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Old 02-09-2012, 02:13   #1381
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey Jmolan
Before you get on ya bike...
Tell us what will be your next sailing yacht.
And be honest....
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:09   #1382
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Probably not a yacht.
I drive a 123' Bering Sea trawler 4 months a year, and a 115' expedition class yacht (converted crab boat) in the Chukchi and Beaufort Sea's, for 6 weeks or so, 400 miles above the Arctic circle. It is very satisfying work.
I love to sail, anything. Windsurfer, dinghy, yacht. Multis over monos by a huge margin.
Shipyards are the worst part of my job. I would rather cross the North Pacific in winter than do shipyard. The bigger the boat, the more is involved.
The two boats I drive are 123' and 108'(originally) the designer told me the 123' is 35% more volume.....
To much rambling here sorry. I love Searunner and would keep mine or get another one if I like to cruise. But I am on the water 5 months a year in world class functional vessels, every electronic, gear, food you could ask for. in very exotic places. We have a waterfront home. I have had cruising friends over and they ask "why go anywhere else"
I. Say all this not to boast, but to reference why I disliked cruising. For me, it is always about the ride. Be it boat, bike, whatever. I love to build up a machine. Cruising for me became a chore. Getting water, going in for food. Trying to find internet, I was used to more convenience I guess. Adventure is there, but I feel like I get plenty of that in my job.
I would like a big Bluebird motor home. But I would build it up, and not like camping I am afraid. I would love to drive it....
So, day sailing at the house for me, the Searunner is perfect as it gets for cruising. I just am not going cruising .
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:16   #1383
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Congratulations Icedog!!
We coveted Corazon for a long time. She was on the wrong coast for us.....
Good luck to you, your wife and giant dogs.
Please stay active on the forum!
Anna
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:38   #1384
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jack,
have a blast on your bike trip! My bike's rear wheel comes back from the shop next week, then I'll be riding too! Seen your BMW... sweet. I have the hots for the new F700 GS. With lowering, I think even the vertically challenged, like me, could ride it. That will have to wait for a new financial reality though.

Something I should pass on to all...

One note about revelations regarding DUX vs wire. There is an aspect that is seldom discussed, and will not be an issue with Corazon's new owners. This is because they will be sailing consistently in a tropical latitude.

This is also probably not an issue with many modern multihull rigs, that have "composite" masts, unusually STOUT aluminum mast extrusions, and double or triple triatic shroud and stay attachment to the mast, (often to its front... for wing or rotating masts). And it should not be an issue with rigs that are just not "tune sensitive", and regularly sail with the lee side slack.

This issue IS, however, very important, on MANY rigs... like a Searunner with a conventional (but TALL and skinny) rig, like on our Delphys. (I suspect on other Searunners as well).

What is the issue with DUX??? The difference in wire and DUX coefficient of expansion!

With wire rigging, it and the aluminum mast are somewhat similar in the respect of expansion and contraction. The result is that if it is 75 degrees in the afternoon, but only 40 degrees the next morning, the mast and rigging have BOTH contracted at "somewhat" the same rate, so the rig's tune stays about the same. (We have only re-tuned our 316SS wire rig once, in 17 years, and well over 20,000 sea miles). This is with no real rust, meathooks, or "signs"...

The opposite is true with DUX. (And this is besides the "creep" issue, which is a different subject).

Unlike wire, with DUX, the aluminum mast expands and contracts at several times the rate of the synthetic rigging!!! The difference is PRONOUNCED over > 35 degrees!

I noticed this with my DUX runners, (That Collegio made for me)... I might have them banjo tight in the afternoon heat, but when the temperature dropped 35 degrees or more overnight, (which it does here), the runners would then hang "completely slack", actually flopping around in a 8 or 10" circle, with the pressure applied with just 2 fingers!

With our runners having "quick adjust turnbuckles", this is not an issue at all for us, because we only need them really tight when using the staysail, and I can then run out and put a few turns on the turnbuckle. For the rest of the rig, however...

I suspect that in Corazon's tropical climate stomping grounds, you never observed this???

DUX has a lot of advantages for sure, on "some" rigs, but for boats like our Delphys... that incur a WIDE temperature range, and with rigs that have to use "stable shroud tension" to remain in column, (and would otherwise have their upper third fall off dangerously to leeward), then DUX would be a very bad choice for rigging. This would be true for "most" Searunners in general too.

The very short and very stout double triangle rig on my old SC 28 would've been a good candidate for DUX. So is removable staysail rigging that is hooked up, and quickly adjusted each time, (DUX is much BETTER than wire here, because being so light, it doesn't flop around when in the loose "stored" position). DUX "may" also apply to boats with complex rigs like ours, BUT are sailed in a very consistent temperature environment.
For many, however, these expansion/contraction issues must be taken into account.

By using all StaLocs, and filling the cavity with 5200 before their final screw down, we have achieved an exceptional level of reliability and lifespan. I will be changing out my wire next year, (which still looks perfect), and the expensive part, (the StaLocs), will be used over. I have taken them apart before, after 15 years, and IF installed properly, the wire inside is absolutely "pristine", and still shiny!

I love innovation, and IF we had a carbon mast, the DUX would be a great contender for our boat, but with aluminum masts, all of these caveats must be considered.

Again, Enjoy your adventure!

Mark
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:32   #1385
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Anna for your welcome. I plan to be active on the forum and I plan to continue the great work that Jack has done on Corazon. I will let Jack's advice and the survey form a roadmap to how I should proceed. I just wish I could be there now to start, but April will come eventually. Initially we were looking for a cruising sailboat to keep in Costa Rica. As time went by and I kept reading about cruising grounds, I realized that the Sea of Cortez was an ideal location for us, even though we are currently based out of another beautiful place, Playa Zancudo in Costa Rica. Climate, anchorages, costs and proximity to our family all pointed to Mexico being better for us to have a cruising boat and the fact that Corazon is based there was the clincher.

I added some photos to my gallery here and I have a Youtube channel "ktorphy" with slide shows of our place in Costa Rica, Antarctica, and sailing in Costa Rica. Caution:Some Jimmy Buffet music. BTW, the band in the Corazon slide show was one I formed during my last winter at the South Pole. They were one of five bands in a population of 60 people!
The photo is of my grandson and my great danes (the black one is blind) and myself on the beach in Playa Zancudo. Zancudo is a great place to visit if you pass through Golfito as we are a 20 minute boat ride away and its a special place!
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Old 02-09-2012, 13:33   #1386
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Congratulations again Kevin!!!

For your cruising grounds and use, you would be hard pressed to have made a better choice, than Jack's beautiful SR34. I can tell you that a number of people were thinking hard about Corazon, and if you had not bought her...

Searunners' shortcomings will be so much less of an issue down there, kept on a mooring, in the tropics... The Sea of Cortez is a magical cruising ground, sort of like the Bahamas is on our side.

Searunners are such great "tropical" cruisers, and adapt so well to being really ventillated. Just add a dark colored awning, and you will be AMAZED how comfortable they can be. Also, the pesky condensation problems with all older one offs, (especially those with stringers), just go away. As you know... It is the combination of damp & COLD that causes the condensation.

As long as she is in the Sea of Cortez, even termites, (the bane of jungle/river living), should not be an issue.

With Jack's experience, and generous willingness to help you get started, that steep learning curve will have FAR fewer unpleasant consequences. I know that parting must have been difficult for him, but Searunners are so specialized as perfect "cruisers", that if used purely as daysailors, they are just too complicated.

Your YouTube videos are GREAT! The music too. What a life you live!
No matter how your SR adventure goes... Just like Jack, and a number of folks I correspond with, YOU'RE ALREADY THERE MAN! The boat is just the icing on the cake!

I must say, your videos made me pine for being "out there" again, not just doing long weekends at the Cape. And I will... someday.

Life is such an adventure. Here's hoping that with this purchase, yours just gets better and better!

Btw, You got a steal, IMO...

Mark
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Old 02-09-2012, 16:43   #1387
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark Johnson
Thanks for your input with Dux..
Do you use stainless or galvanized for your rigging.
Galvanized is cheaper and shows when you need to replace as apposed to stainless that doesn't show. whats you opinion with that.

Jmolan
I have always enjoyed your input here on this thread so hoping you will hang around for some time. Those pics of mexico look amazing.
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Old 02-09-2012, 18:41   #1388
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Rossad,
I use 316 grade SS. Galvanized IS strong, as well as gives a warning, as you say. It might be fine with NicroPresses, and lashed rigging ends on a Wharram cat, OR a gaff rigged monohull "character boat", but for most modern multihulls, not equal to the lifespan or utility of the mating SS turnbuckles and chainplates. ALSO... Salty SS parts in contact with galvanized parts, creates Zinc loss at the interface! This is why SS shackles in an anchor chain, causes the connecting galvanized links next to it to rust, big time...

The downsides of SS rigging are well known, but the good feature is that IF built right, and sailed within its stress rating, it VERY seldom fails without warning. The failures you hear about, DID give a warning, but the skipper didn't see it! They weren't looking.

The most "hidden" parts would be below the caulk line on the SS chainplates, as well as old swages, if you use them. (Why I prefer StaLocs)...

IF you follow the maintenance schedule I gave for SS chainplate moats, and have StaLocs or equivilent, then your rig's condition is 99% discernible.

Before a crossing, major cruise, or at LEAST once a year, inspect every inch of the rig, from wire, to terminals, to turnbuckles, to cotter pins. If it looks really good, the odds are 99.9% that it IS good.

My extra tall cutter rig, is sailed with a BIG headsail "as a sloop", and puts major stresses on all 4 upper wires. While they are strong enough, they stretch too much for comfort. For this reason, when I change all of the rig's wires, on the 4 uppers, I plan to upsize from 1/4" to 9/32", and from standard 1X19 316 grade SS to 316 Dyform = "compact strand wire". Then I can lower my 1,000 lb. + static preload, lower the stress on the rig, and have less upper mast bend as well.

Besides my own research, a very well known rigger that works in ALL rigging materials, (with NO biases), advised me that in my case... short of the VERY expensive "rod rigging", what I describe above is the best way to go, in achieving a stable, VERY low stretch rig.

For tall, narrow based, multi spreader rigged boats, like our Searunners, that have LOTS of small wires vs a few really big ones, lowest possible stretch and tune stability become paramount... (Far more important than ultimate strength).

Mark

PS: On the subject of preventing dissimilar metal corrosion... Some DUX terminals come with composite sleeves to prevent contact with the SS clevis pins. Otherwise use lots of Tefgel. On my runners, I went one further by making Teflon washers, and gooped these with Tefgel. These were put on the terminals cheeks, so that NO contact was made between the aluminum cheeks and SS mast tangs.
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Old 02-09-2012, 20:59   #1389
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Mark. I am happy to know that condensation from the cold won't be a problem as I plan to stay in warm climates. Judging my some of the great blogs out there I should be able to spend quite a bit of time exploring the Sea of Cortez. I am glad my wife speaks Spanish so well and that I have been learning.
Your posts have always been incredibly helpful and detailed and really set the bar for how to maintain a sailboat. I am sure that I will have many questions going forward. This thread is an amazing repository of knowledge on Searunners...Barring pressing issues that come up during survey, new lifelines and sails start at the top of the list.
-Kevin
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Old 03-09-2012, 00:21   #1390
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

im just posting a interesting interview (for me anyway) with jim,

The Sailing Podcast is an interview with Multihull Designer Jim Brown.
I spoke to Jim in this interview about the history of Multihull design and next week we have the rest of this interview and Jim shares his passion for design and in particular – for hydrofoils.
The Sailing Podcast
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:18   #1391
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http://www.exploringcortez.com/ec_about.html

We have the 1st edition onboard Corazon. This is all we needed, and is on every cruising boat down there....:-)
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:29   #1392
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Mark for your efforts again.
I wish i had the time and put effort into my Searunner.
We had another blast of wind over the weekend hitting 45 knots not unusual around here. I decided to go out to the boat and check it out on the mooring. Very comfy onboard sitting level and straight. I like Searunners just need some more time to work on her.
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Old 03-09-2012, 15:29   #1393
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Glad to help Rossad...

You know, I readily admit to being on the extreme "take good care of it" end of the spectrum. Partly this is because I have been influenced by having spent countless thousands of hours trying to reverse things, for those that didn't "take care of it". The other part, is that I get comfort in knowing that our boat is ready for a major cruise, should world events, or a wild hair, prompt me to strike out on one.

I don't mean obsessing about unnecessary cosmetics. I mean keeping after the things that would make or break a voyage.

As my arthritis slows me down a bit, earlier than it should, I wonder about the day when its just not worth it to keep her at that level. When that day comes, if selling is not worth the money I'd get, I may just start fixing that which screams, "FIX ME" the loudest! Who knows?

Even with a much lower level of maintenance, the originally well found Searunner may no longer be a safe ocean crosser, but still be fine for local weekend cruiseing, for 15 or 20 more years.

As Roy previously pointed out... In the end, its all just: "Messing about on boats"!

Mark
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Old 04-09-2012, 15:07   #1394
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If I remember correctly there was a discussion on ABC 3 bottom paint. We have used it in the past but it seems you guys were getting a better price than I did. A friend is ready to paint the bottom of his Seawind and I was trying to source the Ameron paint at a good price. Anyone got info on their source?
Thanks, AJ
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Old 04-09-2012, 18:00   #1395
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
If I remember correctly there was a discussion on ABC 3 bottom paint. We have used it in the past but it seems you guys were getting a better price than I did. A friend is ready to paint the bottom of his Seawind and I was trying to source the Ameron paint at a good price. Anyone got info on their source?
Thanks, AJ
I got mine from "Johnson's Supply" in Pensacola Fl. They are commercial suppliers for shipping. It is sold only in 5 gal buckets, and I forgot the price, but even with over $100 in shipping, it was about 60% less than the price of off the shelf counterparts. BE SURE YOU ASK FOR AN UP TO DATE CAN that is not expired. Ours was expired, but I called Ameron, and they said that after mixing, if it homogenizes OK, it IS OK!

We still like it, btw, and it has continued to get harder over time.

With your Sea Wind, you could go halves with someone...

Good luck,
Mark
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