Tri's or Cat's?

[SailFastTri]

'Scuse me why I don the hip waders. Some of you folks have really started slinging it while beating your chests.

Whether aboard a tri, a cat or a mono (or aircraft carrier) I try to avoid uncomfortable conditions. Even more so for boarding waves and survival conditions.

What's was this thread about? I forgot.

[s/v Beth]

I try to be polite and subtle to you guys and you get bent all out of shape. 44, we recently had winds of 74 knts and waves/swells averaging over 30 feet (10 meters) And these conditions did not even make news other than locally because they are normal for this time of the years. With waves of 10 meters, NOAH states that 10% will be twice the height (20meters) and a few will be much larger. OK smart guy- are you all comfortable and funny in those waves?
And don't tell me you will just sail out of them with your fast cat, because it is worse near the shore (under the 100 foot mark) when they start breaking. No, as mentioned before, you have to stay out there until things calm down.
Now, trip planning does eliminate most of the problems I agree. But we got caught in a gale at 0400 in August off the Washington coast last summer, with confused seas and high winds. No harbors, no where to go for protection, and no other boats within 25 km's. I don't want my boat coming apart under such conditions- that is why I ask the question, not because I have unfairly painted your boat as a flipper.

[weavis]

In Morecambe Bay in the UK, I have been caught several times with 30 foot waves that drop you to the seabed. Literally slam off the bottom.
It is a strange and awesome sight to see waves at house height above you.....
I found closing my eyes and screaming worked best.

[s/v Beth]

Thanks Weavis, I am starting to breath now....

[Polux]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I try to be polite and subtle to you guys and you get bent all out of shape. 44, we recently had winds of 74 knts and waves/swells averaging over 30 feet (10 meters) And these conditions did not even make news other than locally because they are normal for this time of the years. With waves of 10 meters, NOAH states that 10% will be twice the height (20meters) and a few will be much larger. OK smart guy- are you all comfortable and funny in those waves?
And don't tell me you will just sail out of them with your fast cat, because it is worse near the shore (under the 100 foot mark) when they start breaking. No, as mentioned before, you have to stay out there until things calm down.
Now, trip planning does eliminate most of the problems I agree. But we got caught in a gale at 0400 in August off the Washington coast last summer, with confused seas and high winds. No harbors, no where to go for protection, and no other boats within 25 km's. I don't want my boat coming apart under such conditions- that is why I ask the question, not because I have unfairly painted your boat as a flipper.

I hope not with winds of 74Knts and 10/20 meters waves. What were the conditions you were referring to on that gale?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by weavis

..
It is a strange and awesome sight to see waves at house height above you.....
I found closing my eyes and screaming worked best.

Last summer I tried to convince my wife to film some very nasty conditions we were sailing in. I couldn't leave the wheel. She refused because she was not able to look at the waves

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Polux

You don't need a racing boat to surf waves. Any modern performance cruiser will do that, even small modern daysailers are able to do that:

Like this

Boat not surfing

and

even in flat water

and

sometimes half a metre is too much to surf

and of course when you really need a good surfing boat is crossing a bar Like this

Of course you could always do it

Like this instead

you choose.

[Factor]

You think maybe we can talk about tris and cats now Polux, or are we going to spend eternity getting told that multihulls are stupid?

[deckofficer]

newt,

Too bad the Newick that sparau shared on this thread was $395K Australian. It was much better equipped for serious cruising than the Hammerhead 54's, and I'm sure the performance was on a par with the 54. If it was being offered at $250k like Hecla sold at, it would be the boat IMHO.

I trust you will find something, and as the discerning sailor that you are, whatever you get I'll be a bit jealous.

This might be too old for your tastes, but of all the current offerings, it holds my interest.

1983 Custom Shuttleworth Fast Cruising Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I'm a fan of Shuttleworth, Newick, Grainger, White, Schionning, Tennant, and Hill.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Factor

Like this
...... you choose.

At least they broach, they do not capsize with wind gusts and when capsized by a big breaking wave they do not stay capsized. What's the point of your post?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4UXmre_aoM

[Cavalier MK2]

A well built multihull won't break up in those conditions. I'd want a drogue or chute handy but what to use if anything has to be determined at the time for the actual conditions.

The west coast can be nasty, for the sailor that needs lots of reassurance I'd recommend a trailerable tri to skip it and perhaps keeping the mono you are used to for banging around offshore. There is a different skill set to learn, a multihull sits on top of the water and dissipates force by sliding with it, light weight and boards up are important. The best way for any boat to take on rough weather is to stay out of it. Ditching the schedule is the best way to plan because Mother Nature doesn't care what you have marked on your calender.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I try to be polite and subtle to you guys and you get bent all out of shape. 44, we recently had winds of 74 knts and waves/swells averaging over 30 feet (10 meters) And these conditions did not even make news other than locally because they are normal for this time of the years. With waves of 10 meters, NOAH states that 10% will be twice the height (20meters) and a few will be much larger. OK smart guy- are you all comfortable and funny in those waves?
And don't tell me you will just sail out of them with your fast cat, because it is worse near the shore (under the 100 foot mark) when they start breaking. No, as mentioned before, you have to stay out there until things calm down.
Now, trip planning does eliminate most of the problems I agree. But we got caught in a gale at 0400 in August off the Washington coast last summer, with confused seas and high winds. No harbors, no where to go for protection, and no other boats within 25 km's. I don't want my boat coming apart under such conditions- that is why I ask the question, not because I have unfairly painted your boat as a flipper.

Stick with your mono.

We've answered your questions, you're still not satisfied. Obviously you don't think a multihull can handle the conditions you consider everyday.

No doubt you've read this: Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article

But it doesn't matter. You're convinced multihulls are death traps, so don't buy one.

[s/v Beth]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We've answered your questions, you're still not satisfied. Obviously you don't think a multihull can handle the conditions you consider everyday.

No doubt you've read this: Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article

But it doesn't matter. You're convinced multihulls are death traps, so don't buy one.

Not at all 44. But you are right, I try to anticipate conditions. I am just asking what you would do in adverse conditions that are not rare up here. I think a good offshore multi can handle these conditions, but I want to know what you actually do, not just endless "it can handle it reassurances."
For example:
I do carry series drogues and know how to heave to on my boat. I keep everyone tied in (should the conditions be like the video) and I know my best approaches for the bank. Do I need additional skills on a Tri, different skills on a Cat?
I see both sailing on the inside passage, but rarely offshore. This is my concern.
BTW- my gale was just that- a gale. Nothing like winter conditions out here. Confused seas were less than 20 feet.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Not at all 44. But you are right, I try to anticipate conditions. I am just asking what you would do in adverse conditions that are not rare up here. I think a good offshore multi can handle these conditions, but I want to know what you actually do, not just endless "it can handle it reassurances."
For example:
I do carry series drogues and know how to heave to on my boat. I keep everyone tied in (should the conditions be like the video) and I know my best approaches for the bank. Do I need additional skills on a Tri, different skills on a Cat?
I see both sailing on the inside passage, but rarely offshore. This is my concern.
BTW- my gale was just that- a gale. Nothing like winter conditions out here. Confused seas were less than 20 feet.

There is only one answer to this.

You will have to go sail one in adverse conditions. I dont have the same differential between vessels that most have. Ive been throwing up in motor cruisers and monos and multis alike, and yet felt safe in all three marques in nasty weather.

In my mind there is no difference in the safety aspects of sailing ANY of them in a good build. They just are different.

I dont like certain Multis but that has nothing to do with their ability to withstand weather. I dont like certain monos or motorsailors but again........ most of them will long outlast my ability to withstand weather.

Its about fitting the vessel out correctly to be the right boat for the circumstances. Id definitely be happy in a multi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFqm48C2BPk

[44'cruisingcat]

Personally, in extreme conditions I'd use a sea anchor. Running before a drogue is another good strategy, but requires sea room.


A sea anchor must be properly sized and deployed though. There are some "disaster stories" but in reality they are generally about people who had undersized anchors or used old cargo parachutes etc.


The cat's in the Queen's birthday storm survived by simply lying ahull, which most would say isn't the best strategy.


A wave big enough to roll a cat will be bigger than the one needed to roll a similar sized mono. So if the waves haven't rolled your mono yet, you're unlikely to roll a multi.


We always hear about how the mono will "just pop right back up" but the reality is a bit different. It might be right-side-up, but it will almost certainly be dismasted, most likely have steering damage, and an inoperable engine. Without it's rig it will be far more likely to roll again.


The crew having rolled through 360 degrees are very likely to have suffered severe injuries. And that's just the first roll.