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Old 22-10-2013, 21:39   #1
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Unstayed masts

A pic of Bertrand and a mates boat in the Atlantic.
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Old 22-10-2013, 23:08   #2
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Re: Unstayed masts

Tuff boats those Wharrams.
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Old 23-10-2013, 10:40   #3
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Old 23-10-2013, 11:32   #4
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Re: Unstayed masts

nice mate, how do yo find this kind of rig compared to more conventional rigs?
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Old 23-10-2013, 12:34   #5
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Re: Unstayed masts

I sailed more than 1,000 miles off Cape Town on this Jeff Schionning designed " Radical Bay 8000 " 8m cat. To sail efficiently it needs slightly different sailing techniques but I liked it and will be having a bi-rig on my next cat.
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Old 23-10-2013, 17:32   #6
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nice mate, how do yo find this kind of rig compared to more conventional rigs?
Well...I am biased, I've never owned any other boat, but here's my take on it.
It's safer. No rigging with its many potential failure points. The masts are super strong carbon fiber. There's only one point of failure.
Also, because the sail plan is divided into two, the masts are shorter creating a much lower center of effort. I'm pretty sure this boat will never fly a hull.
Smaller sails, I can single handed carry them to a sail shop for repair. I lift the sails using no winches. Less forces on the mainsheet...
And, because the masts can rotate 360 degrees sails can be reefed on any point of sail. Or, if a large gust catches me off guard, I can release the sheets and both mainsails can 100% be de powered.
Better cruising pleasure. My view is very wide open when sailing wing on wing downwind or hard up Into the wind. Tacking upwind there is nothing to do except push/pull the tiller. When sailing wing on wing downwind, the sails can be let out so the clew is forward of the masts making an accidental gybed virtually impossible. Sailing upwind has proven to be her best point of sail compared to other cruising cats.
I have a free flying jib and a larger nylon drifter sail that I can use if I feel like working or if the wind speed and angle makes it conducive to do so.
See pics below of the drifter sail I have on a furler.

I LOVE my biplane rigged catamaran!!!

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Old 23-10-2013, 18:07   #7
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Re: Unstayed masts

Looks super duper to me. If it doesn't break, I am in.

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Old 23-10-2013, 18:23   #8
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Re: Unstayed masts

Solarbri is so modest. What he has is a one off FOLDING 36' TRAILERABLE (sorry for yelling) cat. It is really cool and a one of a kind. Oh yes, unstayed masts. It's all here.
Cat2fold.com

You might be able to talk Kurt Hughes into designing one for you.
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Old 24-10-2013, 06:50   #9
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Solarbri is so modest. What he has is a one off FOLDING 36' TRAILERABLE (sorry for yelling) cat. It is really cool and a one of a kind. Oh yes, unstayed masts. It's all here. Cat2fold.com You might be able to talk Kurt Hughes into designing one for you.
Thanks Sandcrab!
You can even buy the stock set of plans directly from a Kurt Hughes...
http://multihulldesigns.com/designs_...cat2fold36.htm

One other benefit to the biplane set up is redundancy. My boat sails just fine with only one sail up. Tacking is a bit more challenging, but very doable.
The way C2F is set up, I always kid how I go sailing with an entire spare boat attached to my boat!
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Old 24-10-2013, 07:02   #10
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Re: Unstayed masts

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Originally Posted by solarbri View Post
Thanks Sandcrab!
You can even buy the stock set of plans directly from a Kurt Hughes...
Kurt Hughes Multihull Design - Catamarans and Trimarans for Cruising and Charter - 36' Cat 2 Fold Catamaran

One other benefit to the biplane set up is redundancy. My boat sails just fine with only one sail up. Tacking is a bit more challenging, but very doable.
The way C2F is set up, I always kid how I go sailing with an entire spare boat attached to my boat!
interesting!
might be the way to go for the prout37 i am building!

how does she sail using only one mast with a sail up?

or do allways have both sails up and you reef both sides progressively?
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Old 24-10-2013, 08:24   #11
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interesting! might be the way to go for the prout37 i am building! how does she sail using only one mast with a sail up? or do allways have both sails up and you reef both sides progressively?
Personally, I usually reef both sides progressively (both sails all up, both sails at double reef, etc...) Although when I am sailing into an anchorage, and want to drop the hook under sail, I will generally drop the port side sail once I'm on my last tack. My main anchor (Rocna 10- 22lb.) lives in the starboard bow. So all I have to do is release one sheet (or drop the mainsail) and continue walking forward to drop my anchor. No running back and forth, or side to side.

Once in PV area last year, while approaching La Cruz wing on wing downwind, the wind had piped up to around 23-25 knots. Boat speed was approaching 15 knots. A HUGE catamaran (Sunreef 72) came out of La Cruz on a reach towards Puerto Vallarta proper I thought it would be could fun to try and chase him down. Problem is, I should have been reefed. To head up in any direction from DDW, I have to Gybe one of the sails. When I did, it was a bit more violent than I planned and the choker (specific to the wishbone boom) broke making that windward sail crumple into a useless rag. I stowed that sail and continued chase with only one mainsail full up. We were slowly catching (reaching at ~10 knots) but, we eventually turned around to go anchor in La Cruz, which was the original plan. I later met the professional crew aboard the Sunreef and learned that they were motor sailing and when they noticed us giving chase, they gassed it some more.
There is also the option of reefing one sail at a time in rough seas, because the windward sail is completely accessible above the deck, where the leeward sail (unless you tack) is out over open water. I can still reef with it out there, but, it is much easier and safer if something gets twisted to reef the sails above the deck.
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Old 24-10-2013, 08:30   #12
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Re: Unstayed masts

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Originally Posted by solarbri View Post
Personally, I usually reef both sides progressively (both sails all up, both sails at double reef, etc...) Although when I am sailing into an anchorage, and want to drop the hook under sail, I will generally drop the port side sail once I'm on my last tack. My main anchor (Rocna 10- 22lb.) lives in the starboard bow. So all I have to do is release one sheet (or drop the mainsail) and continue walking forward to drop my anchor. No running back and forth, or side to side.

Once in PV area last year, while approaching La Cruz wing on wing downwind, the wind had piped up to around 23-25 knots. Boat speed was approaching 15 knots. A HUGE catamaran (Sunreef 72) came out of La Cruz on a reach towards Puerto Vallarta proper I thought it would be could fun to try and chase him down. Problem is, I should have been reefed. To head up in any direction from DDW, I have to Gybe one of the sails. When I did, it was a bit more violent than I planned and the choker (specific to the wishbone boom) broke making that windward sail crumple into a useless rag. I stowed that sail and continued chase with only one mainsail full up. We were slowly catching (reaching at ~10 knots) but, we eventually turned around to go anchor in La Cruz, which was the original plan. I later met the professional crew aboard the Sunreef and learned that they were motor sailing and when they noticed us giving chase, they gassed it some more.
There is also the option of reefing one sail at a time in rough seas, because the windward sail is completely accessible above the deck, where the leeward sail (unless you tack) is out over open water. I can still reef with it out there, but, it is much easier and safer if something gets twisted to reef the sails above the deck.
sounds like a good system!
your boat is 35ft?,how tall are the masts?
also are the masts midships or further foward?
what is the sail area of each sail?aprox
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Old 24-10-2013, 08:39   #13
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Re: Unstayed masts

having seen solarbris cat flying in zihuatenejo and banderas bay--i can only say one thing--it i s an awesome idea and does the job very well. even looks good.
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Old 24-10-2013, 08:50   #14
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sounds like a good system! your boat is 35ft?,how tall are the masts? also are the masts midships or further foward? what is the sail area of each sail?aprox
C2F is 36' long. 24' beam. Extra wide for the length.
The masts are 38' total. ~33' above the deck, 5' inserted into the hull. The sail luff is ~31', foot is ~12' (I think).
The boat was originally designed with a single 56' mast, but the creator/financier of the project, Raphael Francke, didn't like the idea of trailering or stepping that big of a mast. From what I can see, the biplane masts only moved forward 10-12" in front of the forward beam (where the original mast was going to be).
I'm VERY glad they went with the biplane/freestanding setup. It just works!
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Old 24-10-2013, 08:53   #15
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having seen solarbris cat flying in zihuatenejo and banderas bay--i can only say one thing--it i s an awesome idea and does the job very well. even looks good.
Thanks Zee. Maybe we'll see you down there again this year. Not sure if we'll make it all the way to Zihuat again. I get my kids for the month of December, and we will sail from San Carlos to La Paz. After that I will be soloing down to PV and...?
Hoping to race as much as possible. Definitely BBR!
Nothing teaches you more about your boat and sailing like racing!
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