that I observe out here in the real cruising world.

Cheers,

Jim
I have to point out that many of the criticisms of cat's come from people who have little or no experience in sailing them. While I'd suggest the majority of cat owners have previously owned monohulls, and CAN compare them from experience.

For myself, I've sailed, raced and lived on both types, and I enjoy sailing a cat more, and living on it far more.
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Old 20-12-2012, 14:08   #102
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pirate Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

Dead ones.....


Sorry could not resist....
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Old 20-12-2012, 14:16   #103
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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Dead ones.....
I dunno about that... they are pretty easy to swing that way!
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Old 20-12-2012, 16:30   #104
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Re: What are the Slowest Cats?

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Dead ones.....


Sorry could not resist....
This is a very good price on a slow cat...just sayin'
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Old 20-12-2012, 17:26   #105
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Re: What are the slowest cats?

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Coffin vs. Condo. I'd rather live in a smaller condo than a larger coffin, and also would rather anchor 30 ft from the beach than 30 yards

I've made, and have heard the same from others, the argument that in fact cats will make the monohulls redundant in the future, except in the racing classes where there will always be a class for antique boats.
I remember when people said the same about skis when snowboards hit the scene. Never happened, nor will it with boats. The cruising mono is here to stay. They have too many features that too many people find attractive, not the least of which is affordability. Like skis and snowboards, monos and multis are just 2 different ways of getting the job done.
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