Trimaran Question

[ssullivan]

Wow... I feel like a kid trying to go into my mother's formal dining room posting here. I've never really been in this area of the forum and I'm tip-toe'ing.

I have a multi-hull question though. I just got a new neighbor - not a personm, but a boat. It's a 45' trimaran and WOW does it look fast. Would love to take it out for a spin.

My question is relating to fenders and the motion of the trimaran at the dock. I see that it likes to shift from one hull to the other from time to time as wakes come by and such. Each time a wake goes by, I hear various thuds and noises coming from the tri. One thing is the fenders constantly swinging away from and then thudding on the hull. It's not overly annoying from inside my boat, but is that sound annoying when you are aboard a tri?

Cool looking boat though. I'll scope out the brand tomorrow when it's light out.

[Tropic Cat]

Sean,

Are ya lost?

Mono area is that way ------->

LOL

Rick in Florida

Sean, sounds like one of those modern high tech super trimarans/ Can't tell you much about those, but I have sepnt a little time dockside on big cruising tris, and there was no issue. the tris I have been on keep both ammas firmly in the water, so the motion is not slapping back and forth. I have seen what you are talking about on the big modern tris like the Jeaneau's. It would probably get annoying, but I am sure I could get over it when I hit 20 kts

[Steve Rust]

Kai is right on with his response. A good cruising tri will have enough ama in the water to stop rocking from side to side. The only time I have had something close to this happen was when I had the boat completely emptied out and the rig, mast and all, off the boat. She became a little lively at the dock but still kept both amas in the water.
The high performance racing trimarans are in many respects quite differant than the true cruisers. With them you will see the boat floating on it's main hull with the amas barely touching the water. They will have high displacement amas (200% or more) that allow the boat to sail on one ama with the main hull clear of the water. You will get an exciting, fast, wet, and bumpy ride, one you will probably never forget.
IMO the older boats make better cruisers as the new boats seem to be evolving more towards the sport boat, high performance racing end of the spectrum. These new boats would make my old girl look like she was dragging a bucket but the older boats have a better payload capacity and a smoother ride. People will go out for a fast, wet, wild ride on a F-27 and think all trimarans are like that but there are as many differant types as with any other kind of boat.
I would be curious to find out what the design of your neighbor's boat is.

[cat man do]

Post a pic Sean.

Steve I can't understand your comments on new tri's not being much chop for cruising. I'm no expert on tri's, but have a fair bit of knowledge on multi's in general, and one of the main things I believe is there got to be light, it's a power to weight thing.

There was A 50 ft Newick tri built here not long ago that was a cruiser and I imagine would have been designed around early 80s construction techniques, like foam core , polyester resin, woven rovings and chopped strand mat. I don't know what it's design weight would have been, but lets say for argument's sake it was 7000kg dry and 8500kg loaded.

Now if you built that same tri today using foam,kevlar /epoxy or even a light timber core/E glass and epoxy the same boat would probably be more like 5500 to 6000kg dry and 8500 loaded.

There fore you could carry 1000kg of more crap and still be on it's lines or carry same as before and have a lighter faster and I believe stronger cruiser .

Just my thought's as this is what works for Cat's so don't see why it would be different for Tri's.

I believe ther are 4 categories in boats and they shoudn't all be tarred with the same brush. They are
1] Cruisers
2] Cruiser/racer
3] Racer/cruiser
4] Racer

I realize this this is more a construction than design comment, but I believe it still applies.

Dave

Dave, my guess would be that it is not how they build them as much as what they build 20 years ago most of the tris built were cruisers. Now, it seems they are leaving the cruising designs to the cats, and most of the major brand tri designs are set around racing or weekend warriors like the F-27. I agree that if you were to take a Sea Runner and build it from carbon fiber, it would be one heck of a cruising boat, but people just do not seem to be putting that kind of money into cruising designs.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I agree that if you were to take a Sea Runner and build it from carbon fiber, it would be one heck of a cruising boat, but people just do not seem to be putting that kind of money into cruising designs.

I mostly agree with you there Kai, infact I found bugger all on the net on what I'd consider a true modern cruising tri, maybe a contour 50?

As I said though there are a few who build one off's for there own need's like the Newick mentioned earlier.

I think as tri's seem to cost more to build, those that buy a new one off the shelf may be restricted in price to buying something under 32 ft therefore maybe not considered large enough as a cruiser.

I suppose that is why cats are so popular.

Which cat would be considered a better cruiser and why?

A] A 40 ft Schionning/ Grainger style modern composite

B] A 40 ft Prout/ Catalac style of heavy glass style

Should probably be a seperate thread, but thought I'd ask here for now if no objections.

In no way meant as a dig at any style in particular, Just curious to northern hemisphere way of thinking on the subject.

Dave

Can't tell you much about cats. Not my forte'. Here is a cool link to some trimaran videos. They are large downloads, so I would recommend a fast connection. http://www.corsairmarine.com/0TrimaranIndex.htm

[ssullivan]

Here is the trimaran in question:

http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/race_results/index.php

It's the top two pictures on that link. Seems like a hell of a boat, from what I can tell. Couldn't find any of these on Yachtworld, and couldn't take a picture since my digital camera broke. Also, I don't think I could fit the whole thing in frame.

This is the *exact* boat next to me, not a sistership.

[Steve Rust]

Dave
I understand where you are coming from on the Newick example taking an older design and built it out of modern composits. What I think happens with the new designs is that the hulls get slimmed down for better performance so you may engineer 1500 lbs. out of the boat but you have not increased it's payload capacity. As an example a Constant Camber 40 is in many respects an updated Searunner 40. It is 1000-1500 lbs lighter but the Searunner has 1000lbs more payload according to the design specs. The CC40 with it's slimmer hull shape probably performs better and with a 2400lb payload can still carry a decent load for cruising. The Searunner 40 is around 35+ years old and the CC40 about 20 so they are both fairly older designs. To get a decent payload on the slim hulls of the new designs they seem to be making them longer.
One aspect of building them lighter is that enables you to increase the bouyancy of the amas and that in turn allows for more sail area. This may tend to give a bumpier ride under some conditions as the ama wants to go over the top of eveything as opposed to cutting thru some of the chop like an older design with 100-130% displacement amas.

[ssullivan]

Nobody commented on the boat yet? Is it just me, or does this boat seem like a really cool tri? I'm sitting here drooling. ~

[Talbot]

post asked about preferences for a long distane cruising cat. You cant really lump a catalac and a prout in the same line unless you have stated (as you did) a 40 ft boat. The 12 metre catalac is a great and undervalued boat, and fit to stand alongside the Prout. The smaller Catalacs are perfectly fine for tradewind sailing, but their winward potential is poor by comparison with equivalent Prouts, Their weight carrying capacity is also a lot les, but then they are a lot cheaper, and in their day where at the absolute cutting edge of cat design. Unfortunately, due to bankruptcy problems, the catalac designs were never able to mature.
The Prout designs however, did come a long way, and it is their introduction of the LARS keel that made the most difference. It is a design that has proven to be exceedingly good in bad weather, and a Prout is certainly my preferred chariot.

I am not a fan of go faster designs for long distance short handed sailing. They have their place, and are fantastic in 50-100nm sprints, or indeed anywhere within the reliable forecast period.

Sean, the Cris White designs are popular in some circles. They are an attempt at blending the older cruising designs with the newer high tech stuff in my opinion. Not my taste, but they seem to sail well by all accounts. A mutual friend of mine and Wheels just did a crossing on one, and she had much good to say about the boat.

[cat man do]

G'day Sean, just got out of bed and having a cuppa. Had a look at that explorer 44 and it is what I would have considered to be a cruiser/racer tri not an all out racer by any stretch, and not a liveaboard,unless living light. Quite a nice looking craft, hull shape similar to my hulls.

Hi, Talbot, I still can't uderstand you're thoughts on these heavily constructed older designs. surely you can't think it's better to have a cat that sails slow.
These faster deigns are'nt racers, but would be considered cruisers in my eyes. They have good payload capacity, are incredibly strong, infact tests done on some forms of composite construction shows it to be better than solid glass in many respects......... if done correctly, and more importantly have the abilility to out run any shitty weather instead of getting caught in it. Surely this is a good thing.

If things start getting a bit hairy speed wise one can reef heavily, put out a drogue or in fact tough it out under parachute anchor if fatigued.
I know I would rather have the option to go fast and out run weather instead of being forced into a beating.

But keep it coming , as I said earlier I'm interested in the Northern Hemisphere aspect compared to us Southerners.

Dave

PS Now my bloody coffee's cold