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Old 04-07-2016, 16:00   #61
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Just remember - this is the boat that holds the Round Australia solo non stop record. Its not a block of flats, its a very high performance boat.
Yes, I understand that. But all that means is that if the vessel has an experienced and well trained skipper then it can go around the world. like probably any vessel.

But, if that same vessel can be so easily flipped in a river? With an inexperienced crew? Then it seems to me that it's not a boat that's safe for just anyone to use.
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:03   #62
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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I've got to say, the fact that a boat of that design can flip, just by the new owners not doing something correct worries me. And in a river to boot!

Is it really that easy? And if it is, is it really that safe?
Rustic you raise an interesting point. The catamaran in question was advertised
as a cruiser. It has a very large cabin. It can hardly be classified as a "nose" to the wall RACER. Just because someone races a boat doesn't make it a racer. People still race SS34 s' for instance.

I understand the owner, owned/owns the very light weight racing catamaran
SLINGSHOT. Is this correct? If this is correct he can hardly be described as a novice. In-fact one would have to be highly skilled to keep slingshot sunny side up in the conditions Tasmania can serve up during races.

They were very lucky the boat capsized in a river in full view of people who could offer assistance. The outcome could have been very different.

I wonder if the time will come where us multihull owners will be required to undergo special training? Maybe a license system?
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:13   #63
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Cats can capsize if you leave all your sail area in high winds. Just like monos can, as well. Indeed, monos can get knocked down causing damage and injury even earlier. If you bought a performance mono with a huge sail plan and left it all up in strong winds you'd get smashed too. Anyone could spin a Ferrari into a wall by making a simple mistake, for example. It would appear that the new owners didn't understand what they'd bought or how to sail it.

It's a testament to the design and build that it still kept its rig!

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The obvious thing with Mono's is that you can knock a mono down and it get's back up again. Everyone who sails off shore in a mono should know damn well that inside the boat has to be set up and the crew should expect this possibility.

But you seem to be suggesting cat's do actually flip quite easily if you don't know what your doing. For example, leaving way too much sail out could be fatal?

So, I think what your saying is, Cat's are not really for beginners
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Old 04-07-2016, 16:32   #64
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The obvious thing with Mono's is that you can knock a mono down and it get's back up again.
Maybe, but that's left to chance. You could also have broken your neck and lost your rig in that knockdown. You never know.

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm
Everyone who sails off shore in a mono should know damn well that inside the boat has to be set up and the crew should expect this possibility.

But you seem to be suggesting cat's do actually flip quite easily if you don't know what your doing. For example, leaving way too much sail out could be fatal?

So, I think what your saying is, Cat's are not really for beginners
I'm not suggesting cats flip easily but if you buy a ferrari and drive it in a cavalier fashion when you haven't bothered to understand that you're driving a high end, high powered and unforgiving sports car you are going to crash it. I'm reminded of all the guys I used to coach at the superbike school. They haven't ridden a motorbike since their 20s and now, in their late 30s early 40s they buy a 1000cc sports bike, think they know what they're doing and either chuck it down the road or come to the school after scaring themselves witless. Or both.

You can't generalise all cat designs in the manner you seek to. If the people that flipped this cat were sailing the new FP 47, for example, they may not have even realised they had too much sail up. You neglected my earlier comment regarding a performance mono, if they'd left a large sail plan aloft when the wind came streaming in they'd be in the drink and given the wide, aft beams of the new performance monos maybe they'd be capsized too.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:01   #65
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The obvious thing with Mono's is that you can knock a mono down and it get's back up again. Everyone who sails off shore in a mono should know damn well that inside the boat has to be set up and the crew should expect this possibility.

But you seem to be suggesting cat's do actually flip quite easily if you don't know what your doing. For example, leaving way too much sail out could be fatal?

So, I think what your saying is, Cat's are not really for beginners

Not all monos recover from knockdown's. This has been said a thousand times but let me say it again, the chance of flipping a cat is statistically about equal to a monohull sinking. Only difference is with a flipped cat you have some evidence left to talk about. What happened to all those monohulls lost at sea?


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Old 04-07-2016, 17:18   #66
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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But, if that same vessel can be so easily flipped in a river?
Hmm... the river in question is, of course, the Derwent. For the record, the strongest winds that we have ever encountered in all our years of sailing have been... in Hobart, on the Derwent! Two occasions, winds in the 80s with gusts nearly 100.

RC, it may be "just a river" but it is wind strength we are considering here, not wave action, and when Aeolus (whose winter home is atop Mt Wellington) puffs, the gust conditions here are worse than at sea IME.

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Old 04-07-2016, 17:21   #67
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Not all monos recover from knockdown's. This has been said a thousand times but let me say it again, the chance of flipping a cat is statistically about equal to a monohull sinking. Only difference is with a flipped cat you have some evidence left to talk about. What happened to all those monohulls lost at sea?


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Hey, you won't find me disputing this. Statistically cat's are very safe.

BUT, I also find it strange that this particular cat can be so easily over turned just by crew that made mistakes. That I find is a worry.

And a mono that is sea worthy, should not 'go down' after a knock down. Mono's sink from bad weather when they are severly damaged and let water in, or suddenly become engulled in water such as through the Companion way or broken windows.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:29   #68
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Hmm... the river in question is, of course, the Derwent. For the record, the strongest winds that we have ever encountered in all our years of sailing have been... in Hobart, on the Derwent! Two occasions, winds in the 80s with gusts nearly 100.

RC, it may be "just a river" but it is wind strength we are considering here, not wave action, and when Aeolus (whose winter home is atop Mt Wellington) puffs, the gust conditions here are worse than at sea IME.

Jim
I would have thought the area around Schouten Island on the east coast would have romped that title in .

Pretty nasty.

Funnel formed by the passage combined with the bullets off the highlands.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:30   #69
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Hmm... the river in question is, of course, the Derwent. For the record, the strongest winds that we have ever encountered in all our years of sailing have been... in Hobart, on the Derwent! Two occasions, winds in the 80s with gusts nearly 100.

RC, it may be "just a river" but it is wind strength we are considering here, not wave action, and when Aeolus (whose winter home is atop Mt Wellington) puffs, the gust conditions here are worse than at sea IME.

Jim
I'm familiar with the Derwent. I did my marine training down there and worked down there for many years.

If the Derwent has been the worst winds you have experienced in what I know is your many years of sailing experience, then sorry, I'm lost for words.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:32   #70
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Just to be clear, as I'm already suspecting my questioning is raising the eye brows of some cat lovers.

I really like Cats. If I had the money, I'd have one. I simply can't afford one. I also see the statistics and know they are one hell of a safe vessel compared numerically to mono's.

I'm really questioning this particular vessel. As it seems odd to me that it so easily flipped through simply having too much sail out when surprised by a squall.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:38   #71
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
But you seem to be suggesting cat's do actually flip quite easily if you don't know what your doing. For example, leaving way too much sail out could be fatal?

So, I think what your saying is, Cat's are not really for beginners
SOME, indeed a select few, not all, extrapolating from this record setting boat to ALL is not appropriate.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:41   #72
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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SOME, indeed a select few, not all, extrapolating from this record setting boat to ALL is not appropriate.
But I'm not and I havn't

I'm asking what about this particular vessel made it flip so easily? YOU (not me) seemed to be suggesting that if you leave enough sail out, all Cat's will flip quite easily? I find this hard to believe.
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:43   #73
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm
I'm really questioning this particular vessel. As it seems odd to me that it so easily flipped through simply having too much sail out when surprised by a squall.
It's already been explained to you but it appears that it doesn't sit well with you. That's cool. I suggest you don't buy a performance catamaran
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Old 04-07-2016, 17:58   #74
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Gee you Cat people really are sensative arn't you glad I didn't include a comment about anchors for cats

No No Rustic. Thats a little unfair.

Some of "US" Cat people are very sensitive.

But not all.

The realists face the facts and try and learn from these regular capsizes.

Not bury their heads in the sand and demand a cover up.

I, like you, do not understand this sensitive , defensive, mindset.


Now what about Guns on Cats
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Old 04-07-2016, 18:23   #75
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Gee you Cat people really are sensative arn't you glad I didn't include a comment about anchors for cats

Now your being silly. We all know cats don't anchor, they only tie up in marinas and remain there until they rot away.😄


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