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Old 16-01-2015, 08:18   #106
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

Thanks for the link Peter. That's an excellent article and gives a lot on information to fill in the questions on this thread. I really think anyone questioning the wind speeds should ask themselves if they really think the first mate is lying when she calls out "60 knots of wind" at minute 2:40 of the video.


It's also very interesting that they were using just anchor line with knots as the drogue. That follows along with what delivery skippers told me coming from SA to St. Maarten with Leopards. They never carry premade drogues. One said that tying chain to the end with a fender to keep it floating was the best. Kudo's to the crew!
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Old 16-01-2015, 09:32   #107
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Again Polex I know that but perhaps that you did not know that the now Team Australia, the 60ft old ORMA class came out to Australia and was sailed for a while with the Banque Populair name and badges for a while.
Yes I know...a long time ago
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Old 16-01-2015, 09:41   #108
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
...

But I digress, getting back to the video, I am glad you are not saying that a typical production, mass-market, 50 foot monohull, loaded for cruising, is apt to be a more comfortable and stable sail downwind than a 39 foot cat in the conditions exhibited.

Brad
No, I was not saying that and I was replying to someone else regarding general comfort and sea motion and not only downwind sailing. Beam is very important to diminish roll and to stability downwind and regarding that multihulls size for size have more beam than monohulls. The second best choice in what regards easiness and comfort are modern cruising beamy monohulls with all beam pulled aft and also with two rudders.

In fact some cats and some monohulls of the same size have not very far beams. Take for instance the Gemini 35 with a beam of 4.27m and the Pogo 36 with a beam of 4.00m.
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Old 16-01-2015, 09:45   #109
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
....

It's also very interesting that they were using just anchor line with knots as the drogue. That follows along with what delivery skippers told me coming from SA to St. Maarten with Leopards. They never carry premade drogues. One said that tying chain to the end with a fender to keep it floating was the best. Kudo's to the crew!
Yes, that was what looked to me (not a drogue) and that confirms that cats or light modern monohulls can pass without a drogue. If they were using a drogue they would be going too slow and the waves would be hitting the transom. They are going at the right speed in my opinion.
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Old 16-01-2015, 11:32   #110
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

Not sure if this was already posted, but here are the details on the video from the OP:

Cape Town to Brisbane through the Southern Ocean winter on a Leopard39,
64 days non-stop, 65kts+ winds.
Biggest (fastest) surf: 34kts
Skipper: Kenneth Hoiem
1st Mate: Carolina Deseta
Crew: Liam Ferreira

"we just used a 300' anchor warp with a big bight at the end and adjusted the amount of drag by the size of the bight. Had to be careful not to slow down too much as the swell would then slam into the cockpit. The warp was surprisingly easy to retrieve once things slowed down a little."
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Old 16-01-2015, 11:40   #111
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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No, I was not saying that and I was replying to someone else regarding general comfort and sea motion and not only downwind sailing. Beam is very important to diminish roll and to stability downwind and regarding that multihulls size for size have more beam than monohulls. The second best choice in what regards easiness and comfort are modern cruising beamy monohulls with all beam pulled aft and also with two rudders.

In fact some cats and some monohulls of the same size have not very far beams. Take for instance the Gemini 35 with a beam of 4.27m and the Pogo 36 with a beam of 4.00m.
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Old 16-01-2015, 13:07   #112
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Yawn.
Yes your Avatar name is well choosen. There is something Wrong with you if you fell asleep like that.
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Old 16-01-2015, 13:34   #113
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

Polux, give it up man. Your looking like a fool (tool?) to 99.999% of the forum and the .001 is you. Save yourself for another day.
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Old 16-01-2015, 13:42   #114
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Again, it was not me that posted about the Maxi trimaran Banque Populaire making 41K. I posted about Ragamuffin doing 38k to show that the difference in max speed between the fastest multihull and one that is fast but not the fastest of monohulls is not meaningfull. It was obvious that I was not comparing it with that cat making 8k but with the Maxi trimaran doing 41k.

.
Of course, this is absolute rubbish. BP is holding a steady 40-42 kts, Ragamuffin BRIEFLY touched 38, mostly around 30. Also BP was clearly in lighter wind.


The difference is huge. 240+ miles per day.


And what that had to do with the original post completely eludes me.
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Old 16-01-2015, 13:49   #115
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Of course, this is absolute rubbish. BP is holding a steady 40-42 kts, Ragamuffin BRIEFLY touched 38, mostly around 30. Also BP was clearly in lighter wind.


The difference is huge. 240+ miles per day.


And what that had to do with the original post completely eludes me.
Waves. Big waves. Wind. Big wind. Not a longwinded debate about multi-hulls. Or, multi-hulls vs mono-hulls.
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Old 16-01-2015, 16:01   #116
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Of course, this is absolute rubbish. BP is holding a steady 40-42 kts, ...Ragamuffin BRIEFLY touched 38, mostly around 30.

The difference is huge. 240+ miles per day.

...
Palarran Who is the fool? me?

Are you saying that Trimaran can make 40K for 24 hours? it seems like that from that difference in 24 hours, but you should know that is not possible.

Steady 40-42K? You could at least read the subtitle on the video if you don't know about the performance of a Max trimaran like Banque Populaire. 41K is a truly exceptional speed that cannot be maintained for long. If they have done 42K they would be talking about 42 and not 41K.

They say on the movie subtitle:" Pascal Bidégorry and his crew share an incredible run at 41 knots aboard Banque Poupulaire V" On the movie (on the instrument) they show the moment where the boat is hitting 41.35k, that is a moment, before it was sailing at 40K. If they were doing 42K certainly they would have took the opportunity to show that.

Regarding average speed a 36k average is a very good performance for this type of boats over that is really exceptional.

Never said that monohulls here faster (quite the opposite) but if we compare the speed of the fastest trimaran with the one of the fastest monohull (Comanche) the difference in max speed should be around 6K. That's the only point I was making: putting things on the real world without exagerating
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Old 16-01-2015, 16:51   #117
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Palarran Who is the fool? me?

Are you saying that Trimaran can make 40K for 24 hours? it seems like that from that difference in 24 hours, but you should know that is not possible.

Steady 40-42K? You could at least read the subtitle on the video if you don't know about the performance of a Max trimaran like Banque Populaire. 41K is a truly exceptional speed that cannot be maintained for long. If they have done 42K they would be talking about 42 and not 41K.

They say on the movie subtitle:" Pascal Bidégorry and his crew share an incredible run at 41 knots aboard Banque Poupulaire V" On the movie (on the instrument) they show the moment where the boat is hitting 41.35k, that is a moment, before it was sailing at 40K. If they were doing 42K certainly they would have took the opportunity to show that.

Regarding average speed a 36k average is a very good performance for this type of boats over that is really exceptional.

Never said that monohulls here faster (quite the opposite) but if we compare the speed of the fastest trimaran with the one of the fastest monohull (Comanche) the difference in max speed should be around 6K. That's the only point I was making: putting things on the real world without exagerating
Polex,

In your words in the real world whilst Commanche may be faster downwind than Wild Oats it may not be faster upwind. In any event it was not the fastest boat in the recent Sydney to Hobart.
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Old 16-01-2015, 16:55   #118
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

Ah another thread that's lost the plot I think it is irrelevant what a yacht can do or not be it mono or multi but how those who sail them prepare for the conditions they face and I know what it is like to sail in southern ocean and having spent time sailing out of lakes entrance and Port Welshpool (20 yrs ) and working on bass strait oil rigs for 15 yrs there has been many a time neither type of yacht would be fit for sailing there and I would never ever use a Drouge on a mono hull
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Old 16-01-2015, 17:00   #119
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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No, I was not saying that and I was replying to someone else regarding general comfort and sea motion and not only downwind sailing. Beam is very important to diminish roll and to stability downwind and regarding that multihulls size for size have more beam than monohulls. The second best choice in what regards easiness and comfort are modern cruising beamy monohulls with all beam pulled aft and also with two rudders.

In fact some cats and some monohulls of the same size have not very far beams. Take for instance the Gemini 35 with a beam of 4.27m and the Pogo 36 with a beam of 4.00m.
Nobody in their right mind would consider taking a Gemini 35 from SA to Sydney in the southern ocean. Most do not consider it a bluewater cat despite at least one having traversed some oceans.

Whilst you obviously consider a Pogo 36 suitable for such a voyage I know few would consider raising a Gemini 35 as a valid comparison. It beam is just one of the reasons it is not a bluewater vessel.

I am by no means suggesting the Gemini is not a useful vessel for what it has been designed for but it was never designed for southern ocean conditions.
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Old 16-01-2015, 17:12   #120
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Palarran Who is the fool? me?

Are you saying that Trimaran can make 40K for 24 hours? it seems like that from that difference in 24 hours, but you should know that is not possible.

Steady 40-42K? You could at least read the subtitle on the video if you don't know about the performance of a Max trimaran like Banque Populaire. 41K is a truly exceptional speed that cannot be maintained for long. If they have done 42K they would be talking about 42 and not 41K.
So you're saying the mono can sail at 30 knots for 24 hours?

By 40-42 kts I meant the speed was BETWEEN 40 and 42 knots. As it was.

And Banque Populaire averaged 33 knots across the Atlantic. What's the fastest monohull average?

Come to that, BP sailed round the world non-stop in 45 days 13 hours... what's the monohull non-stop RTW record? Have they managed an 80 dayer yet?
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