Upwind performance of condomarans

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by smj

Did this Lagoon 400 actually capsize and sink?
http://www.wavetrain.net/news-a-view...oung-girl-dead

from what i remember rescue ship has crushed the boat and then boat sank. Epirb activation may not always be solution to the problem, sometimes kills you.

[PaulinOz]

Quote ROM "I've been reading a few user guides recently, I wish new buyers would put some pressure on manufacturers to obtain a better documentation set."

Plus 10 to that comment Rom. I have recently been trying to Library the PDF Owners manuals and Electrical / Plumbing diagrams for the Lagoon Group, so new owners of second hand boats with no original documentation can access them. It is like trying to drag top secret information out of foreign governments. Better documentation would be excellent, simpler access to what currently exists, would be a starting point.

[rom]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

what is then light displacement 10,615 ? I thought this one includes water and fuel...

No. It is the payload on the CE marking that excludes water & fuel.

Light displacement, no one came up with a clear definition yet. Per CE directive it seems it should be a boat ready to sail (if a sailboat) with standard (yet minimal) equipment.

@smj: please don't bring that L400 horror story here and go waist your time somewhere else.

@Paulinoz: yes, thanks I saw your effort and I actually participated

[smj]

Originally Posted by rom

No. It is the payload on the CE marking that excludes water & fuel.

Light displacement, no one came up with a clear definition yet. Per CE directive it seems it should be a boat ready to sail (if a sailboat) with standard (yet minimal) equipment.

@smj: please don't bring that L400 horror story here and go waist your time somewhere else.

@Paulinoz: yes, thanks I saw your effort and I actually participated

I’m sorry rom but the sinking of the Lagoon 400 shouldn’t be considered a waste of time, all a learning experience right? If the Lagoon 400 sank because it was overloaded or possibly the Lagoon figures were of for the load capacity it should be known.
No takers on whether there have been any Seawind’s that have capsized?

[PaulinOz]

Quote smj "If the Lagoon 400 sank because it was overloaded or possibly the Lagoon figures were of for the load capacity it should be known."

Only info that I can find re this particular incident translated from a french website.

"The weather window that we have been waiting for several days to leave is presented. We will drop anchor for the Azores this Friday. "Posted on their blog, the message of Sophie Lacellerie and Claude Hachet dated April 22. They actually left St. Martin on April 24, crossed the Atlantic aboard "Rêves d'O", their catamaran Lagoon 400, and approached the archipelago of the Azores this Wednesday. It was then that they were caught in a big storm early in the night. Hollow 5 meters. A kind of whirlpool would have heckled "O Dreams" as well as three other sailboats that were in the same area. Wanting to help them, a cargo ship from Hong Kong would have involuntarily hit the catamaran of the family Charente-Maritime.
Seven hours at sea Sophie, 37, and her 9-year-old son Hugo, managed to get on the life raft. They were rescued around 1 am by the same ship. But Claude, 39, and his daughter Ines, 6, who had been ejected from "O Dreams", floated for hours with their lifejacket. They were recovered only in the early morning by the Portuguese Air Force and transported to the nearest hospital. Too late for Ines, who had spent seven hours in the water. She suffered from hypothermia and could not be saved.
Back to La Rochelle In total, the Portuguese navy had to rescue 12 people between Wednesday and Thursday in the storm zone. Only little Ines would not have survived."

Just as stated by arsenelupiga in post #241.


Quote smj "No takers on whether there have been any Seawind’s that have capsized?" Been raining down here for past 24 hours on anchor, so I have time to play this game.

I have never herd of a Seawind capsizing, but that does not mean it has not happened. How many do you know about ?

[smj]

The cargo ship WOULD HAVE involuntarily hit the Catamaran...... but did it? Would have, could have, should have but nothing definitive.
And no, never heard of a Seawind capsizing.

[PaulinOz]

Originally Posted by smj

The cargo ship WOULD HAVE involuntarily hit the Catamaran...... but did it? Would have, could have, should have but nothing definitive.
And no, never heard of a Seawind capsizing.

Sorry I can not find anything more definitive for you.

My take is the "WOULD HAVE involuntarily hit the Catamaran" is more to do with the French way of phrasing and the Google translation than weather it did or did not hit them in the first place. It is pointing out that it was not a deliberate act by the cargo ship.

Original text in case we have some French speakers here, to give a more definitive answer.

"C'est alors qu'ils ont été pris dans une grosse tempête en début de nuit. Des creux de 5 mètres. Une sorte de tourbillon aurait chahuté « Rêves d'O » ainsi que trois autres voiliers qui se trouvaient dans la même zone. Voulant leur porter secours, un cargo de Hongkong aurait involontairement heurté le catamaran de la famille charentaise- maritime."

[Scaramanga F25]

I am a fluent french speaker so: " cargo went to help the 3 boats and would have involuntarily struck the catamaran".

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by smj

It seems the conversation is partly about Seawind’s use as a blue water cruiser. I understand the load carrying capacity as being part of the blue water requirements, but does anyone recall any Seawind’s that have capsized while sailing?

The Seawind model catalog/brochure proudly states the answer to that is zero. Just read it last week. When I picked up brochure while sitting on the 1260 at Miami boat show. [emoji16]

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

The Seawind model catalog/brochure proudly states the answer to that is zero. Just read it last week. When I picked up brochure while sitting on the 1260 at Miami boat show. [emoji16]

Thanks Mike. That’s my number one priority for a blue water cruiser and it appears Seawind passes that priority with flying colors!

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by smj

Thanks Mike. That’s my number one priority for a blue water cruiser and it appears Seawind passes that priority with flying colors!

Just FYI, we sailed an 1160 Lite at the show, and I was shocked by how close to weather it sailed, and tacking angle, even with a Dacron main that had a shape issue. It is definitely a different performance boat than early model Deluxe version I sailed on previously. The merger with Corsair has really influenced construction, with resin infusion, and the one piece hull layup makes for a much lighter and stiffer boat than even my SW1000. We now have a deposit on a new build Lite. My boat is listed in Classifieds, and with Finish Line. Wish I wouldn't have spent so much updating it three years ago! I can actually blame this on my wife, who got "bigger boat" fever! We were supposed to be leaving for Bahamas again in a week, but now I will be home instead doing test sails with prospective buyers.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by smj

Thanks Mike. That’s my number one priority for a blue water cruiser and it appears Seawind passes that priority with flying colors!

this thread turned into seawind promotion ? I think guys you should start separate thread.

FACTOR !!!

be nice and answer questions about 0.5% better rating for daggerboards.

Else I will start doubting your claims and credibility!

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Just FYI, we sailed an 1160 Lite at the show, and I was shocked by how close to weather it sailed, and tacking angle, even with a Dacron main that had a shape issue. It is definitely a different performance boat than early model Deluxe version I sailed on previously. The merger with Corsair has really influenced construction, with resin infusion, and the one piece hull layup makes for a much lighter and stiffer boat than even my SW1000. We now have a deposit on a new build Lite. My boat is listed in Classifieds, and with Finish Line. Wish I wouldn't have spent so much updating it three years ago! I can actually blame this on my wife, who got "bigger boat" fever! We were supposed to be leaving for Bahamas again in a week, but now I will be home instead doing test sails with prospective buyers.

Congratulations on the new 1160, probably my favorite catamaran!
I’m sure Ted will be upset you won’t be in the Abacos this year.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

this thread turned into seawind promotion ? I think guys you should start separate thread.

FACTOR !!!

be nice and answer questions about 0.5% better rating for daggerboards.

Else I will start doubting your claims and credibility!

Oops, I guess I should have posted something bashing Seawind, as that is apparently much more accepted!

Oh, and not to bail out Factor, but I do ratings for offshore multihulls in Texas gulf and bay races. Ratings analysis varies by region, and to expect that daggerboards adjustment equals "x" percent everywhere is not realistic. Most times a boats rating varies by region. Sometimes that is political, but many times it is driven by environmental conditions (wave or swell height, wind speed).

[smj]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

this thread turned into seawind promotion ? I think guys you should start separate thread.

FACTOR !!!

be nice and answer questions about 0.5% better rating for daggerboards.

Else I will start doubting your claims and credibility!

I believe it was you and this quote “this thread started mixing cruising long distance cats like lagoon with coastal cruiser cats like seawind .” that started this conversation. Obviously to you the ability to carry washer/dryer, dish washer and trash compactor is considered more seaworthy than being kept in the upright non capsized position. Since the Lagoons seem to have a multitude of capsizes and the Seawind’s have none maybe your quote should have read “ this thread started mixing cruising long distance cats like Seawind with coastal cruiser cats like Lagoon”