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Old 20-08-2012, 15:44   #1366
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Pat,
Glad to help with that photo...

About all up cruising weight: Good to know that crane or travellift measuring can be done. I had given up asking, frankly... It could have been my having less weight, or perhaps lazy operators that didn't want to be bothered with it?

I did guestimate our cruising weight once, based on inches of immersion. Thing is, the pounds per inch goes up, as the boat goes down, and amas start to help out.

I know we hit the water a bit heavy, due to some required overbuilding, (Long story)... We launched, floating at the hull bottom (as seen from the transom). Of coarse, that was with NO rig, and almost, a bare hull. (It was under in this photo, however, due to being in fresh water).

Ideally, it should've floated here WITH a complete rig, but very few Searunners that I've seen do. Some of the pics of Jack Molan's SR 34 look REALLY light, though.

My guess is that as full time liveaboards for that 12 years, we cruised at around 10,000 pounds, or about 2,000 pounds over max suggested payload! The boat has been through it, and never seemed to mind... She handles great! We do suffer on the speed a bit perhaps, but not much. If she starts to pound, I just put the bow anchor in the wing locker.

I do feel that one has to draw the line somewhere. We drew it at this weight, with the ama's transom elbows 2" out of the water, and main hull WL at the mid bolts of the middle (= WL), gudgeons & Pintles.

Not a pound more will ever go on, as I consider this to be all I "should" ask of the boat. If I suddenly "need" that new whatzit, something of similar weight comes off first! What is it about women and shoes?

When not going long distance, we're probably 1,000 pounds lighter than the 10,000 that I guestimate.

From the dozens that I have seen, this is about where most fully loaded, two people crew, liveaboard/cruising Searunners float. Some do just a bit better. The daysailors of coarse, sail MUCH lighter.

I'd say for all of us... trimmed level, at least keep her elbows well out of the water!

Only to "this" point... My experience about weight and speed, has been that I can carry 12 people out for a short sail, and loose less speed than having a thin layer of slime on the hulls. I like a clean hull!
M.

Btw. I see you're in Pensacola. We were there in '04 for Hurricane Ivan. Wasn't that a lot of fun!
"Designed Displacement" is what we work on at MDI, boat weight plus payload placing boat on the "Designed Waterline". As you know every pound added in building is a pound lost in payload. Then having that immersion displacement is really helpful with the known max safe displacement number. If you have all those you can really figure out what you can and cannot do with your boat that is for sure. I encourage everyone to weigh their boat at survey before the purchase, even new boats; then run the numbers for performance and stability.

I was near downtown Pensacola for Ivan, I did stay through it, lost my dock but did not have my boat then, not that bad for me though Bayou Chico rose up 10.5'.
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Old 20-08-2012, 17:28   #1367
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I wonder if there is any video of "THAT" sailing. It would seem the adventure of Marks sailing "THAT" to Australia and beyond would be another great story... did he have any writings of the trip? Is there somebody that could put it all together? His life was surely interesting. Taking on the challenges that most people couldnt do. I read someplace that Jim Brown was making a museum on multihull history and events. Mark Hassal would surely have a place in that.
The idea of cruising long distances around the planet is always changing. The cost is the inhibiting factor. And possible always was, Mark Hassel didnt let anything stop him. You gotta see merit in that.
The Searunner style suited his person and all of us feel
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Old 20-08-2012, 17:53   #1368
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

All good advice Pat,
but as I said, with my first several hauls, in 3 separate yards, I was repeatedly told that they "couldn't" weigh us, for being too light. One, btw, was the old Pensacola Shipyard crane.

"Design displacement" is indeed a useful number, as a goal. It is shown on the specs & plans. With Searunners, (John and I discussed this issue several times), it assumes a light cruising mode, with partial tankage, and short term cruising gear. This is about equal to a clean breakaway where the flat hull bottom meets the transom, hopefully at the WL. That is the ideal, "level trimmed" WL, for a Searunner, and it is not etched in stone. Almost ALL Searunners cruise at a MUCH higher weight than that ideal "design displacement". In fact, John Marples told me that he won the transpac with Bachanal 20% over it. It is very rare to see a Searunner, "in fully loaded cruising mode", with its transom out of the water or close to it. Now that I think about it, I never have.

Pat gives good advice, nonetheless. IF you can weigh a prospective boat, weighing it may reveal a vastly overbuilt boat. In one case I know of, where the SR was a cored hull, weighing it would have helped reveal that the foam core had actually become water saturated. YIKES!

For sure, overbuilding eats up payload. No argument here. We had to for various very good reasons, (the long story), but then made up for a lot of it with lightweight cored composites on all interior floor panels. So, even though we started out a bit heavy, many choices in outfitting since then, have made up for it. Also, Our 34s generous wing clearance, makes the 34 just a bit more forgiving than other Searunners. We can still drive a 9.6' RIB through the tunnel.


Funny you should mention Bayou Chico.
That's where we were for IVAN! Mariam was working at the hospital, I had just completed a 1 year refit to Delphys, that was back at the dock, and we were renting a friends one room cottage for a while.

The flood water was worse the further in one was. I calculated about 12.5 to 13' where we were, based on our dock's pilings. (Next dock over from our friends that had previously built the Chris White 54). The pictured Chris White cat had been at their dock.

I stayed at the home owners house, 400' away at the top of the hill, to monitor the boat. (They'd evacuated like most everyone else.)

Earlier, I triple anchored a mooring, for a friends Searunner 34, in the far "shallow" end of the Bayou, and put 21 lines and 2 anchors on Delphys. By going out in the rising water 9 times, (the last two doing the side stroke with flashlight over my head), I was able to repeatedly loosen my lines, (going way under to find the cleats), and save the boat. On our hardest hit side of the Bayou, only a few boats didn't end up in the yards, dock and all. Our Friend's anchored out SR34 made it too!

In the worst of it, when I could no longer get to the lines, I gave up. Then the water in the house got to my armpits, and I was getting hypothermic. Crazy as it was, I walked/waded, water up to my chest, two blocks away to a house on stilts, and luckily, they let me seek refuge there.

The yellow building pictured shows the previous night's WL, (dotted line), and that giant root ball I'm standing in front of is the one from the hole I fell into, on one of my last trips out. It was the sidestroke from there.

Out of about a dozen times I've done the H drill with my boats, this one stood alone for me. We were actually lucky, for our neighborhood. Only lost our rental cottage, its furnishings, a car, and my tool trailer with $30,000 in boatbuilding tools. (None insured)

This is what precipitated our last cruise, even without a way to sufficiently finance it! The boat didn't have a scratch! It was "take your gifts and go for it".

Glad you got off fairly easy, with just loosing a dock.
Mark
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Old 28-08-2012, 23:27   #1369
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Any one have any experience with it? Insofar as my bottom paint is virtually non-existent, I am seriously considering this stuff for my upcoming haulout and centerboard replacement. Perhaps I will be an "early adopter", once again.
Roy, I seem to recall that being on the Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. I know that doesn't help all that much but you might glean a bit from the links ... or an email to Clark and Nina.
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Old 29-08-2012, 08:50   #1370
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy... If you are considering one of those copper loaded epoxy products, in lieu of bottom paint, I strongly suggest that you pass.

I have told my CopperPoxy horror story before, so will not repeat it, but during the same 10 year period, I had NUMEROUS friends that had the same bright idea, as a solution for multihulls. They tried the WEST copper powder, EpcoTec, CopperPoxy, NovaCote, CopperClad, etc, etc... There was a slew of them.

None worked for long, as the outside copper powder goes away, and the "mummified in epoxy" copper, is isolated, so doesn't work. ALL of my multihull/builder friends, painted over it within 2 years, and in my case, I couldn't get it to stick!

When I had CopperPoxy, I tried to wet/dry sand the hull from under water, (SCUBA), but it is impossible. You can't press hard enough!

The other bummer, is that unlike bottom paint, that releases some of itself WITH the harder stuck barnacles when being scrapped, these hard bottom products do not, so the little Bastards stick X10!

In the HIGH growth waters of Beaufort SC... I had to scrape HARD to clean our hull, ONCE A WEEK! The one time I waited for two, the hull took all day to clean.

This new version out there is the same flawed concept, but I understand works a bit better.

I saw a 57' hull with it this summer, when I was in the yard. The owner of this $1,000,000 + boat raved about it, but I doubt that he did his bottom maintenance himself. Later, I looked carefully, and the hull was COVERED with still stuck Barnacle bases.

I wouldn't use it, personally, but if you do take a chance, I'd suggest you do it on the CB & trunk only. Then dive on the bottom in summer to maintain it. Except for the first few inches into the trunk, there is naturally low growth in there, and it is the hardest place to paint, as it requires a day's hanging in the slings...

Best of luck,
Mark

PS... One good use for these products, is on dinghies and daysailed beach boats, that don't need an antifouling, as much as a ROCK HARD, abrasive resistant, UV blocking, protective layer over the epoxy.
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Old 29-08-2012, 08:51   #1371
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Maren. The boat currently sidetied to me has been using it for several years. I had a chance to see it close up when they hauled two months ago. They gave me a small packet of it which I may use for the centerboard. I'm not hauling for another month or two, so there's still time to explore options.
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Old 30-08-2012, 09:39   #1372
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

“A man’s choice of boat is an emotional choice. He looks at her, and they speak to each other, not with words but instantaneously, as when eyes meet in a crowd. A faint thunder in the distance warns, “Thou shalt no covet,” but he does covet. And slowly he realizes that it’s all right because she’s only a boat” Jim Brown, The Case for the Cruising Trimaran”
Apparently this dangerous phenomenon can even occur through the internet, from continents away. Be warned!
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Old 30-08-2012, 18:21   #1373
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Icedog that makes me feel sick
thanks but why rub it in...........
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Old 30-08-2012, 21:02   #1374
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Icedog that makes me feel sick
thanks but why rub it in...........
I guess an explanation is in order. After following Jacks progress on Corazon here on Cruisers Forum for the last few years, I decided that she is the boat I wanted to buy. I contacted him from my tent in Afghanistan while he was fishing on the Bering sea and made him an offer sight unseen on the boat in Mexico. Not only that, I have never seen a Searunner in person or been on one, never mind seeing Corazon!
Jack has accepted my offer and we are scheduling the survey. I look forward to joining the Searunner fraternity and have read "The Case for the Cruising Trimaran" and "The Searunner Construction Manual" several times. A big factor in deciding to buy a Searunner was reading these books and this thread. They have helped me to understand the challenges of owning an older plywood sailboat.The Jim Brown philosophy makes perfect sense to me. After four seasons in remote Antarctic stations and 31/2 years between Iraq and here, I am ready for something different. I will have a whole new skillset to learn.
Our plans are to keep the boat where she is and go there in April and spend some time learning to sail her and cruise locally. We may decide to move there as a base and rent a little casita in San Carlos. We would live on Corazon but we have two giant dogs who will never go aboard since it wouldn't be fair to them or to Corazon. We hope to eventually cruise longer term, but I think we will be happy to be in Mexico instead of Afghanistan (My wife has been in Costa Rica though).
Some people will say I am completely crazy to do this and to them I say "Well uh yeah! so what's your point again?"
-Kevin
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Old 30-08-2012, 21:14   #1375
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Compared to your recent posts,i'd say it's the sanest thing you've done.


[QUOTE=I
Some people will say I am completely crazy to do this and to them I say "Well uh yeah! so what's your point again?"
-Kevin[/QUOTE]
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Old 30-08-2012, 21:22   #1376
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

In order to winter at the South Pole, you have to do a 450 question psychological profile followed by an interview with a psychiatrist. I have never figured out whether they approve the sane ones or the crazies
Then they do another interview with a shrink when you are leaving...
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Old 30-08-2012, 22:02   #1377
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Well i know what category they'd put me in,,
"In charge of snow flake design"
and they'd leave me there for sure Lol

great to hear you are getting onto a SeaRunner,,,one day i hope to be united with mine, and then the romance can really get going...hahaha
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Old 31-08-2012, 01:39   #1378
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Nice story icedog. All the best with the adventures. Nothing is easy but when it all happens its very special. Congratulations with getting what looks like a good searunner. They are a great boat even in todays world.
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Old 31-08-2012, 22:47   #1379
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks for the good wishes folks. Now I need to read up on sailing fundamentals and navigation. I am going sailing on my R&R later this month but it's in a monohull. I am looking forward to it. That will be in New Jersey. If the weather complies, I might even sail on a Lock Crowther 44 in Costa Rica too but the weather in October will likely include too much rain. I have chartered that boat twice though one was just a day trip. The other was a four day trip to beautiful Isla del Cano. That boat is for sale but it is out of my price range.
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Old 01-09-2012, 21:49   #1380
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Is true, Corazon will have new caretakers. It looks like a good fit.

We will be re-rigging this fall, for a number of reasons, and I will try to get a good documentation on it.

Reasons for re-rig: the dead eye fitting are blue annondised, original run and some of them did not hold up well. Is cosmetic only, but I want to replace them a with the proven black Teflon annondised fittings.

We will have ropes tat are 4 years in Mexico sun to break test.

My original slices do not have long enough tails buried (remember this is boat #1)...we have since learned 72 times the diameter for a bury.

Last but not least, it is so easy, probably two half days splicing, one day switching out the ropes. This is for 11 ropes, 22 splices....is like, easier than a new bottom job, and a lot funner.

I am in the middle of a long motorcycle tour, my internet is limited. Take care all, oh look at this!

This is something I just got from Chris White. I talked to him many times about Dux. He was convinced, but works in such high dollar boats, he held back I was glad to see this.

Chris White chooses Colligo Dux Standing Rigging for the innovative Mastfoil Rig on the Atlantic 47 Catamaran.
The new Atlantic 47 MastFoil (tm) is a high performance sailing catamaran designed for the easiest possible sail handling and safe long distance cruising. An important part of the safety aspect is durability. Every piece of rigging on a cruising boat needs to withstand corrosive salt water, intense UV radiation, hugely repetitive cyclic stresses and day to day scrapes and bruises. Colligo Dux seems the ideal choice for the shrouds of the A47. Corrosion free, lightweight with stretch similar to 1x19 wire the benefits are substantial- yet the cost is more or less the same as conventional SS rigging.

One of the most attractive aspects of Colligo Dux rigging is the ability to eliminate the multitude of SS parts that form the wire end terminals. It is the swages, turnbuckles and toggles where rigging failures typically occur and being able to eliminate those parts will automatically increase the system reliability a great deal.
The MastFoil (tm) rig (patent pending) is an exciting development in the evolution of cruising sailboats. A complete explanation is available at: www.chriswhitedesigns
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