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Old 30-08-2016, 20:41   #151
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
The little tri that flipped in the Airlie Beach Races was recovered on the day.


You'll be glad (?) to know that all crew were rescued safe and well.
Yes very pleased all safe and well.

Yes it was towed that day and anchored for 36 hours awaiting re-flipping.
I understand that when the owner went to recover it the vessel had disappeared and was reportedly sighted 30 odd mies away but still no reports of recovery.

So , in short it was not recovered that day. Any info as to weather it has been recovered yet?
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Old 30-08-2016, 21:10   #152
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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So , in short it was not recovered that day. Any info as to weather it has been recovered yet?
No, AFAIK " Frantic" the monohull TP52 racing yacht and veteran of Sydney -Hobart races has not been recovered. Luckily for it's crew, it stuck hard on a fringing reef so they could abandon ship, before it disappeared.
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Old 30-08-2016, 22:32   #153
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Not sure if its the newer tp52 or the smaller 40 foot sayer designed aluminium frantic that was lost.

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Old 30-08-2016, 23:06   #154
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Not sure if its the newer tp52 or the smaller 40 foot sayer designed aluminium frantic that was lost.

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Ok, sorry, I'm not sure about which "Frantic" but I am sure that Seaslug can enlighten us.
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Old 30-08-2016, 23:17   #155
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Ok, sorry, I'm not sure about which "Frantic" but I am sure that Seaslug can enlighten us.
Not about the monos, but from the VMR Airlie facebook page it appears as though the escaped tri has washed ashore on a beach near Bowen. Question answered.


VMR Whitsunday
21 August at 22:52
Further update on trimaran "Closer to God"........................
She has now come ashore at a beach in Bowen, still upside down and now missing the mast, rigging and sails.
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Old 31-08-2016, 00:33   #156
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Sounds to me like the Big Wave Rider encountered a williwaw (a sudden violent squall blowing offshore from a mountainous coast). I've never sailed the Derwent, but I remember seeing williwaws one day as I rounded Bream Head headed for Whangerei. What impressed me was relatively light (15-20k) conditions, punctuated by short duration gusts of over 50k. You could tell the gusts were coming because they picked up the surface water into a cloud of moving spray. I feathered up into the first few blasts in my ultralight mono (4.5 tons, 40 ft), then said no sense in damaging the sails, so I furled them and fired up the motor.

It was similar or even more extreme conditions in the lee of the Pitons in St Lucia which lead to the capsize of a Lagoon. The cat was motoring with the main up and sheeted in light air when the williwaw hit, and went over on its side just like BWR.

I think the lesson to be learned for all sailors is to be wary when the wind is blowing off tall mountains, especially at night when you can't see the williwaws coming.

Regardless of what some moderators might think, I think that this has been a pretty good thread, with a minimum of personal attacks.

I was particularly interested in the post which gave flat water capsize wind strengths for various cats. It really emphasizes the point others have made that there are huge tradeoffs in stability for performance. I'm curious how those numbers were derived, especially what lift coefficient they assumed for the sails.
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Old 31-08-2016, 00:56   #157
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Absolutely a long way. A fuse is a completely different beast altogether. I am not sure why you would bring this into the discussion.

By all means talk to the manufacturers at the Sydney Boat Show in regard to the issue of potential capsize. I certainly have and all of them are pretty happy to discuss. However, for obvious reasons it is certainly not something they would want to put in websites or handouts, nor would they under any circumstances want the marketing blowback of capsizing boats.

For a more comprehensive discussion however, you are probably better off talking to riggers who have a much better idea of the breaking strains of every aspect of the rigging. I, like anyone, who has attempted to push their boat to its limits, and paid the financial price as a result, have had many discussions with riggers in this regard and have identified several failure points that will go long before the boat capsizes. Certainly, I have discussed the possibilities of bullet proofing the rigging to overcome these failure points (and theoretically making the boat faster) but this seems pretty unsafe to me, not to mention costly.
So to update ... I asked at the boat show about production cat rigs being designed as sacrificial and they're not.
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Old 31-08-2016, 02:52   #158
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

"Frantic is a Sayer 40 and is sailed out of the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron in Brisbane - she was a competitor in the Pittwater to Coffs Harbour ocean race last year."

Frantic still missing | Whitsunday Times

Yacht Details
Sail Number M161
Design Sayer 11.9
Length 11.9m
Beam 3.5m
Year 1994
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Old 31-08-2016, 03:12   #159
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Frantic found off Olden Island
Frantic search comes to an end | Whitsunday Times
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Old 31-08-2016, 04:47   #160
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Impressive buoyancy.
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Old 31-08-2016, 05:44   #161
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

keel is missing?
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Old 31-08-2016, 06:11   #162
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

I wonder if there are threads on the internet where people argue about which vehicle is safer, a Hummer or a Suburban. For me, if I'm going to be in a car crash, I want to be in a Hummer. Do I drive a Hummer? No. It doesn't suit me in many other ways. Safety is not top of my list when I buy a car. Safety was not top of my list when I picked the neighborhood I live in, either. I didn't even look up the crime statistics. Or for my city, for that matter.

I didn't consider the ease of egress in the event of a fire in the house I bought, either. I don't check the safety records of airlines when I fly. I don't ask to see inspection reports in restaurants. I don't always look both ways before I cross. Sometimes I speed.

Cats and monos have pluses and minuses. Which one is safer in a hurricane? Who cares. I doubt anybody on this thread really cares, but many are anxious to justify their purchase (don't get me started on my stereo speakers, or the TV (plasma is definitely better)).
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Old 31-08-2016, 06:33   #163
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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keel is missing?
It's a lift keel, fairly high aspect and deep. Could be missing.. Aluminium hull looks a bit dented.
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Old 31-08-2016, 08:26   #164
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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I was particularly interested in the post which gave flat water capsize wind strengths for various cats. It really emphasizes the point others have made that there are huge tradeoffs in stability for performance. I'm curious how those numbers were derived, especially what lift coefficient they assumed for the sails.
Don,

You can find a couple of equations for static and dynamic stability on these sites:

Catamaran Stability | James Wharram Designs

Considerations for Seaworthiness

http://www.multihulldynamics.com/ima...THULLS2013.pdf
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Old 31-08-2016, 17:51   #165
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Good to see they've found Frantic. I hope they can salvage her.
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