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Old 21-06-2012, 14:47   #16
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
We have a similar setup, electric stove/oven with a huge microwave with built in inverter. At first I thought it would be the first piece of gear we would replace, but we too have begun to see the merits of this system. We have over 2500 amp hours in our banks, and the genny has yet to fail me. With both solar and wind as well as the genny, and using the mic a lot which is slightly more efficient, it is starting to make sense. So far my dislikes are the much lower cooking temps, and the fact that our Princess can only run either the 3-burner range or the stove, but not both at once. I'm perfectly happy to be less efficient and pay a little more for fuel if it means no propane on the boat. With 450 gallons of diesel tankage and a just overhauled diesel genny I think it will do fine. You would have to lose both genset and main engine to lose all charging power (at least we would), and at that point you may have larger concerns than cooking!
Good points we are tending to agree, it's just such an out of the square system compared to what we have had.
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Old 21-06-2012, 14:48   #17
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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We had all electric "Miele" stuff when we bought Gilana. No gas on Lloyds 100/a1. One of the first things we did was change to gas. Never regretted that decision. We carry 3 Worthington Ally cylinders. We refill them ourselves from whatever the locals use. We like the gas more. We do know many all electric cooking boats. Gas works out cheaper as it is more efficient. Everything on a boat is a compromise between this on the one hand and that on the other.....
Aint that the truth!
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Old 21-06-2012, 15:00   #18
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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Lagoons come with the locker, pipe and certificate as a standard issue, this owner opted to not connect and installed electric.
At the end of the day the redundancy that we have in the invertor driving the microwave etc the cobb the bbq all those things defuse the problems of the genset becoming unreliable.
If you have the option to use both gas and electric on your boat that's ideal. Some boats set up for electric cannot function satisfactorily without a working genset and this situation is poor in IMHO. These boats often divert vast distances and wait long periods of great crusing weather trying to get their problems solved.
The difficulty getting complex systems fixed in a country that does not speak the same language and where "It will arrive tomorrow" means 3 months if your lucky is often lost on people deciding how to equipe their boat.
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Old 21-06-2012, 15:53   #19
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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You would have to lose both genset and main engine to lose all charging power (at least we would), and at that point you may have larger concerns than cooking!
The main engine will charge the batteries, but would it supply enough run the electric cooking?

If the main engine has to run for several hours a day to replace the power used in cooking this means the boat is dependent on viabiable generator.

If you can set your boat up so that it can function adequately for months at a time without a working generator you will be a far happier, and more successful cruiser.

This can be accomplished with the option for gas cooking if the generator fails or two generators, as used on larger boats, but if you want to use electric cooking with solar, wind and running the main engine you are need to be prepared for longer engine run time than most people would tolerate on a sailboat.
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Old 21-06-2012, 16:15   #20
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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The main engine will charge the batteries, but would it supply enough run the electric cooking?

If the main engine has to run for several hours a day to replace the power used in cooking this means the boat is dependent on viabiable generator.

If you can set your boat up so that it can function adequately for months at a time without a working generator you will be a far happier, and more successful cruiser.

This can be accomplished with the option for gas cooking if the generator fails or two generators, as used on larger boats, but if you want to use electric cooking with solar, wind and running the main engine you are need to be prepared for longer engine run time than most people would tolerate on a sailboat.

My main has a large aftermarket altenator and actually puts out slightly more juice than my genset, which is 7.5 Kw. I too have much redundancy, including a Cobb cooker and a large Dickinson rail BBQ which is propane. It has a propane tank mounted on the outboard rail across from it, or can take small "camping" tanks screwed right into it, so although I do have propane aboard for it, it is barely aboard. No propane in compartments or inside the boat anywhere, only on rail mount. No propane fittings or plumbing to leak other than the one external hose to the BBQ, and the main tank shutoff valve is right there, so you don't need to rely on a solenoid.
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Old 21-06-2012, 16:32   #21
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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My main has a large aftermarket altenator and actually puts out slightly more juice than my genset, which is 7.5 Kw. .
An alternator multiple alternators that put out in the order of 750 A is very unusual.
Over a 100w they generally need 2 belts and alternators struggle to put out their rated output even at full revs. So your engine would need 4 x 200 w large case alternators each with 2 belts !!. If you mean your battery charger is limited in output when the generator is running a larger battery charger may be worthwhile.

Glad you have reduancy. I think that is most important thing. Can you manage ( resonably happily) if your generator fails for a couple of months. If the answer is yes your system is fine.
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Old 21-06-2012, 16:41   #22
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

i run a 3.5 kw 240v genset off my main engine as a back up genset,at 35 kgs it is a dammsight lighter than loading up on batteries,so you have redundancy on a catamaran
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Old 21-06-2012, 16:52   #23
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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An alternator multiple alternators that put out in the order of 750 A is very unusual.
Over a 100w they generally need 2 belts and alternators struggle to put out their rated output even at full revs. So your engine would need 4 x 200 w large case alternators each with 2 belts !!. If you mean your battery charger is limited in output when the generator is running a larger battery charger may be worthwhile.

Glad you have reduancy. I think that is most important thing. Can you manage ( resonably happily) if your generator fails for a couple of months. If the answer is yes your system is fine.

No, no, no. My genset outputs 7.5 Kw AC 110, which powers a battery charger at something like 80 amp. But my main has a high output alternator that puts out more like 110 amp. I intend to add an alternator to the genset as well, because it needs to charge at a much higher rate to keep up with our needs without running either genset or engine for about 3 hours a day. The whole system does require you to put a little more thought into how and when you cook. I think we'd do fine without the genset as is, when we are cruising we often motor a fair amount daily anyway. Living long term on the hook is definitely going to require some tweeks for us. But I think with an alternator added to the genset we will be in pretty good shape. If we end up hating it we'll go with propane instead as we originally planned. We inherited the whole system and wouldn't have built it this way ourselves, but as I said it's starting to grow on me. At first I hated how long it takes to boil a pot of water compared to propane, which I have lived with aboard my last boat for many years. But then I realized the microwave will do it in half the time without using much juice at all, comparatively speaking, and since it has a built in inverter I don't even have to turn that on. Just requires different approaches to cooking and a little forethought. We definitely use the rail BBQ a lot.
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Old 21-06-2012, 17:22   #24
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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No, no, no. My genset outputs 7.5 Kw AC 110, which powers a battery charger at something like 80 amp. But my main has a high output alternator that puts out more like 110 amp. .
Your generator is cappable of putting out at lot more amps into system. 7.5 kw = 500+ A @ 13 v. When you are running AC appliances like electric cooking, a lot of this power will go to driving the cooking. The remainder will feed your 80A battery charger to charge the the DC system.
With 110 A alternator you only have 1.3 Kw available (probably much less at low revs)

If you can manage on your engine alone you have have reduancy and will not spend time waiting for generator repairs

There is a big diffence between the electrical output of you generator and your main engine.

You will have to run your main engine much longer to replace the energy for cooking than when using your generator.
The main engine time, in the event of a generator breakdown is likely to be unacceptably long unless you restrict the electric cooking to heating simple meals in the microwave.
Viable gas cooking options ( like a BBQ ) will be necessary in the event of failure of the generator.
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Old 21-06-2012, 22:59   #25
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

Minaret you are set up very similar to us, our goal now is to boost the solar, add wind and get some good instrumentation/management systems on the power so we can manage it best.

Gas on the BBQ keeping the bottles outside, using them when available is good logic.
Thinking back to our house we just sold probably near half our hot meals were cooked on COBB or BBQ anyway. It's the tea/coffee constant that remains the same.

Redundancy on the alternator is the inverter system, we wouldn't stop cruising and wait we would more modify our eating habits for the time being and get parts delivered to a place further down the course.

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Old 22-06-2012, 06:46   #26
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

The GreenCats we produce are equipped with a electric hob ( induction ) and electric hot air oven/microwave, no gas on board, The kichen is equipped with a quooker a small boiling water heater that always delivers 100 degrees water. we use Victron Quattro inverters that run of 24 volts lithium batteries 700 Amp ( 80 % usable ) The setup is working well and not having to source all type of connections to fill gas bottles is also a pre. not having gas on board is a pleasure
The batteries are topped up with 6 solar panels ( 1600 Wp ) a mast head mounted eclectic D 400 wind generator and while sailing thru regeneration from the electric motors, in worst case scenario we can start the diesel generator in order to cook but over the last 2 years on my Personal boat we did not have to , all in all a success on board.
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Old 22-06-2012, 06:50   #27
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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The GreenCats we produce are equipped with a electric hob ( induction ) and electric hot air oven/microwave, no gas on board, The kichen is equipped with a quooker a small boiling water heater that alwasy delivers 100 degrees water. we use Victron Quattro inverters that run of 24 volts lithium batteries 700 Amp ( 80 % usable ) The setup is working well and not having to source all type of connections to fill gas bottles is also a pre. not having gas on board is a pleasure
The batteries are topped up with 6 solar panels ( 1600 Wp ) a mast head mounted eclectic D 400 wind generator and while sailing thru regeneration from the electric motors, in worst case scenario we can start the diesel generator in order to cook but over the last 2 years on my Personal boat we did not have to , all in all a success on board.
Now that i do like....Nice
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Old 22-06-2012, 06:59   #28
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

I like the idea of electric cooking very much. Gas on board might be efficient, might be pleasant to cook on, but it's another fuel to have to keep, it is an entire additional system to maintain and repair, and besides all that it is bloody dangerous.

The key question is not the peak current draw, but the daily consumption in amp/hours, isn't it? I spend weeks at a time living on board on my mooring with no shore power, and I find running the microwave, kettle and toaster off my inverter to have a very small effect on the daily power budget. I guess cooktop cooking is going to be a lot more amp hours because the burners are used for a much longer period, but it's an objective question -- can be calculated. If the calculated amount is manageable on a daily basis based on your daily routine and ability of your charging systems -- then why not? The lack of thermal efficiency compared to gas is in all liklihood going to be irrelevant, since you will probably be doing a genenerator run while cooking the evening meal anyway, and marginal cost of an additional kWH of power is very small, given the high overhead of diesel gensets.

As to being more genset dependent -- yes, but you need power in any case. If your genset is down you've got problems whether or not you cook electrically, and you have a temporary way to solve it in any case -- running the main engine -- whether you cook electrically or not doesn't make a huge difference.

I think electric cooking is a great idea. I don't see any big drawbacks to it, and eliminating the gas system and attendant danger is a huge plus.
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Old 22-06-2012, 07:27   #29
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

I just found out that a guy in Holland produces special LPG filling nipples so you just visit an LPG gas station and fill up your gasbottle. Which means that at any station that sell LPG to passenger cars you can charge your bottle.

As one said already, it is a matter of what you are willing to spend.
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Old 22-06-2012, 07:38   #30
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Re: We Have No Gas Cooking Just Electric, Anyone Else Set up This Way? Thoughts???

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I like the idea of electric cooking very much. Gas on board might be efficient, might be pleasant to cook on, but it's another fuel to have to keep, it is an entire additional system to maintain and repair, and besides all that it is bloody dangerous.

The key question is not the peak current draw, but the daily consumption in amp/hours, isn't it? I spend weeks at a time living on board on my mooring with no shore power, and I find running the microwave, kettle and toaster off my inverter to have a very small effect on the daily power budget. I guess cooktop cooking is going to be a lot more amp hours because the burners are used for a much longer period, but it's an objective question -- can be calculated. If the calculated amount is manageable on a daily basis based on your daily routine and ability of your charging systems -- then why not? The lack of thermal efficiency compared to gas is in all liklihood going to be irrelevant, since you will probably be doing a genenerator run while cooking the evening meal anyway, and marginal cost of an additional kWH of power is very small, given the high overhead of diesel gensets.

As to being more genset dependent -- yes, but you need power in any case. If your genset is down you've got problems whether or not you cook electrically, and you have a temporary way to solve it in any case -- running the main engine -- whether you cook electrically or not doesn't make a huge difference.

I think electric cooking is a great idea. I don't see any big drawbacks to it, and eliminating the gas system and attendant danger is a huge plus.
I have made the calculation and have lived on the boat for extended periods, the total daily consumption is 8 Kw including hot water and one hot meal in the evening while on anchor, 10 Kw while cruising , the solar panels and the wind generator can handle the 8 Kw on a average day with both for wind and sun, on shady days it becomes a mission but with right planning and having 16Kw in the batteries when full we manage ok cooking during the day with full sunshine helps
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