Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-06-2012, 07:41   #31
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,657
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Cooking with propane is inexpensive. As full time liveaboards using the stove and BBQ daily we spend about $50-$60 per year on propane. How does that compare to the expense of oil changes, diesel and wear and tear on the motors for a subpar form of heat. Also who wants to listen to a generator run in an anchorage as well as the fumes that are drifting down on your neighbors. I know I don't.
__________________

__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:20   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

I'm a boat builder not an electrician so forgive my questions if a bit doughy.

My understanding of batteries and charge rates tells me that charge ramps as batteries come up to full charge, i understand wind gens like a load to be constant to the extent that some use resistor banks whilst others use a 12 volt element in the HWS.

The hot water one does it for me, it makes sense as you are banking energy, i asked this question elsewhere and the info i was given caused me to find that most land based isolated systems like farmhouses fishing shacks etc do just this. So wind-gen's excess power will be so used.

A lot of the solar systems i see you could nearly weld with the current they produce, we are putting 810 watts of Kyocera Panels which will bring us to 1000 watts.

If the genset is needed to top up or make up for the shortfall then i don't see the issue, weather is variable anyway BUT we are heading the right way to cutting down fuel use.

Great replies so far, Thanks.
__________________

__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:37   #33
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Cooking with propane is inexpensive. As full time liveaboards using the stove and BBQ daily we spend about $50-$60 per year on propane. How does that compare to the expense of oil changes, diesel and wear and tear on the motors for a subpar form of heat. Also who wants to listen to a generator run in an anchorage as well as the fumes that are drifting down on your neighbors. I know I don't.
If you only ran the genset to cook, then you would have a very good point. But since nearly everyone runs the genset for other purposes (charge batts, make hot water, wash clothes, etc.), then the incremental amount of power used for cooking is going to be almost free.

A good quality double-soundproofed low-speed genset, like you will find onboard any boat which is considering electric cooking will be inaudible to others in the anchorage. I know mine is. I have forgotten and left it on when I was in the cockpit because you simply cannot tell it is running.

Besides, the OP has massive solar power so not really applicable here.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:41   #34
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
I have made the calculation and have lived on the boat for extended periods, the total daily consumption is 8 Kw including hot water and one hot meal in the evening while on anchor, 10 Kw while cruising , the solar panels and the wind generator can handle the 8 Kw on a average day with both for wind and sun, on shady days it becomes a mission but with right planning and having 16Kw in the batteries when full we manage ok cooking during the day with full sunshine helps
Wow, that's a massive amount of power (I assume you're talking about kilowatt-hours and not kW). I think I use about 2.5kW/h per day on my boat, and that's when I'm on board all day running the heat, charging multiple computers and phones, using various appliances, lighting, etc.

If you have enough solar to supply it, I guess nobody cares. I could not even begin to fit 1000 watts of solar like the OP has.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:44   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,432
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
..... marginal cost of an additional kWH of power is very small, given the high overhead of diesel gensets.
From the Northern Lights brochure for their 9kw genset.

1800 rpm at full load = 0.93gph (3.52lph)
1800 rpm at half load = 0.51gph (1.93lph)

0.42g for 1 hour of additional ~4kw @ Bahamian diesel price = $2.52US = $75/month to cook dinner (assuming that's the amount of power it takes to cook dinner).

The same in propane = ~$15.

Again, from a pure cost POV, cooking with electric on a boat has a fuel factor cost of ~3-4 vs. propane. And this doesn't take into account the upfront cost of additional photovoltaic, bigger battery banks, bigger inverters, bigger alternators, bigger chargers, additional fuel to simply carry all this 'bigger stuff'. The cost difference certainly isn't marginal when you have to build the system from scratch.

But there is the personal choice factor that humans amazingly use to justify things at any cost!

I have never been able to tell the difference in pasta cooked with electric and pasta cooked with gas, but that's probably just me!

YMMV
__________________
DotDun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:48   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Cooking with propane is inexpensive. As full time liveaboards using the stove and BBQ daily we spend about $50-$60 per year on propane. How does that compare to the expense of oil changes, diesel and wear and tear on the motors for a subpar form of heat. Also who wants to listen to a generator run in an anchorage as well as the fumes that are drifting down on your neighbors. I know I don't.
We have a Paguro 6000 it's in a sound shield in a cockpit locker, the Admirals washing machine makes more noise, we carry spares it is a very low hour unit, Kuboto engine parts common.
Dockhead is correct we still need to make water, wash clothes etc BUT we do these things at the same time, we live aboard full time and life goes on.
Our earlier liveaboards all had gas, this new one i bought is very diffently setup it's this we are coming to terms with.
Cheers Frank
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 08:52   #37
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Wow, that's a massive amount of power (I assume you're talking about kilowatt-hours and not kW). I think I use about 2.5kW/h per day on my boat, and that's when I'm on board all day running the heat, charging multiple computers and phones, using various appliances, lighting, etc.

If you have enough solar to supply it, I guess nobody cares. I could not even begin to fit 1000 watts of solar like the OP has.
Most power consumed is for cooking and hot water, a warm meal for 4 people 2 hot dishes consumes as much as 4500 watt a cooked breakfast is 1500 watt, the rest is for all other things on board and we are all electric , winches, tv , dvd , computer lighting hot water etc consume about 2.0 kW/h per day. If we are sailng we can generate up to 8 kW/h speed depending with 2 electric motors generating energy ( 13 knots speed but even at 7 knots we are able to generate about 1.0 kW/h
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:04   #38
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,657
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
If you only ran the genset to cook, then you would have a very good point. But since nearly everyone runs the genset for other purposes (charge batts, make hot water, wash clothes, etc.), then the incremental amount of power used for cooking is going to be almost free.
End of quote


Your style of cruising is way above mine! Never thought of having a washer dryer on board and we use a propane on demand heater when we heat water which is hardly ever. We never run a generator as our solar keeps up with all our loads.
I understand there are some really quiet generators, and I understand some people have to use them. What I don't care for is people running a generator all night upwind from me forcing their diesel fumes down my hatch as
I'm trying to sleep. Maybe people like this would be better of at the dock?
__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:06   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
From the Northern Lights brochure for their 9kw genset.

1800 rpm at full load = 0.93gph (3.52lph)
1800 rpm at half load = 0.51gph (1.93lph)

0.42g for 1 hour of additional ~4kw @ Bahamian diesel price = $2.52US = $75/month to cook dinner (assuming that's the amount of power it takes to cook dinner).

The same in propane = ~$15.

Again, from a pure cost POV, cooking with electric on a boat has a fuel factor cost of ~3-4 vs. propane. And this doesn't take into account the upfront cost of additional photovoltaic, bigger battery banks, bigger inverters, bigger alternators, bigger chargers, additional fuel to simply carry all this 'bigger stuff'. The cost difference certainly isn't marginal when you have to build the system from scratch.

But there is the personal choice factor that humans amazingly use to justify things at any cost!

I have never been able to tell the difference in pasta cooked with electric and pasta cooked with gas, but that's probably just me!

YMMV
Don't need to justify anything to anyone, this boat is setup this way i'm interested in comments either way, i've met a few long term cruisers here that have the same setup.
Money isn't the driver otherwise i'd be in a Tiki retying my rubber turnbuckles and going ashore to get wood for my cooking fire.
No this is interesting stuff and i find Fastcats comments VERY interesting, he is having ago at using a different system. I like it!

Cheers
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:11   #40
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
From the Northern Lights brochure for their 9kw genset.

1800 rpm at full load = 0.93gph (3.52lph)
1800 rpm at half load = 0.51gph (1.93lph)

0.42g for 1 hour of additional ~4kw @ Bahamian diesel price = $2.52US = $75/month to cook dinner (assuming that's the amount of power it takes to cook dinner).

The same in propane = ~$15.

Again, from a pure cost POV, cooking with electric on a boat has a fuel factor cost of ~3-4 vs. propane. And this doesn't take into account the upfront cost of additional photovoltaic, bigger battery banks, bigger inverters, bigger alternators, bigger chargers, additional fuel to simply carry all this 'bigger stuff'. The cost difference certainly isn't marginal when you have to build the system from scratch.

But there is the personal choice factor that humans amazingly use to justify things at any cost!

I have never been able to tell the difference in pasta cooked with electric and pasta cooked with gas, but that's probably just me!

YMMV
Well, I doubt if you will be using 4kW of power continuously for one hour to cook, especially not with an induction stove. Burners on low are using just a couple hundred watts. And if the incremental power is 1/2 load versus 1/4 load, then this looks really different.

So YMMV indeed -- it really depends on the specific numbers. If you are doing a whole lot of cooking on the stove, and especially if it's more than once a day, then of course, propane starts to look better.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:15   #41
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Quote:
If you only ran the genset to cook, then you would have a very good point. But since nearly everyone runs the genset for other purposes (charge batts, make hot water, wash clothes, etc.), then the incremental amount of power used for cooking is going to be almost free.
End of quote


Your style of cruising is way above mine! Never thought of having a washer dryer on board and we use a propane on demand heater when we heat water which is hardly ever. We never run a generator as our solar keeps up with all our loads.
I understand there are some really quiet generators, and I understand some people have to use them. What I don't care for is people running a generator all night upwind from me forcing their diesel fumes down my hatch as
I'm trying to sleep. Maybe people like this would be better of at the dock?
We don't have AC and don't run the genset at night. The genset usually gets run for a couple of hours around dinner time, which is peak power demand time. No one notices it, and it also doesn't produce any fumes that anyone can smell. It has a water lift muffler so there is no splashing of water out the exhaust, either. It is much quieter than diesel-fired central heating (Webasto, Espar type).

Hot water and clean clothes are truly wonderful things on board. You should try it sometime! I have up to 8 people on board at times so these are hardly luxuries!
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:29   #42
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,657
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
We don't have AC and don't run the genset at night. The genset usually gets run for a couple of hours around dinner time, which is peak power demand time. No one notices it, and it also doesn't produce any fumes that anyone can smell. It has a water lift muffler so there is no splashing of water out the exhaust, either. It is much quieter than diesel-fired central heating (Webasto, Espar type).

Hot water and clean clothes are truly wonderful things on board. You should try it sometime! I have up to 8 people on board at times so these are hardly luxuries!
We have hot water and clean clothes aboard we just go about it a diffrent way.
Never met a diesel generator that didn't put out smelly fumes. What is done to make yours diffrent?
__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 09:56   #43
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

It all depends on the meal being cooked, Pasta Bolognaise will use no more than 1000 watt but if we go for a real 3 course meal 4 Kw is about what we use, the nice part is that the sun and wind supply almost all the energy needed to do all on board, in 2 years and about 16000 NM we have used the generator less then 100 hours.
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 10:01   #44
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
It all depends on the meal being cooked, Pasta Bolognaise will use no more than 1000 watt but if we go for a real 3 course meal 4 Kw is about what we use, the nice part is that the sun and wind supply almost all the energy needed to do all on board, in 2 years and about 16000 NM we have used the generator less then 100 hours.
I guess you mean 1000 watt/hours and 4kW/hours -- right?

That's a ton of power . . . ok if you're in a sunny area and have tons of solar, but that wouldn't be so good on my boat.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2012, 10:06   #45
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,764
Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
We have hot water and clean clothes aboard we just go about it a diffrent way.
Never met a diesel generator that didn't put out smelly fumes. What is done to make yours diffrent?
My main engine puts out smelly, smoky fumes. You wouldn't want to be downwind of it. But my Kohler genset exhaust is completely smoke-free, and I have never smelled it. It's a matter of lean burning and good fuel injection, I guess. Besides it's a very small engine -- only 10 horsepower I think -- so the volume of exhaust is very small. I have never had a single complaint about it; it helps that it is absolutely inaudible from the outside, inside a sound enclosure which in turn is inside a soundproofed engine room.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cooking, electric

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.