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Old 06-11-2012, 07:29   #1456
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The 2 ama hatches (900mm x 600mm) cost 1500 AUD plus 300AUD for delivery.


Jon[/QUOTE]

You Aussie blokes really don't know what to do with all the money you have these days! I'll put the entire deck on my Vardo for $1800 including nice second-hand Lewmar hatches.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:30   #1457
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sassarassa,
It may be too late, but its best to use GREY primer. LP paint pros don't like to, because its harder to cover with white topcoat, but if you put on 3 coats of white topcoat, (2 is not enough), it will cover fine. It also helps find and cover the thin spots.

10 years ago... I had to do a re-paint earlier than expected, (@ just 8 years old), because of very fine little cracks. The paint never failed, and cracks filled with primer the next time, so it was not a disaster, just a lot of work.

The places without cracks were the underwings, (which I painted this summer, after it was 18 years old), and the cabins wide green stripe. (Which I changed to a perimeter pin stripe).

I experimented quite a bit, and realized that it was not a paint issue at all, it was that the epoxy surface had shrunk, underneath the paint, from UV exposure. The green stripe was opaque, where as the rest of the white paint is only about 50% opaque, at best.

As an experiment, I took a 1' X 2" piece of clear plexiglass, sanded it, and painted one 1' square with grey primer, and the other 1' square next to it with white primer. Then hot coated the white topcoat over this entire1 X 2' piece. It looked identical, one square VS the other, but not so when held up to the Sun. Then the grey primered side was total shade, where as the white primered side was no more than putting sun glasses on the epoxy surface its intended to protect. The Sun shone right through! The grey primer side was cooler too...

EPOXY MUST BE KEPT OUT OF THE SUN! It is superior in many ways, but this is its "Achilles heel".

So, if going to the trouble to use LP paint systems, grey primer can stretch the lifespan of the epoxy surface, thus the paint job, by 300%! The 18 year old paint job we just re-did under the wings, should be good for another 30 years now. Above decks, IF you use grey primer, 15 years between paint jobs is quite possible, IF you can live with it eventually looking flat, about like gelcoat. IMO, It is time and money well spent!

BTW... For you multi decade Searunner owners: With properly applied LPs and who used GREY primer over a sound epoxy surface, in all future re-paints NO primer is required. (This may be contrary to what THEY say)... The paint never fails or peels, just eventually chalks and gets thin. A light but thorough scuff with 320 or a ScotchBrite, then topcoats, is plenty.

M.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:51   #1458
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I am still alive and kicking! Have not had much of a chance to keep up here, as my internet time is so limited on the big boats.

I will be in San Carlos starting next week. The sale fell through on Corazon, so I get to go down and check her out, and see how she weathered another "Pizza Oven" summer in Mexico.

I have been informed the deck is paint is showing signs of aging, and I may be due for a repaint. I know this is not just a simple thing (like it used to be?) I am a little surprised an new Awl-Grip deck would show signs (cracks) we call the zippers in Mexico, after 3 years, or maybe 4 I cannot recall exactly.
Anyhow, is certainly part of owning a plywood/epoxy/fiberglass covered boat. Like repairing surfboards!
I look fwd. to learning a new step on this one.

Non-slip Safety Coating for Your Boat or Ship

Anti-skid Boat Decks from Pachena LLC - KiwiGrip anti-slip deck coating

Marine | Montana Elastomers

I thought of this kind of deck paint system, before we rolled the last stuff. Anyone have any experience with it?

On the road, will be checking in!

Jack
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:34   #1459
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jack,
Welcome back...

"Zippers" are always in the glass job, not the paint. They're usually from underglassed or under epoxy sealed radii. (I use 3 staggered layers of bias cut or bi-axial fabric on these, minimum) on all of them "above decks". More glass than this, on the hull chines, elbows, seams, etc... Zippers can also happen near an opening, like a piece of hardware's insufficiently sealed fastening holes, when the caulk fails. Small amounts of water can get in, and the wood swells, eventually rupturing the glass, and it gets bigger.

Radii are the most vulnerable areas because they are a "hard spot", kinda sticking out, and because the ply's edge grain there, wicks moisture into the laminate, much further than face grain ply does. And, DAMN, do these boats have hundreds of feet of radii!

I suspect that your paint problem is a combination of paint failure and glass or epoxy failure. ALL boat projects that leave the epoxy exposed to the Sun for months, need to be under a shelter of some kind, or UV damage will effect the surface of the epoxy! In the old days, this was less of an issue, because they used Polyester resin. Polyester is inferior in many ways, but is more resistant to UVs.

You could have UV damage from before painting, or... as I recently posted, from after painting, if there were only two top coats, or you used white primer. That combination of white primer, sanded till thin, followed by just two topcoats of white paint... over an epoxy surface, is UV damage waiting to happen!

There is also the issue of paint's failure to bond from insufficient prep. Before coating an epoxy / glassed hull with more epoxy, OR paint, it must be washed, solvent washed, sanded to a 100% glaze with NO shiny spots, solvent washed again, and then not touched (without gloves), until primed and painted. There is NO chemical bond, but if prepped properly, kept out of the sun in the process of your work, and properly primed and painted, LPs do not fail in the manner you describe. They just chalk and get thinner over time. The bond should remain 100%.

Some things like flattening paste, (which I used on my SC28), and excessive use of accelerator, can shorten the life of the paint, but it would still just chalk and get thin, a year sooner.

NONSKID:

I still use GripTex in the paint, (5 thin coats, mostly rolled on), and it turns out soo non skid, that I'm now rolling on a couple of "just THINNED topcoats" over it, to make it easier to keep clean. I lose some non skid effectiveness, but the turds rinse off better!

I will stick with what I know, but... I have seen a couple of boats done with KiwiGrip. It looks really nice, and is fairly consistent, on monohulls, with clearly defined walkways, well separated at all borders from hardware, hatches, etc. The non skid, is not IN the mix, it is a texture induced with a velcro looking roller, by the action of the roller. So, IF you can't roll fast, without having to work up to hatches and corners, it becomes a problem. If KiwiGrip is applied in these tight spots with a brush, (like I've done successfully with an AwlGrip & gripTex mix), then it will apply smooth. (= not nonskid) The special roller alone makes the little stalagmites. I have asked my friends who used it, the lifespan of KiwiGrip, and if it ever actually lifts when old, and they don't know, yet... Too new.

My heart goes out to ya. There is no bummer like a paint bummer.

Best of luck with it,
M.

P.S. I've only had a few zippers over the years, and they were both next to a screw hole, with a small piece of hardware, that allowed water in after 10 years or more. Since it was a screw, and not bolt, I didn't have the hole lined with epoxy, just one pre-coat, and bedded it down in caulk. It is rare enough, that I just repair the zipper & touch up the paint, like this...
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Old 07-11-2012, 13:33   #1460
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

As always, THANKS MARK! You are amazing! Excellent in all you do.....

Here are a few shots an outside party took. I will have much better when I get down there. I have not seen the boat in quite some time.

Where can I get a new rubber boot Mark? I will have the frame around it fabbed up out of thin SS I think, or similar. Mexico has great machine shops for cheap...:-)

The patch with the wrong paint over it was a quick repair after we stuck the nose of the skiff in the underwing in back while tugboating it into the haul out. The place takes a sharp 90 degree in the wind usually to make it in, I use my 16ft. Hobie Skiff as a tug and push. Hauled out, patched it and took off....:-0

The scratch on the bottom is about 2 or less inches long. an easy fix. The deck you can see where it is on the radius, and another spot on the flat.....shoot having a project like this may convince me to keep the lil' darlin. we'll see, thanks!Click image for larger version

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Old 07-11-2012, 14:44   #1461
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Out of town friends showed up Jack. I'll get back to you with that...

M.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:39   #1462
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Jack:

I've cut and pasted the old post below, about the transom boot. (order info too)... ANY Volvo commercial truck part supplier can send you one, but go by the model #, NOT the internet photo, which is wrong. I suggest bonding in a PVC "ring" on your square tiller arm, as pictured and described below. It is easy, and makes for a perfect leak free installation. Any leaks under this boot, gets trapped between walls in the double wall transom, with bad results, so they are best to be avoided...

About the trim ring:

Micarta (Sheet phenolic) 1/4" thick, works great, and needs no epoxy coating or paint. It glues well too. If that's hard to find, you can buy or make a square foot of 1/4" thick sheet fiberglass, and that will also work. (but needs painting).

The advantage of these materials over thin SS sheet, is that the above is more conformable to the curves here, they are thicker, lighter, glues better, and is more easily shaped.

You want gentile 1/8" radii (all around), on the top and bottom side. It will then be FAR less likely to cut the thin flange on the rubber boot, (VS thinner metal sheet).

I make the trim ring, (two hours), then lay the boot down, face up. Now, contact cement the top surface of the boot's rubber flange, and the bottom surface of the trim ring. Let dry & repeat... After 20 minutes or so, carefully glue the trim ring down to the flange. (This takes two people, and yes, it can be removed later when replacing the boot).

Next, you caulk the boot's base flange to the transom. (#10 machine screws are fine). DO NOT use too much pressure, or you can EASILY crush the flange. Just go in a circle, (like torquing down the head of an engine), and get it snug, no more.

An all ss AWAB hose clamp over the boot's round "smaller" opening, completes the installation.

Its all very easy stuff, and really works! BTW... The old phenolic sheet trim here, looks old because it is (18 years). It "weathers" but lasts a LONG time.

M.


PREVIOUS POST:

While in the boatyard recently, we also needed to change out the rudder's 8 year old rubber gear shift boot, for the tiller arm pass through. I looked hard to find these! It is VOLVO truck part # 8169281. The view of this, which is available on the internet, is universally WRONG, and pictures a small round boot. Ignore the diagram. That model # looks like this photo below.

If you have a square tiller arm, and bond in a schedule 40 PVC ring (made from sewer pipe), the fit with this boot is PERFECT!

I gave the old "surface cracked boot" a destruction test recently, and without a knife, I CAN'T! It was probably good for several more years. Nevertheless, I have two spares, and one goes cruising with us. (I always buy spares of small but important items, that wear out, and may become obsolete)...

The outside of the boot's base is glued to a Micarta trim ring, which is then caulked and bolted to the transom. The boot's outer "round end" is hose clamped to that tiller arm's PVC bonded in trim ring, with a wrap of 1/16", double sided, peel n stick foam tape... in the interface.

There ya go... a 10+ year, totally watertight, flexible boot for a Searunner tiller arm. Its the best solution that I've seen so far, and easy to replace. (I will try to discipline myself to keep 303 Protectant on this one)...
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Old 08-11-2012, 20:58   #1463
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Got the new rubber Volvo truck boot ordered, and will pick it up at my Dad's in AZ. on my way down. Just like you said Mark, right numbers! Thanks! I am looking fwd. to getting south, my friends tell me it is still plenty warm for swimming and hanging in the water. we have a big temp. swing in water temp. 90+ degrees in Aug. dawn 58-60 in January...:-)
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:00   #1464
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Great to have you back Jmolan
You should maybe keep this tri its meant to be yours
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:43   #1465
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If Jack does put Corazon back on the market, I would recommend him as an honest person to do business with.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:35   #1466
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
Got the new rubber Volvo truck boot ordered, and will pick it up at my Dad's in AZ. on my way down. Just like you said Mark, right numbers! Thanks! I am looking fwd. to getting south, my friends tell me it is still plenty warm for swimming and hanging in the water. we have a big temp. swing in water temp. 90+ degrees in Aug. dawn 58-60 in January...:-)

I'm jealous Jack. Wish we were headed south right now! Our marina is starting to empty out, due to boats headed south to the Bahamas for the winter...

Glad to help on that rubber boot issue. Originally, I had to walk the isles at several truck part warehouses, and this required a lot of "convincing" on my part. They were not used to people like me, who didn't know what they wanted, but would know it when they see it.

Then, when I needed spares, I searched the web, and the old model # ALWAYS popped up a diagram of a smaller, round, rubber boot. Finally, I found a guy who would pull one from the shelf, and describe it to me on the phone, (dimensions, shape, number of holes, etc.) In searching for an answer, I was told that many of their photos or diagrams, are a generic representation of the type, not meant to be accurate! Go-figger.

Sometimes, persistence works.

For anyone switching to these, I would get several. (In case they become obsolete) Things like this just might, although this model hasn't changed in 20 years! If kept in a freezer baggie, in a box, they store fine.

Twice I changed out mine at 8 years old, due to worrisome surface cracks, but the last one I removed passed an attempted "destruction test", nonetheless. I suspect that with seasonal applications of 303 Aerospace Protectent, 10 years is a reasonable change out interval.

Enjoy your vacation!

M.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:27   #1467
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I use a Hurst transmission Super Boot, available at nearby auto parts stores. It has a rectangular opening, easier to install than fitting the round collar. I change it every ten years, whether it needs it or not.
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Old 09-11-2012, 13:19   #1468
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Keeping water out of that spot is a very good idea. These Searunners do float high so its not that often you get blue water smashing into the transom. I think that the most vonuable area is under the wings where you may get cracking of ply under huge wave movement. 10 metre waves might just give these searunners a bit of run for their money. Nice pics you guys ..... neat finishings.
Looking forward to some sailing this summer here in the Hauraki Gulf. Auckland. NZ
Cant beat this place.....
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Old 09-11-2012, 13:36   #1469
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In 10 mtr waves you will soon know if she is overloaded or not. If she is light, she can tiptoe around. And if you get seriously jumped on, she can pop up. Weigh her down And all this lovely behavior takes a serious turn. Lightly built tri, (Searunners are built tough but still light) well..take a lightly built boat, weigh it down and you will have a boring, sluggish, and potentially dangerous boat....high armpits and wings will take a beating because they are too close to the water. And the AMA and main hull cannot rise fast enough or far enough due to the excessive weight of things you thought you needed...:-)

I got the phenolic, getting stoked to be in the sun!
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Old 09-11-2012, 14:15   #1470
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Yes Jmolan but if she is too light she will blow over too on the crest of the wave. I like to have some weight in the ama too meaning something more than just sails. I like to have weight down low centre middle of the main hull and i like to have both para anchor and drogue for different reasons. Saying all that without much experience doesnt mean much but its a good start for me. Cruising is where i shall be heading.
who knows might even come around your ways.....
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