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Old 27-03-2016, 18:46   #1
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What are the key points on a new cat

Ok I'm a mono guy but right now I'm traveling with several cats and I'm being exposed to lots of new info about cats.
Had a drink on a 49 ft Privilege,, looked it over and it seemed like a nice boat, finished quite well. We were invited to a party on a near new Lagoon 45, talk about space. My wife and I looked at each other and I could tell she was thinking our 42 ft mono was like a dinghy compared to this boat. We had around 25 people aboard and it wasn't even feeling crowded. The cockpit was massive and the living area was huge, heck you could probably sit 8 people at the helm. Anyways we have been talking about cats quite a bit and what we liked and didn't like. We have sailed with them although not the L45 so I don't know how it sailed but on the wind we sail at similar speeds and off the wind they are a little quicker but no more than 10 minutes after a 30 mile sail although that day there was not much downwind sailing which I'm told is their best point of sail. I'm assuming that there isn't a huge difference in sailing speed between cruising cats but I don't know for sure because the driver can make a big difference and maybe they were just taking it easy the day we sailed together.Both my wife and I asked ourselves why are people paying pretty big premiems for their cats when for a lot less money they could buy a Lagoon which is bigger than a small apartment back home. I would not want to be competing with Lagoon after spending an evening on that 45. So anyways what do you guys really look for when your making that buying decision and why isn't almost everyone buying a newer Lagoon??
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Old 27-03-2016, 20:02   #2
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Can be answered in 2 words:

Windward Performance.
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Old 27-03-2016, 20:16   #3
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Windward performance lacking or not Lagoon has sold more cats than any other company.
Everyone has different ideas of what they want, some galley up, some down, 4 cabin, 3 cabin etc, some like the slightly better performance of board boats, the lists go on and on. Some want a more robustly built boat, which compromises performance but gives gains in other areas, everything is a compromise. And yes not a huge difference in cruising cat speeds imhop,. Ive seen cats that topped out at 18 kts, avg 6 cruising. Our top speed was 12.5 and our avg was 5.5 over 1200 miles the last 2 months.

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Old 27-03-2016, 20:22   #4
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Ok I have to admit I really don't know how one boat compares to the other going to windward. We have PDQ's Lagoons and FP with us right now. I was always under the assumption that the cats with dagger boards were the higher pointing boats and the mini keel models were similar in performance but as I said, I don't know. Looking at the Lagoon 45 it does present a lot of surface to the wind compared to the other cats so I could see it having more leeway but is it so bad that folks like yourself choose to own something else. Neither my wife nor I had been on such a large cat and considering it was only 45 long it was a bit of a mind blower. I can see why they are so popular. Friends have a Lagoon 44, an older model and while it's nice the 45 makes it feel small.
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Old 27-03-2016, 20:24   #5
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Quote:
So anyways what do you guys really look for when your making that buying decision and why isn't almost everyone buying a newer Lagoon??
because some prefer Leopards, Antares, Privileges, Catanas, etc. etc. I don't know about the very newest of the Lagoons but 5 years ago I didn't like the helms on them compared to the Leopards, and I like the chined hull of the Leopard. I really love the Antares though, but I also know why everyone is not running to buy a new one of those.
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Old 27-03-2016, 20:35   #6
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

well how about that.. here ya go, right here on the forum: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...te-163519.html
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Old 27-03-2016, 20:47   #7
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Most people buy what they can afford. Budget can have a huge impact on the choices. There is no perfect boat.
Heres a list of things that make people end up liking or disliking and it can help in selecting a cat
Bridge deck clearance
Galley up or down
Verticle forward windows or sloping(big diff in heat)
2 head or 4
Berth placement . (High, low etc)
Helm placement( outside the cockpit in elements, fly bridge, or protected at the bulkhead,coachroof)
Dagger board vs LaR keels
Cored (Foam vs balsa vs ply)
Cored vs solid below wl
Diesels ,Shaft drive vs saildrive vs outboards
Head sail driven vs mainsail driven

Salon configuration
Can it sit on it's own keels or will it damage itself (beachable) yes some cannot handle their own weight.
What size tender can it handle.
Does the bridge deck pound a lot







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Old 27-03-2016, 21:04   #8
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

On the PDQ and the Privilege the galley was down in one hull. One of the gals said she wanted it that was because she felt very secure when she was working in it at sea and we mono people understand that but other cat guys tell us that they could put a glass of water on the table underway and it wouldn't spill a drop. We have been in the housing business our whole lives and understand the popularity of the open great room concept which in a small way is how the Lagoon is laid out but personally I have no idea what it is like in a cat preparing food while underway???
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Old 27-03-2016, 22:56   #9
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Robert,

My advice would be to charter one for a few days or a week. There is nothing like living with the tradeoffs to get a sense for how they really effect you.
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Old 28-03-2016, 06:09   #10
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Chartering is a good idea but we are full time cruisers and the costs to charter several different cats for a week each is not a little number. That said I'm going to try and do some ride swaps to at least get a bit of a sense.
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Old 28-03-2016, 09:13   #11
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

[QUOTE=cruisersfarm;2082745]Can be answered in 2 words:

Windward Performance.[/E]QUOT

Most cruising is off the wind
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Old 28-03-2016, 11:05   #12
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

[QUOTE=805gregg;2083109]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisersfarm View Post
Can be answered in 2 words:

Windward Performance.[/E]QUOT

Most cruising is off the wind

Totally agree. But even so, some cats do sail to wind pretty well. Our Voyage never has had an issue. We may be no quicker up wind than the typical monohull but we have always been loaded. Down/off wind we usually pull away.
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Old 28-03-2016, 14:08   #13
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisersfarm View Post
Can be answered in 2 words:

Windward Performance.
Or one word: Performance.

If these cat's are only maybe 10 minutes faster than a ~40' cruising mono over 30 miles, then for a cat', they are slow.

When we've sailed in company with similar length mono's we're much faster. For instance, more than 1 hour faster over 18 miles compared to our friend's Jeanneau 43, broad reaching in light (8-10knot) winds.

9 hours faster over 70 miles compared to a 40' centre cockpit cruising boat (no idea what design) again, reaching in 10-15 knot wind.

We're also significantly faster than most cruising cat's.
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Old 28-03-2016, 15:07   #14
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

The trend with most production cat's (and mono's too IMO) seems to be about cramming as much accommodation as possible into a given length.


This is great for chartering, where costs are likely shared among guests, so the more beds the better, and looks good at boat shows, but can only have a negative effect on performance.


With cat's it's cheap and easy to make the hulls longer. (At the design stage, not a retrofit) A longer boat will sail better, be more comfortable at sea, safer etc.


"But this 44 footer has no more space than a 38' Lagoon!" Yep, and it also weighs about 1/2 as much......
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Old 28-03-2016, 15:40   #15
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
why isn't almost everyone buying a newer Lagoon??
Because not everyone want's acres of space and mediocre performance. Dont get me wrong a lot of people do, but me I want a boat that goes to windward competently and eats the miles off the wind. And something that will sail in less than 10 knots of breeze. That doesn't necessarily mean dagger boards either BTW. I don't need 27 heads. The absolute key starting point for me is visibility, I need to be anywhere ain the Saloon/Cockpit /Helm and see virtually 360, that really cuts down on the market. The next is build quality, absolutely no tabbed in bulkheads for example. I don't need a boat bigger than my house.
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