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Old 10-07-2016, 17:31   #91
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Although I guess it could have occured in an area not able to be recorded and they were hit with 80 knotts all of a sudden
No one has found the sail area for the boat but it looks pretty large and only weighs 5t, I could imagine it wouldn't need 80k to flip on a beam reach with boards down (maybe they even had the leeward board down??).

So it was 20ish around mountains, a 40 or 50k gust wouldn't be too surprising and that is a lot of wind.
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Old 10-07-2016, 17:38   #92
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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So, has anyone found this disturbing?
It is disturbing that someone made a mistake, I was under the impression that humans were infallible. Damn I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight !
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Old 10-07-2016, 19:21   #93
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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No one has found the sail area for the boat but it looks pretty large and only weighs 5t, I could imagine it wouldn't need 80k to flip on a beam reach with boards down (maybe they even had the leeward board down??).

So it was 20ish around mountains, a 40 or 50k gust wouldn't be too surprising and that is a lot of wind.
I'm not sure where you are getting the figures from.

Does this help?

From BWR AOMR rating . Measured weight is 5334 kg (2011). So probably well up over 6 tons in family sailing trim. Sail area main 67.5m2 jib 28m2.

We are not sure if a headsail was set, but a friend said they had a full main and were moving slowly in not a whole lot of pressure when they spotted them earlier.

It looks like the archillies heel of catamarans , Wind gusts, bought about their demise.

The old adage for catamarans, "reef for the gusts" is sometimes a little hard to
adhere to when all the monohulls are "reefed for the lulls" and sailing circles around you.
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Old 10-07-2016, 19:32   #94
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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And honestly, the mere fact that it made a solo round Australia record, whilst impressive is not evidence of it being a vessel soundly designed for Ocean crossings.
I do not want to participate in this pointless discussion, but I would point out that Bruce sailed this boat over the Tasman to NZ and back where he sailed often in 40+. Do not look to the boat for answers.
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Old 10-07-2016, 19:51   #95
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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But you are participating none the less. And what is wrong with any of us asking to understand how this happened?
How it happened is simple. The crew f***ed up. As is the case in the vast majority of capsizes, sinkings etc.
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:08   #96
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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But you are participating none the less. And what is wrong with any of us asking to understand how this happened?
How did this happen?

Good question.

Contrary to the "urban myths" peddled by the "multihull evangelists" catamarans require skill, forethought, concentration, experience and a little luck, to keep from capsizing.

speaking from the viewpoint of one who has owned a few over the years .

I certainly have never recommended to any of my non-sailing, inexperienced friends that a catamaran is for them when sought out for advice on a cruising boats suitability.

The French catamaran builders who come in for a far amount of ribbing regarding their boats performance, understand this situation perfectly.
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:12   #97
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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How did this happen?

Good question.

Contrary to the "urban myths" peddled by the "multihull evangelists" catamarans require skill, forethought, concentration and experience to keep from capsizing.

speaking from the viewpoint of one who has owned a few over the years .

I certainly have never recommended to any of my non-sailing, inexperienced friends that a catamaran is for them when sought out for advice on a cruising boats suitability.

The French catamaran builders who come in for a far amount of ribbing regarding their boats performance, understand this situation perfectly.
Thank you Seaslug. I appreciate your response.
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:21   #98
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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question.


And secondly, as the article below claims and as many in the others in another CF thread have also claimed, big Cat's are designed to have their rigs give way before reaching a point of flipping. Is this correct?

]

No this is not correct. The rig should not blow over the side. A mast failure can be deadly. Recent logged incidents bare this out.

This was however once accepted wisdom on this very forum and possibly got traction from the early days of the very large and very heavy Sydney Harbour sailing catamarans.

Worth noting though ,Rustic. that some who repeatedly post in the multihull forum have learn't everything they know and tout as experience, from these very threads so possibly best to use the ignore function for a more pleasant experience.
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:24   #99
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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How did this happen?

Good question.

Contrary to the "urban myths" peddled by the "multihull evangelists" catamarans require skill, forethought, concentration, experience and a little luck, to keep from capsizing.

speaking from the viewpoint of one who has owned a few over the years .

I certainly have never recommended to any of my non-sailing, inexperienced friends that a catamaran is for them when sought out for advice on a cruising boats suitability.

The French catamaran builders who come in for a far amount of ribbing regarding their boats performance, understand this situation perfectly.
And yet year after year, dozens, maybe hundreds of cats sail across the Whitsunday passage in 30+ knot beam winds, often under full sail, often with strong tides against the wind, in the hands of very inexperienced crews, and somehow stay upright?
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:28   #100
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

It was at about this point in the thread about the loss of the Anna between Niue and Tonga a while back, that Evans Starzinger suggested the use of a "fuse", that the attachment for the clew to the outhaul be made to give way at a pre-determined wind strength. No reason to lose the whole rig. Seemed like a good concept to me. Easy to rig and easy to replace.

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Old 10-07-2016, 20:31   #101
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

On the subject of the wind strengths off Kangaroo Pt., all I can say for sure is that we have caught strong puffs there in strong northerly conditions. The BoM anemometer for Hobart, I think is out near the airport, not right along the Derwent.

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Old 10-07-2016, 20:34   #102
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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It was at about this point in the thread about the loss of the Anna between Niue and Tonga a while back, that Evans Starzinger suggested the use of a "fuse", that the attachment for the clew to the outhaul be made to give way at a pre-determined wind strength. No reason to lose the whole rig. Seemed like a good concept to me. Easy to rig and easy to replace.

Ann
And easy to end up dead when it lets go.

A sheet-release system needs an element of control.
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Old 10-07-2016, 20:41   #103
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

You would guess the shock loads of an accidental gybe with the main out would blow the "fuse" also.

I think with the Gunboat G4 foiler they were looking at an automated system to blow main, use the foils and steer down after their capsize. Something like this might be a possibility in the future however it wouldn't be very nice to have an auto system suddenly turn your boat onto rocks either.
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Old 10-07-2016, 21:31   #104
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

I live in Melbourne, We get the same winds and weather Tassie gets, It actually comes up from the south over Tassie,
Last week we had 120 KPH winds gusts, with a constant around 80 KPH,
I know this because I cant go skiing, The Lifts get shut down,

Port Phillip Bay, Western Port Bay and Bass Straight can go from a Dead Flat Mill Pond to a very turbulent Maelstrom in minutes, with winds over 100 KPH,
Being further south at the top of the Southern Ocean, Its only 400 miles or so,
I would assume the winds at the bottom of Tassie would be a lot stronger than in Melbourne,
Very Strong Gusty winds are a part of life here, Tassie gets the same winds,
So flipping a boat, any boat would be exceptionally easy if you werent prepared for it,
Too much sail up, on the wrong angle, bang, Your over,
Even experienced sailors can get caught out in very strong wind gusts,

This coming Wednesday, If your in Tassie or Victoria, Make sure your in a safe spot, Because its on its way, Including snow down to 300 metres, And very high winds,
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Old 10-07-2016, 21:46   #105
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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On the subject of the wind strengths off Kangaroo Pt., all I can say for sure is that we have caught strong puffs there in strong northerly conditions. The BoM anemometer for Hobart, I think is out near the airport, not right along the Derwent.

Ann
Dennes Point, Northern end of Bruny has one, and ELLERSLIE ROAD, Hobart, as well as the airport.
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