Weighing down performance cats

[css145hs]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

10kg (probably less) of barnacles slows us down more than 400kg of water + 300kg of fuel. Much more!

Very True!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Yep.

https://www.gunboat.com/gunboat68int...g2C7FmNimD_g10

Looks reasonably comfortable for a camper trailer. Not cheap though.

Wife says no.
Still climbing and crawling to get into bed.
IKEA interior doesn't work for her either, no at that price.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That was our plan but it had to have a well ventilated cabin with overhangs to keep sun off of glass and able to have windows open in the rain.
It also had to be big enough to have a cabin with walk around king size bed as the wife has had enough of climbing up into a bed and sleeping against bulkheads.
Not even sure if there is such a cat out there.
Whatever it was would also have to be able to carry a 15ft tender with a decent sized motor.

I soon realised I was looking for a very expensive unicorn.

Changed tack and went the way we did for a fraction of the cost and don't have to worry about overloading. She actually handles better with an extra several tonne on board.

Yeah I'm fascinated by your move to a trawler. I have a mental block about the big fuel numbers even though I understand the savings in not having a rig and sails to buy and maintain.

Re: your above requirements; as Alan posted, you're very much looking at the high end of the market in terms of a Gunboat or similar. Gunboats are custom boats so you can have whatever interior you like as opposed to an Ikea interior. Though I would build a custom boat cheaper than a Gunboat like Kato, the Schionning GForce 2000, or an Oram 60C, and add your overhangs and also some sort of tent/cover you can tie to the furler, shrouds etc and hoist with a halyard over the forward deck and nets. Keeps it shaded and cool and you can have all your hatches open in weather.

The issue remaining is still one of payload, however. Payload for the G-Force 2000 is listed at 3500kg. You've got no payload concerns now but what cruising speed/top speeds do you see on your trawler?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by tp12

Yeah I'm fascinated by your move to a trawler. I have a mental block about the big fuel numbers even though I understand the savings in not having a rig and sails to buy and maintain.

Fuel numbers are cheap when you take into account the low cost of entry vs a large performance cat.

Looking at that lagoon as an example, the difference in purchase price equates to about 50 years of upgrades, paid maintenance and diesel for us and we aint got that long left in us.

Also, given the size of its engines (2 x 125) and inefficiency of propellers, it would use about the same amount of fuel as us and yes, I realise a usual boat of that size would have engines closer to 80 x 2

Re: your above requirements; as Alan posted, you're very much looking at the high end of the market in terms of a Gunboat or similar. Gunboats are custom boats so you can have whatever interior you like as opposed to an Ikea interior. Though I would build a custom boat cheaper than a Gunboat like Kato, the Schionning GForce 2000

I wasn't realistically looking at any of them.
What I was looking at was a cat with a walk around king size bed and capable of carrying a fast 15ft tender and several months of gear yet not be loaded down.
Unfortunately, that meant stepping up into the 60+ ft range and still not really getting there and I doubt it would be easily sailed by a couple unless downhill on passage so the engines would get used quite a bit.

or an Oram 60C, and add your overhangs and also some sort of tent/cover you can tie to the furler, shrouds etc and hoist with a halyard over the forward deck and nets. Keeps it shaded and cool and you can have all your hatches open in weather.
The issue remaining is still one of payload, however. Payload for the G-Force 2000 is listed at 3500kg

Yep, there is the custom build option and we looked at that to but it still would have cost a considerable amount more than what we have and several years of our life.

Shade tents are not really an option, permanent shade is.
We have both been getting bits cut out from previous years under sail with less than adequate shading.

You've got no payload concerns now but what cruising speed/top speeds do you see on your trawler?

About the same speed that the too big to easily handle or to heavy to sail in light air so now motoring sailing cat goes at
7.5 knots at a fast idle is our speed for long range.
Current tankage should get us 3500nm

[Simi 60]

Oram 60c could have been a contender with some mods for sure.
I remember her when she was in RQYS, big chunk of boat.
Would love to see some numbers on her several years on.


https://www.boboramdesign.com/60c

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Fuel numbers are cheap when you take into account the low cost of entry vs a large performance cat.

It makes sense. The only consideration is ensuring you have the extra money over and above the purchase for fuel etc and considering the total number. I bet she goes to wind alright!

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Looking at that lagoon as an example, the difference in purchase price equates to about 50 years of upgrades, paid maintenance and diesel for us and we aint got that long left in us.

Also, given the size of its engines and inefficiency of propellers, it would use about the same amount of fuel as us.
I wasn't realistically looking at any of them.
What I was looking at was a cat with a walk around king size bed and capable of carrying a fast 15ft tender and several months of gear yet not be loaded down.
Unfortunately, that meant stepping up into the 60+ ft range and still not really getting there and I doubt it would be easily sailed easily by a couple so the engines would get used quite a bit.

Yep, there is the custom build option and we looked at that to but it still would have cost a considerable amount more than what we have and several years of our life.

Depending on your approach you can still spend a lot of money on a custom boat, for sure. There's cheaper ways of doing it but, as you say, you've still got the time factor and you've prioritised getting out there now. Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Shade tents are not really an option, permanent shade is.
We have both been getting bits cut out from previous years under sail with less than adequate shading.

At 43 I've already had two bits cut out but I think that approach will work for me. I'll mostly be in the shade while sailing and also at anchor. It's in the dinghy, in the water and ashore that I'd really need to worry about.

Originally Posted by Simi 60

About the same speed that the too big to easily handle or to heavy to sail in light air so now motoring sailing cat goes at
7.5 knots at a fast idle is our speed for long range.
Current tankage should get us 3500nm

Hahaha! Fair enough. I was really making the comparison because you appear to have moved between those two options and it also appears that a larger performance cruising cat was never really an option to meet your requirements. I know Alan (44C) has a recorded top speed of 24.8kts in his 44' boat and I imagine the G-Force 2000 could really rip along and perhaps much more comfortably sit in the 20s but in all the blogs I've read, the vlogs I've watched and the people whom I've spoken to who own fast boats it seems that people generally seem to be slowing their fast boats down for comfort on passages etc. For me, it would be good to have the option to put the foot down on occasion and also sail comfortably at lower speeds that may stress a different design. In my mind a parallel would be buying a large mid-large capacity motorbike. They can do the national speed limit in first gear and they have six gears so the opportunities to open them up are not frequent but they will also sit on legal speeds very comfortably without stressing anything. And they do better wheelies

7.5 knots is a decent cruising pace, though. Nothing wrong with that and quite a range you've got as well. Your choice to move to a trawler makes perfect sense to me and it sounds like you're very happy with it. You can carry quite a few toys on her as well, I'd imagine! And beer for that matter and that, for me, is a winner

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Oram 60c could have been a contender with some mods for sure.
I remember her when she was in RQYS, big chunk of boat.
Would love to see some numbers on her several years on.


https://www.boboramdesign.com/60c

Do you mean Drumbeat?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I've been discovering that what the weight is made of can make a huge difference to the impact on performance.

10kg (probably less) of barnacles slows us down more than 400kg of water + 300kg of fuel. Much more!

Edit: I'm sure we're all now waiting for someone to jump in and tell us how their Lagoon can carry 5T of barnacles with no change in performance.....

I guess you beg me for an answer, so here she is:

... They have huge storage locker, especially the big ones, so probably no issue to load 5T of barnacles and still moving decently, as long as they do not stick to the bottom.

Try this with a performance cat ;-)

[tp12]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I guess you beg me for an answer, so here she is:

... They have huge storage locker, especially the big ones, so probably no issue to load 5T of barnacles and still moving decently, as long as they do not stick to the bottom.

Try this with a performance cat ;-)

'Decently', for you, is still quite slow

You could probably cut off part of a performance cat and tow it behind you and still sail that slow

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by tp12

'Decently', for you, is still quite slow

You could probably cut off part of a performance cat and tow it behind you and still sail that slow

Yey, try this with a performance cat towing a lagoon behind

[tp12]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Yey, try this with a performance cat towing a lagoon behind

It would probably still be the fastest that Lagoon has ever gone

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by tp12

It would probably still be the fastest that Lagoon has ever gone

... if you can move it with all the barnacles inside

[tp12]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

... if you can move it with all the barnacles inside

Oh that's probably no problem

[44'cruisingcat]

I dunno. Lagoons are really fast. Until someone says put up or shut up.

You can hear a pin drop then...

[44'cruisingcat]

Hey Tony, want to come sailing in Lake Macquarie? I've scraped a lot of barneys off. Arsen missed his chance!