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Old 11-07-2016, 16:48   #136
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Nobody made this claim.
Yes, they did. Honestly, mate, read the thread again.
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Old 11-07-2016, 16:56   #137
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

cwjohm, your Helia has an unloaded displacement of 10.8 tonnes, I'd guess fully loaded it would be maybe 14-15 tonnes?


What size rigging wire does it have? At least 12mm I'd imagine, probably either bigger or dyform.


12 mm 1x19 has a breaking strain of over 10 tonnes, dyform over 14.
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Old 11-07-2016, 17:04   #138
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Yes, they did. Honestly, mate, read the thread again.
Read the thread again, just in case. A fuse methodology to incorporate into boats was suggested. I mentioned that boats like the Tag had fuses inbuilt.

NOBODY suggested that production boats have fuses.
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Old 11-07-2016, 17:09   #139
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Read the thread again, just in case. A fuse methodology to incorporate into boats was suggested. I mentioned that boats like the Tag had fuses inbuilt.

NOBODY suggested that production boats have fuses.
So the Tag isn't a production boat then?

Mate, I don't know what your mission is but my point is relevant and still stands.
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Old 11-07-2016, 17:10   #140
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

I restate "Wire size is not relevant". Let us not bore everybody senseless by discussing every one of the failure points of a boat from an engineering perspective.


Both viewpoints have been stated, and we can simply agree to disagree.


On the general principle that seamanship is the key issue we are all in agreement.
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Old 11-07-2016, 17:18   #141
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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So the Tag isn't a production boat then?
No way is the Tag a production boat. In five years they have built a similar number of boats and each is different in their own way. They hope that one day it will be a production facility but based on their promises and performance to date it is not looking good.

If you want a definition I would define Outremer as the smallest production builder and they build 18 boats per year at a run of 5 per model per annum of the 45 and 51.
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Old 11-07-2016, 17:25   #142
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
No way is the Tag a production boat. In five years they have built a similar number of boats and each is different in their own way. They hope that one day it will be a production facility but based on their promises and performance to date it is not looking good.

If you want a definition I would define Outremer as the smallest production builder and they build 18 boats per year at a run of 5 per model per annum of the 45 and 51.
I, respectfully, disagree. It is, by definition, a production boat. Outremer's can also be customised how you want and are.

Anyway ... this is going off track.
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Old 11-07-2016, 18:21   #143
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Just to put it all into perspective:
MultihullDynamics figures:

KSI: Kelsall Stability Indicator
The wind speed, winds abeam and 100% of working sails or greater, in knots at which the cat is likely to capsize.

Lagoon 440 - 45.0 knots
Helia 44 - 44.5 knots
Grainger G44XT - 36.3 knots
Leopard 44 - 34.6 knots
Schng Cosmo 1340 - 31.0 knots
Crowther SP 40 - 27.2 knots
Schng Waterline 1320 - 27.0 Knots
Greencat 445 - 25.4 knots
Fastcat 445 - 25.4 knots
Crowther S10 - 18.9 knots


I wonder where Big Wave rider would fit into that list?
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:00   #144
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Port Phillip Bay Today, Tassie would be getting the same,
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:25   #145
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

[QU
OTE=Seaslug Caravan;2164240]
Sail area is "king" when it comes to speed. Even trying to maintain way and drive to windward in waves requires a surprising amount of sail on a high windage cruising cat.

I suggest you do a little club racing and you will understand.

Now cranking up the motor is a whole different story, but that is not sailing.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but keep in mind we are talking about cruising, not racing. In fact, we seem to spend more time trying to slow the boat down than to speed it up. If we see a squall approaching or are sailing in the lee of a land mass we have no problem shortening sail or even dropping all sail and motoring. Sure, we slow down a bit, but we are still moving well and we are in no danger of capsize.

Concerning fuses, I think that the main reason you don't see them on cats is that, when sailed conservatively in 'cruising' mode, they are not necessary. A lightweight cat will still move along nicely when deeply reefed and will be very difficult to capsize. As Factor pointed out, capsize due to wind happens but it is exceedingly rare.
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Old 30-08-2016, 04:00   #146
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Talked to my freind who saw her flip. He is pretty sure she just had the full main up, no headsail. Went over sideways in slow motion. no pitchpoling in the middle of the river.

It was mid afternoon as a big squall came through. Divers got the main off before they towed her up to POW bay.
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Old 30-08-2016, 14:39   #147
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Talked to my freind who saw her flip. He is pretty sure she just had the full main up, no headsail. Went over sideways in slow motion. no pitchpoling in the middle of the river.

It was mid afternoon as a big squall came through. Divers got the main off before they towed her up to POW bay.

Thanks for the update Snow.

Looks like BWR has gone off to the boat doctor up the bay for a little work.
Even though it was recovered largely intact, the Electronics , Wiring, Upholstery, refrigeration and motors are going to all need replacing. Sure you can flush the 4 stroke o/b s' out but long term they wont have enjoyed their 18 hour swim.

All those little bits that would have been laying around the boat, inside and out are all probably at the bottom of the Derwent. I suspect an expensive exercise all round.

I see another multi participating in the Airlie/Hamilton series flipped again this year. Has it been recovered yet?
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Old 30-08-2016, 15:09   #148
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pirate Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Sensible cruising cat owners already have a very efficient built in 'Fuse'..
The Pucker Factor'..
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Old 30-08-2016, 18:23   #149
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

Last weekend. Looking a bit sad!

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Old 30-08-2016, 18:40   #150
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Re: Warning some may find this disturbing

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Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post

I see another multi participating in the Airlie/Hamilton series flipped again this year. Has it been recovered yet?
The little tri that flipped in the Airlie Beach Races was recovered on the day.

Not so another competitor, the mono "Frantic" that seems to have been lost without trace, probably sunk.

You'll be glad (?) to know that all crew were rescued safe and well.
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