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Old 28-03-2016, 15:47   #16
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Because not everyone want's acres of space and mediocre performance. Dont get me wrong a lot of people do, but me I want a boat that goes to windward competently and eats the miles off the wind. And something that will sail in less than 10 knots of breeze. That doesn't necessarily mean dagger boards either BTW. I don't need 27 heads. The absolute key starting point for me is visibility, I need to be anywhere ain the Saloon/Cockpit /Helm and see virtually 360, that really cuts down on the market. The next is build quality, absolutely no tabbed in bulkheads for example. I don't need a boat bigger than my house.
+1 A decent sized performance cat has more than enough room compared to its mono brethren. I don't really understand why anyone would need more, especially at the cost of seriously degraded performance.

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Old 28-03-2016, 15:58   #17
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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Can be answered in 2 words:

Windward Performance.
My experience so far overall around 10% slower VMG than equal length mono directly against wind, some conditions more (lumpy seas), some less, some cat does actually better. At 60 true cat equal, 60-90 true cat getting bit stronger, 90+ you laugh.

Traditionally monos drive against wind manually as there is noting else to do, and cats autopilot as one relaxes. That probably explains the difference. Skilled cat windward driving can be surprisingly fast, I observed.
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Old 28-03-2016, 16:10   #18
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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Because not everyone want's acres of space and mediocre performance. Dont get me wrong a lot of people do, but me I want a boat that goes to windward competently and eats the miles off the wind. And something that will sail in less than 10 knots of breeze. That doesn't necessarily mean dagger boards either BTW. I don't need 27 heads. The absolute key starting point for me is visibility, I need to be anywhere ain the Saloon/Cockpit /Helm and see virtually 360, that really cuts down on the market. The next is build quality, absolutely no tabbed in bulkheads for example. I don't need a boat bigger than my house.
just because lagoon packaged sailing plan with jib and gennaker vs single jib on other cats, it does not mean is sails bad under 10 kn. It only sails bad with standard jib.

It does pretty well with gennaker and favourably comes out vs comparable mono or cat. My experience lately is that our cat often sails when most monos motor.
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Old 28-03-2016, 19:13   #19
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Well, that didnt take long to degenerate into another cats vs monohull debate.

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Old 28-03-2016, 19:42   #20
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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Because not everyone want's acres of space and mediocre performance. Dont get me wrong a lot of people do, but me I want a boat that goes to windward competently and eats the miles off the wind. And something that will sail in less than 10 knots of breeze. That doesn't necessarily mean dagger boards either BTW. I don't need 27 heads. The absolute key starting point for me is visibility, I need to be anywhere ain the Saloon/Cockpit /Helm and see virtually 360, that really cuts down on the market. The next is build quality, absolutely no tabbed in bulkheads for example. I don't need a boat bigger than my house.
On a mono tabbed in bulkheads are as good as it gets, why not in a cat??
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Old 28-03-2016, 19:45   #21
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

I'm learning and am only interested in stuff about cats, I have lots of experience in mono's
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Old 28-03-2016, 22:46   #22
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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On a mono tabbed in bulkheads are as good as it gets, why not in a cat??

Cats have high torsional loads. Bulkheads, certainly the main structural ones like the mast beam and rear beam bulkheads, should be fully glassed in.

Every bulkhead on my boat is fully glassed in, on both sides. In reality this adds only a relatively small amount to the time taken to build the boat.
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Old 28-03-2016, 23:36   #23
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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SNIP

We had around 25 people aboard and it wasn't even feeling crowded.
SNIP

So anyways what do you guys really look for when your making that buying decision and why isn't almost everyone buying a newer Lagoon??
I am not sure I know 25 people I would want on my boat.

Well maybe if they were hot babes in bikinis.

On a more serious note there is another thread about Seawinds where the OP said he would change the layout so the aft cabin was more of a walk in pantry since the cabin was so small no one would want to sleep in it anyway. To a great extent what folks look for is related to what they expect to do with their boat; and that should not be confused with what they actually do with their boat.

You may want to try and figure out what you want to do with your boat. As an example I spent three months cruising West of Key West and used less than five gallons of gas, and some of that was in my inflatable going diving, or on shore in the DT. So those nice economical diesel engines that you can motor on for days at a time hold no attraction to me. On the other hand I completely understand why some folks like them.

There are a multitude of other things like that which have no right or wrong answer. It is more like picking horses for courses. The trick is you have to figure out which course you will be on.

You sorta said your wife liked how much room there was on the 45. Someone has to swab the decks and the more room there is on deck the more deck there is to swab. Big head sails can be great for performance, but can be a bear to deal with in some weather.

Unless you specify when, where, and how you expect to sail it is impossible for you to know which boat is best for you. And only you know the answers to those questions.
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Old 29-03-2016, 00:07   #24
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

It comes down to basic sales marketing dynamics , lagoon and FP have learnt very early in their designing that there the major factor in the decision process to buy, and then target this area

Most single men would not buy a lagoon or FP

Would love to see the marketing data on this .....
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Old 29-03-2016, 02:10   #25
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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Cats have high torsional loads. Bulkheads, certainly the main structural ones like the mast beam and rear beam bulkheads, should be fully glassed in.

Every bulkhead on my boat is fully glassed in, on both sides. In reality this adds only a relatively small amount to the time taken to build the boat.
As they should be on any good multi
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Old 29-03-2016, 04:47   #26
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

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As they should be on any good multi
Fully agree ,

It staggers belief that CE compliance certification for a cat is that it has to have an escape hatch in each hull but allows Builders to glue in bulkheads .... WTF?

Maybe I am just getting old and the new high tech glue they are using is now days stronger than titanium....
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Old 29-03-2016, 05:14   #27
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Gents, while at it can you please advise how it should be. See bulkhead near engine battery. Note I have no knowledge of bulkheads and no idea if glued or fully glassed or something in between. I take pictures regularly to see before and after.

This one has couple of reisins on each side of wood going up the wood surface around 10 cm and bonded to fiberglass hull. I dont see any glue.

So far I have not seen any cracked or displaced bulkhead

thks
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Old 29-03-2016, 06:07   #28
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

There are exceptions to everything but most cruisers aren't performance oriented...of course overall, the worst condomarans will match or beat your typical cruising monohull.
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Old 01-04-2016, 18:59   #29
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Re: What are the key points on a new cat

Had a good tour of a PDQ44 today and I came away very impressed. We really liked that boat and I liked the way it was built. That and the fact that the wind conditions were just right and they ran away from us at a pretty good clip. Really well designed for a cruising boat, not as good as a Lagoon as a party boat but I'd take the smaller PDQ with its really well planned storage and excellent build and finish quality. I also liked the lower boom and the ease getting to the mainsail.
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Old 01-04-2016, 19:07   #30
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pirate Re: What are the key points on a new cat

I guess the main reason not everyone's buying a Lagoon is the same as why everyones not buying a Bavaria, or a Hunter.. Bene.. IP.. whatever.. personal tastes..
Some hate the bridgedecks on the bigger models, or steering positions.. internal layouts.. or.. they can't afford one.. I like the 380's.. hate the 440.. ..

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