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Old 18-08-2012, 14:42   #1351
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Be interesting to hear Marples take on some of these "comparisons" Lets see....more payload = more volume in the water for starters. Bigger outside dimensions=smaller inside? There must be a coefficient involved here? Perhaps the more streamlined cabins lose storage space. Like Jim, John is objective and would be able to tell those interested.
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Old 19-08-2012, 01:19   #1352
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I looked into a CC44. Compared to my SR 37 i thought that the forecastle the area of the forward sink and bench... was somewhat smaller. the head room and side area's well it just wasnt the same space. The cockpit was similar but the stern of the vessel was bigger. The way the sterncastle its certainly a bigger in the CC44.. but thats compared to my ST 37. With the deck area the 37 is much bigger or should i say more area to actually run around on. the forward deck area of the CC44 was slippery cause of the angle so it wasnt so user friendly maybe. In the ama's .. bigger in the CC44 and the speed when sailing was quite incredible really compared to the 37.
They really are different machines. Obviously the CC44 is the ultimate boat if you can afford it. But being so long and wide they do have some disadvantages with maneuverability and mariner fee's. Also there mini keel is alot smaller so less protection maybe. All in all More gains with the CC44 so yea if i could have one of them i would.... i gotta buy a new main for my SR 37. Its going to cost $3500 NZ but if i owned a CC44 it would cost maybe $5500.
I have heard that a CC44 are capable of flying two hulls with there design and strenth...
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Old 19-08-2012, 06:57   #1353
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Interesting observations Rossad.

The smaller living space I was referring to in comparing the CC35 to the SR 34, was not floor space or cubic feet of "visible" interior volume. Between these two, the CC had far less wings so less wing storage. The cockpit was MUCH smaller, as was it's storage cubbies, sub floor storage, AND the under sub floor storage.

Same was true in the front cabin, where we have TWO wing cubbies the size of a mid sized car's trunk, not so with the CC... Not in the head either.

Back cabin... the CCs counters were about half the size, and all cubbies as well as shelf areas were fewer and smaller. In the sterncastle, the cabin corner areas were much smaller, and the SR 34's huge "trunk sized" storage areas, behind the seats, were not there. Smaller aft bunk area too.

The smaller, more streamlined, simplified cabins, along with far less, more streamlined wings/akas, created a simpler, lower maintenance structure. Being devoid of the numerous angles, pieces, hatches etc... made a big difference! (our 34 has 12 hatches). When you figure hinges, latches, gaskets... Well, you get my point... Our Searunners utility is AWESOME, but comes at a price in maintenance, IF looked at over decades.

For us, the difference in "liveaboard" was having Photo albums, Christmas decorations, 10 years of tax records, etc... and the tools of my trade. "Liveadoard" cruising, with NO other home base, requires far more space and storage than just "cruising". This was why the SR34 was better for us...

Our friends with the Chris White 54, had FAR less "accommodations", (= storage cubbies, anchor/dive lockers, counter space, bunk space, cockpit space, easy walking deck/wing space, and overall accouterments)... than say, a well equipped SR 40. FAR LESS!

Their boat was also 35' wide! Dockage was not often available, nor haulout opportunities. SHE WAS TOO BIG!

As they approached retirement, they sold their beauty, as she had become too much boat.

Up to a point, (like the CC44 being an upper limit), the longer, narrower cabin, less wing, simplified CC boats, have huge advantages, but like I said earlier, they need to be longer, for the same amount of "livability" as the SR. The wonderful CC44 may be similar in that respect, to the palatial SR40, except for bunk, cockpit, and wing space. Then the SR still has more.

If money, dockage, and haulouts are all sussed out, then I'd rather have a longer CC boat, (to be equally livable to a SR), it would be a faster, more stable, lower maintenance boat... but for us, the SR 34 was "just right".

M.
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Old 19-08-2012, 09:35   #1354
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by rossad View Post
All very interesting Stories Mark
Thanks for sharing them and also putting in writting your knowledge especially with the Searunner. I have a book of Mark Hassel called "Love to Sail" another interesting read.
Found this on the net... who interesting how our lives weave a way.

Building a 63' Jim Brown trimaran "THAT" [Archive] - Multihulls4us Forums
.
It appears that the link from this link to the story of Mark Hassal and the building of a large Jim Brown trimaran is no longer functional. If some one has a copy of the story including photos I would be pleased to post it for viewing on Multihull Dynamics, Inc. Please send the link or whatever you have to me through my website.

Pat
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Old 19-08-2012, 15:59   #1355
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Pat Ross...good name that Ross
Yes i couldnt find that link to the Building of THAT.. so thats why i posted the other. It really is part of the Trimaran Law and needs to be housed in a few sites just like yours. What a lot of information on your site you must have put some time into that.
You would be probably aware that the article of THAT was printed in some boating magazines also. A compelling story that captures the essence of Trimaran culture and how one man can achieve so much (drinking included)
Never say you cant do that at any age anytime.....

And yes it is irresistible to compare the Catamaran and Trimaran.. with so much more work to do on that. Interesting stuff.
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Old 19-08-2012, 16:22   #1356
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

PhantomBoatwork
Congratulations with the new crew for your vessel... Lucky you built the right boat for the right situation. Lots of fun with little ones great times ahead.
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Old 19-08-2012, 17:43   #1357
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey, I really appreciate that. Yeah, for once, I may have gotten the timing and the project right! My eldest daughter- aged 7- is already playing what she calls the boat game. Every time we are in the car, she pretends that we are cruising the boat, looking out for fishing spots, dodging pirates and talking to mermaids. I guess you gotta get 'em while they're young.
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Old 19-08-2012, 18:12   #1358
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Ross View Post
It appears that the link from this link to the story of Mark Hassal and the building of a large Jim Brown trimaran is no longer functional. If some one has a copy of the story including photos I would be pleased to post it for viewing on Multihull Dynamics, Inc. Please send the link or whatever you have to me through my website.
Pat
Pat, the Wayback machine is your friend.

How THAT Came About - Index

Quote:
How “THAT” Came About
By MARK HASSALL and ANN KERLIN-HASSALL
With color photographs
This story was originally published in 1989 and 1990 as a six part series
in "MULTIHULLS" Magazine. We are extremely pleased to
be able to present this fantastic story here on the
Maya Paradise web site. Thanks Mark!!!



The Story of "THAT"
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Old 19-08-2012, 18:15   #1359
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber View Post
Pat, the Wayback machine is your friend.

How THAT Came About - Index
Thank you. I will work on getting this setup and post a link when it is in place. It is real important we keep our history clear so much good stuff.

Rossad, thank you for your kind words. Cal Markwood is the brains behind the scenes he has worked to be forthright, honest and straight forward in his work. We appreciate the limitations of our system, 8 years ago there was nothing like this available.

The final solution is the have multihull members of all forums to get a weight on their multihull sailboat when they have her hauled and send us the data. I have made several appeals to owners to do this but to no avail. Multihull sailboat owners could influence multihull design if they would send us this data. We do our best to offer the most accurate measurements we can gather with calculations and predictions.


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Old 19-08-2012, 19:06   #1360
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

P.S.
Anyone who is interested in Mark's biography (not autobiography) linked to in the above post might also be interested in this post by his step-son, Seth Kerlin.

Mark Hassall, May He Rest In Peace
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Old 20-08-2012, 07:17   #1361
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Pat, the Wayback machine is your friend.

How THAT Came About - Index
Here is the link to the article, currently without photos. I am in search of photos of this boat and where she is now or what was her demise.

Building Jim Brown's 62' Trimaran Design - Mark Hassall and "THAT"

send information and photos to pat@multihulldynamics.com

Thanks
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Old 20-08-2012, 11:04   #1362
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Pat, good ideas and great work, Thanks...

About boat weight: My experience has been that when I have asked the operator, (and we've picked up Delphys something like 16 times, counting in & out), I was told that the boat's weight either read as "0" or was not to be trusted at all. Seems that a 200 ton travel lift, picking up < 5 tons, barely tips the scales!


About Mark Hassle's "That". (And I'm repeating my story here)...

I remember first reading about "That" when the series of articles came out in Multihulls Magazine, years ago.

We saw the boat near Fronteris, Guatemala when cruising up the Rio Dulce in 2,000. Like Mark's previous boat, she had fallen on hard times.

After his circumnavigations, in both the previous SR37 (as told in "Love for sail"), and in "That", his boats had completed their intended job. The boat's longevity was not a large part of the equation. He was not into daysailing, or maintenance, so both boats succumbed to both rot & termites, (which the Rio is infested with).

When we saw the boat, we got the poop from locals who were involved. "That" had been bought CHEAP, by a French dive excursion "cattle boat" company. The rot and damage was halted, but so extensive that they actually laid up a new layer of CC veneer inside of the hull. The strength was restored, at the price of making her WAY heavier. For their purpose, it didn't matter.

As of 2,000, the boat made regular trips, with clients, from Frontaris, out the mouth of the Rio, and to the local Sapidillas islands, (claimed by both Belize and Guatemala), for dive excursions. This is some of the best diving around, btw...

Many years before this, Mark had remarried, and moved OFF of the Rio, to BEAUTIFUL lake Atitlan, (still in Guatemala)... This inland lake is high in altitude, quite cool, and surrounded by volcanoes, some live! He was there at the time, as far as I know, but we unfortunately never met. Mark was truly one of a kind, really knew how to live life, and how to pick a beautiful place to settle!

Cruising Belize, Guatemala, and up the Rio Dulce, was a peak experience for us, and one that I'll never forget!

Mark
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Old 20-08-2012, 11:29   #1363
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jim Brown of Searunner Trimarans


Very enlightening about Mark's other side. People are so complex...
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Old 20-08-2012, 13:21   #1364
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Pat, good ideas and great work, Thanks...

About boat weight: My experience has been that when I have asked the operator, (and we've picked up Delphys something like 16 times, counting in & out), I was told that the boat's weight either read as "0" or was not to be trusted at all. Seems that a 200 ton travel lift, picking up < 5 tons, barely tips the scales! Mark
Thanks for you comments Mark. I have had mine weighed at 3 different locations with 200 tons cranes and it is remarkable how closely they all reported the same weight of the boat, 16K, without the operators knowledge of the previous reported weight or the location the boat was last weighed, so I know it is possible.

One of the issues is calibration. Somehow if the crane operator could pick up a known weight or some other calibration method, prior to lifting a multihull, so as to insure he is getting an accurate weight, within 300lbs, of actual weight of the boat then we could really narrow the results for predictions and their validity in the real world of sailing.

I appreciate the photo of "THAT" it is the best bow on photo I have. I will be posting it with the article. I appreciate the update on what she has done and apparently may still be doing.

Pat
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Old 20-08-2012, 15:03   #1365
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Pat,
Glad to help with that photo...

About all up cruising weight: Good to know that crane or travellift measuring can be done. I had given up asking, frankly... It could have been my having less weight, or perhaps lazy operators that didn't want to be bothered with it?

I did guestimate our cruising weight once, based on inches of immersion. Thing is, the pounds per inch goes up, as the boat goes down, and amas start to help out.

I know we hit the water a bit heavy, due to some required overbuilding, (Long story)... We launched, floating at the hull bottom (as seen from the transom). Of coarse, that was with NO rig, and almost, a bare hull. (It was under in this photo, however, due to being in fresh water).

Ideally, it should've floated here WITH a complete rig, but very few Searunners that I've seen do. Some of the pics of Jack Molan's SR 34 look REALLY light, though.

My guess is that as full time liveaboards for that 12 years, we cruised at around 10,000 pounds, or about 2,000 pounds over max suggested payload! The boat has been through it, and never seemed to mind... She handles great! We do suffer on the speed a bit perhaps, but not much. If she starts to pound, I just put the bow anchor in the wing locker.

I do feel that one has to draw the line somewhere. We drew it at this weight, with the ama's transom elbows 2" out of the water, and main hull WL at the mid bolts of the middle (= WL), gudgeons & Pintles.

Not a pound more will ever go on, as I consider this to be all I "should" ask of the boat. If I suddenly "need" that new whatzit, something of similar weight comes off first! What is it about women and shoes?

When not going long distance, we're probably 1,000 pounds lighter than the 10,000 that I guestimate.

From the dozens that I have seen, this is about where most fully loaded, two people crew, liveaboard/cruising Searunners float. Some do just a bit better. The daysailors of coarse, sail MUCH lighter.

I'd say for all of us... trimmed level, at least keep her elbows well out of the water!

Only to "this" point... My experience about weight and speed, has been that I can carry 12 people out for a short sail, and loose less speed than having a thin layer of slime on the hulls. I like a clean hull!
M.

Btw. I see you're in Pensacola. We were there in '04 for Hurricane Ivan. Wasn't that a lot of fun!
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