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Old 28-12-2014, 15:20   #16
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Wow, never thought there would be consensus, esp. where ocean motion is concerned. And why would a FP be less likely to flip? Just so much heavier?
And ownership- are the DF's just higher quality? What makes them so sought after? I tried to get two in the same price range.
I honestly don't know which would be less likely to flip. Smart cruising cat and cruising tri sailors don't worry about capsizes. Otherwise, we may not be out there.

You may have picked the wrong cat in your comparison. Choose a more respected cat from build quality and/or performance orientation and you'd have a better either/or choice. Cost may not necessarily be the equalizer. You chose a charter targeted, mass production cat vs an upscale, sophisticated, owner targeted tri. Apples and mangos. Or mangoes?

A cruising tri, by its nature, is performance oriented. It would have to be much bigger to "equal" the cruising (live aboard) capabilities of a performance oriented cat. It will probably still sail circles around the cat. A better comparison would be tri vs mono. The amas just replace the keel......

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Old 28-12-2014, 16:41   #17
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

The tri is much smaller than the cat, but I figured longer water length would maybe make the performance closer. Its true I have very little experience with these boats.
I see in a tri-
more spirited performance
a bit more stability per weight
simpler systems?
cat- much more room- more of a floating home,
bit more of a dog (no pun intended)
seaworthiness could go either way
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Old 28-12-2014, 16:55   #18
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

Quote:
I see in a tri-

more spirited performance
Generally, yes.

Quote:
a bit more stability per weight
Probably.

Quote:
simpler systems?
Yes, but this doesn't make it a better cruiser.

Quote:
cat- much more room- more of a floating home,
Yes.

Quote:
bit more of a dog (no pun intended)
Yes, covered by "spirited performance" above.

Quote:
seaworthiness could go either way
Yes. But I'd argue the larger cat is more comfortable on passage and at anchor.

Again, the more meaningful comparison would be tri vs mono. Compare the center hull of a tri to the same size (length) mono.

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Old 28-12-2014, 17:58   #19
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

Compare a Neel 45 Tri with a 40 or 45 Cat.

THAT is a fair comparison.
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Old 28-12-2014, 18:12   #20
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

..Neel 45 vs. SIG 45....
The SIG literally can fly..
I still preferred the Neel....
..hope I have the money to afford it.. one or the other...
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Old 28-12-2014, 18:28   #21
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

newt,

If you can wangle it, try going out in about 20-25 knots in both, and see how you react to the motion on all points of sail. My concern is that as an experienced monohull sailor, you may not like the twitchy bobble you may encounter with both the tri's and the cats, although, to be honest, the tri's bobble more at anchor than cats. If you have no problems with the motion, then you're good to go.

A.
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Old 28-12-2014, 18:39   #22
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
newt,

If you can wangle it, try going out in about 20-25 knots in both, and see how you react to the motion on all points of sail. My concern is that as an experienced monohull sailor, you may not like the twitchy bobble you may encounter with both the tri's and the cats, although, to be honest, the tri's bobble more at anchor than cats. If you have no problems with the motion, then you're good to go.

A.
Twitchy bobble?

Spluttering coffee here. Thanks for the laugh.
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Old 28-12-2014, 18:56   #23
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

Andreas -
I find the cat to be more comfortable due to the larger living space.
I prefer my tri when sailing, but I feel that is at least partly due to the increased size (40'loa/26'boa vs. 36'loa/17'6"boa). I spent a lot of years on a 45' cat and it was quite comfortable when under way.

Roy -
To the best of my knowledge the tri was built circa 1987 in Ft. Lauderdale.
I do not know the original name. She was named "Trice" when I bought her about 3&1/2 years ago in Virginia.
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Old 28-12-2014, 19:07   #24
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Originally Posted by Training Wheels View Post
FP
FP
DF!!!
DF!!!
Yes, I Agree, even if the choice of one over the other would be a personal choice.

newt it does not make sense to compare the stability of two multihulls with such a difference in displacement and size: The Dragonfly 35 weights about half of the 43ft Fountaine Pajot Belize and it is a much smaller boat.

That would be not very different than comparing regarding stability two modern monohulls, one with 35ft the other with 43ft, having the one with 43ft almost twice the weight. The 35 light monohull could be comparatively a much better boat but the heavier 43ft would always have a bigger overall stability, assuming both boats are relatively well designed.

Now, if you compare the stability of a modern performance cat with 35ft and about the same weight with the Dragonfly 35, that would make sense and perhaps you could take some conclusions from there. Most cats with 35ft with the weight of the Dragonfly 35 don't reunite stability conditions to be RCD certified as class A sailboats, while even the smaller Dragonfly 32 is certified as Class A.

If the offshore seaworthiness of the Dragonfly 35 is not enough to satisfy your safety criteria, then chose as example a Dragonfly 1200:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001...es#.VKC66V4OjA
Dragonfly Trimarans by Quorning Boats of Denmark | DRAGONFLY 1200 Presentation
http://www.trimarans.com/pdf-archive...ay2003_ita.pdf


This one with more displacement than the 35, but still less than the Fountaine Pajot would somewhat compensate that smaller weight with a bigger beam (8.60m to 7.0m) and a lower CG. The overall stability of the two boats should not be much different, the Dragonfly would be faster and will give you more time to react near a capsize situation, it will announce it more clearly and can take more heel without danger.

But the Dragonfly 35 (a more modern boat) will be faster and the 32 even faster than the 35.

But off course, the reason you don't see many is that it is a hugely expensive boat. As I have said on a previous thread, modern trimarans are more complex to build than catamarans, are more expensive and offer less interior space.
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Old 28-12-2014, 19:22   #25
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
newt,

If you can wangle it, try going out in about 20-25 knots in both, and see how you react to the motion on all points of sail. My concern is that as an experienced monohull sailor, you may not like the twitchy bobble you may encounter with both the tri's and the cats, although, to be honest, the tri's bobble more at anchor than cats. If you have no problems with the motion, then you're good to go.

A.

I understand what you're saying, yet most owners of multis were once experianced fed monohull owners
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Old 28-12-2014, 19:38   #26
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Compare a Neel 45 Tri with a 40 or 45 Cat.

THAT is a fair comparison.
Of about the same weight, I agree that is a fair comparison, but size for size.

They say this on Neel site: "The width of NEEL trimarans is an important factor for safety on the high seas because it is a guarantee of stability"
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Old 28-12-2014, 19:42   #27
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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I understand what you're saying, yet most owners of multis were once experianced fed monohull owners
And here I thought they were all former powerboaters or newbies!?
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Old 28-12-2014, 19:54   #28
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Of about the same weight, I agree that is a fair comparison, but size for size.

They say this on Neel site: "The width of NEEL trimarans is an important factor for safety on the high seas because it is a guarantee of stability"
?
Catamarans are also balanced width X length......
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Old 28-12-2014, 20:19   #29
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

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?
Catamarans are also balanced width X length......
I am not sure if I understand what you mean. They say this :"The width of NEEL trimarans is an important factor for safety on the high seas because it is a guarantee of stability" on the Neel site because their boats, as generically trimarans, size by size, have more beam then Catamarans. For instance a Lagoon 450 has of beam 7.84m a Neel 45 8.53m, a FP Helia 44 7.40m, a Catana 47 7.64m, a Leopard 44 7.25m, an Outremer 45 7.1m.

An increased beam gives more stability to a multihull, all other things being equal.
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Old 28-12-2014, 20:27   #30
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Re: Tri's or Cat's?

I think a tri would be easier for a monohull sailor to get a handle on as there is more feel and clues to overpowering from the lee ama. Cats can seem like sailing a dock for feel and can get closer to the limits with less warning. Cruising tris with some ama in the water compare pretty well to cats at anchor, the ones with the ama out of the water or just kissing the surface will see saw back and forth.
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