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Old 23-11-2013, 14:30   #106
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Re: Unsinkable

I love the way we have jumped from unsinkable to capsized.

Its as if there is some form of mental rejection of the possibility of a vessel not sinking.

I really really don't understand this thread, surely if you can make a vessel able to remain afloat that can only be a good thing. Even if only partially so, even if only as a mother ship to a raft, of all the 100s of stories I have read on loss of vessel, ALL of them were happier when they were able to access the original vessel for food water etc.
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:35   #107
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Re: Unsinkable

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
I love the way we have jumped from unsinkable to capsized.

Its as if there is some form of mental rejection of the possibility of a vessel not sinking.

I really really don't understand this thread, surely if you can make a vessel able to remain afloat that can only be a good thing. Even if only partially so, even if only as a mother ship to a raft, of all the 100s of stories I have read on loss of vessel, ALL of them were happier when they were able to access the original vessel for food water etc.
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Old 23-11-2013, 15:04   #108
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Re: Unsinkable (some food for thought)

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BTW - for those that love life rafts just remember that the biggest loss of life in a single "incident" in out part of the world was the 98 Sydney to Hobart with 6 deaths.

3 of those were 3 people in one life raft.

I dont negate rafts and dont reject them I just understand they are not a cure all.
Yes. Read the book on that event and one would not be jumping into the raft whilst the boat was afloat. No choice with the monos in that event. Unfortunatly.
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Old 23-11-2013, 16:34   #109
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Re: Unsinkable

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Now that is truly hilarious!
Hilarious, but then if you read the story of the Rose Noelle...
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Old 23-11-2013, 17:41   #110
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Re: Unsinkable

Here is a cat that didn't sink..............and would be hard to sit on.

This is from the factory and lightly loaded on this day - racing.

Some Gemini owners have filled voids with foam (the approved stuff) and if flooded would float level like the FP shown earlier.

Personally I would prefer a wet cockpit to a raft.

I want a boat like 44C's. I don't want to build it though. And can't afford to have it built.

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Old 23-11-2013, 17:53   #111
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Re: Unsinkable

The Gemini catamaran is very popular, but it wasn't designed to have sealed floatations compartments. Gemini cats are near coastal and do not have to have certified flotation as an offshore catamaran needs.
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Old 24-11-2013, 12:36   #112
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Re: Unsinkable

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The Gemini catamaran is a very popular, but it wasn't designed to have sealed floatations compartments. Gemini cats are near coastal and do not have to have certified flotation as an offshore catamaran needs.
True.

But there are enough void areas that if filled with proper foam it would float level when flooded. A couple of owners have done it but not tested it - obviously. Just used math.

This applies to the 105, 105M and 105Mc models. Maybe the 3200s and the 3400s also.

Don't know about the new Legacy.
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Old 24-11-2013, 13:29   #113
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Re: Unsinkable

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True.

But there are enough void areas that if filled with proper foam it would float level when flooded. A couple of owners have done it but not tested it - obviously. Just used math.

This applies to the 105, 105M and 105Mc models. Maybe the 3200s and the 3400s also.

Don't know about the new Legacy.
The Gemini Legacy now has balsa core that runs from the mid-point of the cockpit all the way forward to the center of the main cabin giving extra strength and buoyancy. The light areas of the hulls is the balsa core showing through.

If I owned a Gemini I would add the extra flotation.
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Old 25-11-2013, 12:14   #114
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Re: Unsinkable

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Its not one or the other you know. Surely its good to have both. Surely if you had a boat that was "swamped" it is still good to be near it in your life raft? I am not sure why it is important to ignore it all together. All of the poeple who have been "over" for example talk about the usefulness of getting back in the boat to get food water - other supplies?

And if you have ever spent any time in life rafts( I have) then you will know they are not a fun place to be.
No doubt, I want both. But I wonder about those that think they can sit on the salon top of a submerged production cat in anything more the 1-2' seas.
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Old 25-11-2013, 12:26   #115
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Re: Unsinkable

I told myself not to jump into this one. So I'll let a photo tell my side.
This was an attempted "insurance" job. She's as full as she'll get. The front of the cockpit has water to my waist, and the back of the cockpit is up to my armpits. Bridgedeck "lounge" area is awash. My wife and I towed it a few miles to shore with our monohull. Note, the forward hatches are open, no air pocket in there.






This was a light, custom build cat. Similar, but shorter, to mine or 44C. It has a foam core and two diesel engines. 44C would float higher in the stern since he's using outboards. Mine has diesels, so I would expect a similar attitude in the water whilst "full" of water.
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Old 25-11-2013, 12:37   #116
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Re: Unsinkable

svquintana,

Great pictures

Thanks for sharing as this is what cruisers really do want to know and pictures tell the story very well.
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:24   #117
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Re: Unsinkable

Great example. In anything but the flat calm pictured, this boat would be untenable.
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:29   #118
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Great example. In anything but the flat calm pictured, this boat would be untenable.
.... but still better than a life raft!
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:36   #119
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Re: Unsinkable

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People, have you read these books?

Nalepka, James. Capsized: The true story of four men adrift for 119 days.

Glennie, John. The Spirit of Rose-Noelle: 119 days adrift: a survival story.


Two differing views of the same capsize of a trimaran off NZ. Worth your time.
I suspect many have not read those accounts of survival at sea. Shows what is possible in a capsized half afloat vessel. They would not have survived for that time in a life raft off NZ.

"After four months adrift in the South Pacific in 1989, the survivors were in such relatively good health that at first their story was disbelieved. Though upside down and half-submerged, their boat was well made. Its captain, John Glennie, a shrewd old salt, and his three companions--including Nalepka, an Outward Bound guide and the sole American--had originally set out from New Zealand for Tonga, and after capsizing they made living quarters in a compartment in the hull the size of a double bed with 18 inches of head- room. Nalepka tells how they caught fish and rigged a rain-collecting contraption, but he focuses most on the changing relationships among the men as they coped with stress and were forced to become a team to survive. Glennie lost his macho authority, the tentative Phil Hoffman, a heart patient, grew surer, and a loving tenderness developed between Nalepka and Rick Hellreigel, a young man with a brain tumor. Aided by Callahan (Adrift), Nalepka tells an intriguing tale of personal victories claimed from disaster. Illustrations not seen by PW (Oct.)"
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:38   #120
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Re: Unsinkable

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Great example. In anything but the flat calm pictured, this boat would be untenable.
Really? I don't see it that way. Go inside, close the companionway door and either get up on a saloon table or countertop or go to a forward bunk. Yes, waves would be washing over the boat and moving it around a bit, and you would be at an angle, but inside should still be pretty tenable with the door shut to stop large amounts of new water from coming in.

Our companionway door is watertight. If the one in the picture is also, they could possibly bail most of the saloon dry.

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