Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[Cavalier MK2]

Old and new world skills......Here is an example of appropriate finish- yacht tenders for yuppies get the gloss. Good craftsmanship goes into everything.

[trisailer]

Well Launch Day Is Here.
Plan to launch tomorrow 8/9/2012
Will be shooting lots of pictures and video.
Wish us luck

Bob

[PhantomBoatwork]

Way to go! The 31 is a great boat, and I know you'll have a ball with her. Best of luck with the launch and the party and the hangover afterwards. Keep the shiny side up and you're good to go!

[Roy M]

trisailor and crew,

Congratulations. I think the unofficial statistics show only one in three builders ever complete their boats. You and your family have a lot to be proud and thrilled about. The coming days are going to be very different now in your lives. Well done!

A brief anecdote on my own launch: That night, after the launch, I slept for the first time in my berth. I was utterly whacked from fatigue, anxiety, and disorientation. As I laid in bed, I could hear all the sounds that were different: the clank of the halyards I'd forgotten to secure, the lapping of waves against the hull, the fog horn from the breakwater, and....what's that cracking and popping sound? Oh my god! The boat is falling apart!!! Wait a moment, there's no water flowing in. I'm too tired to worry any more. ZZZZZZZ.

The next morning, when I spoke to fellow builders who had launched, they all began laughing at some secret joke. It was the calling of the cleaner shrimp who make this noise with their claws. What a relief! We had all had the same experience.

[trisailer]

Originally Posted by trisailer

Well Launch Day Is Here.
Plan to launch tomorrow 8/9/2012
Will be shooting lots of pictures and video.
Wish us luck

Bob

I think I missled about our launch.
I am not a builder, just a modifier.
I have modified a 31 to be folding.
This is our first launch, since the modification.
Sorry that I missled

[Cavalier MK2]

Good luck Bob!
Take it slow and don't force anything. make a check list for the steps etc......
I'm just back from Canada but with an early schedule to keep I can't claim to have finished everything before we pulled off the beach.....I'll keep at it as I get time.
I saw Marples old Searunner 37 in Ganges at Salt Spring Island. The boat looks good and is US flagged out of Seattle. I'm thinking John built her with galvanized fastenings as one or two spots have bled through...... Locals say they were planning a Mexico run last year but the boat hasn't left. I'll post pictures when I get my film back.

[Boatguy30]

FILM????
What kind of third world country are you livings in there?

[Cavalier MK2]

I like the artsy effects you can get with film, plus a negative is proof of a undoctored image. Now lets see.....beach boat yards, non electric tools for cruising, no marinas....HEY this is a 4TH WORLD country. I plead the 5th......

[Mark Johnson]

Roy,

How I remember those cleaner shrimp. When I first launched and lived on my Wharram, (mid 70s), I heard those critters "eating" my boat, or so I thought. With my ear only inches from the hull, it was LOUD. I gave the locals a good laugh when I told the story of being "attacked" by something in the middle of the night!


Jeff, "Boatguy30"...

You asked for an update on the ABC #3 ablative, so I will include it here, along with a number of lessons learned from an intensive Summer of "experiments" in the boatyard.

BEWARE of experiments. Some will be EXCREMENT!

We have since had a nice cruise to our local cruising favorite spot, "Cape Lookout", and all went well. After months in the yard, it was GREAT!
M.

[Mark Johnson]

ABC #3

To start off with... Things go best when we stick with what's worked for us in the past, but one doesn't learn that way. Still, I do stick with the familiar when I can, just to make it easy on myself.

In our case we did a LOT of new stuff. It was our first haul out in NC, and first in this HUGE yard. (Even after being picked up numerous times, I always get sphinctorial)...

DOES ANYONE USE THEIR LIFTING CHAINPLATES???

This place was a 45 minute drive away, (one way). Ideally, one wants a small, laid back, DIY yard near by, but the reality is that the guys with the 200T lifts, are often the opposite!

I was originally between 120' megatachts, and one was upwind in 30 or so knots of wind, for weeks. While I was coating my netting, or Awl Gripping under the wing's vent hole, they were spewing all manner of contaminates on Delphys, with a crew of 8 workmen or more. I finally got moved to a less invasive spot, which smeared my "not hard enough" ama bottom paint. Lesson... "No spray painting, sandblasting, etc." on the contract, doesn't mean that THEY can not or will not do it! ASK FIRST!

I tried something else new, in that I allowed them to "cross over" the MASSIVE quad straps, front and back, rather than pay the extra $1,000 to replace the straps. This "crossing over" was to make their contact footprint smaller, and put the straps where they belonged. These straps were partly responsible for the smeared paint, because the weight of the connecting links was enough to make a horrendous pinching in load, long before it started picking up the boat.

I suggest that Searunners, with their extreme width, hard chine amas, and "V" shaped bottoms, do NOT like having crossed, or otherwise REALLY heavy straps! On the way back in, (10 weeks later), I got them to use regular single straps, just tie the big ones back on themselves, out of the way... and I put cross lashed THICK pads on the amas as well. This also resulted in some smears, but not nearly as much, and I have since sanded them out under water. Even having lived much of my life at about the poverty level, using the right straps, IF it cost more, is money well spent. (They cut me a break on doing this big strap tie back, however).

Since the 70s, I have "always" used the same "Pettit Trinidad" hard epoxy bottom paint. It is VERY hard, resistant to strap smears, and sands great. I also ALWAYS used WEST (or similar), foam rollers, for an almost sprayed smooth finish. (At the cost of less mills of coverage / coat).

It was just since the previous haul in Trinidad, where I got tired of the major sanding chore each time, (removing 85% or so), and switched to an ablative. I bought the locally called, "Chinese Green"... AKA "Rainbow" copper based, commercial ablative. The stuff was a bitch to work with, and cobwebbed like mad, while drying in 5 seconds. I hated it!

Then, over the years, (5.5), and > 25 wipedowns... I came to love it. It was very effective against hard growth, and ablated VERY slowly. It was also hard enough to get minimal strap smears. It did however get slime quite easily in our nutrient rich waters, and this is why the 25+ wipedowns were necessary. Slime, left alone, turns to a grassy carpet MESS! (I measured about a knot of speed lost from a thin layer of slime, btw).


THIS IS SHOOTING FOR ANOTHER 5+ YEAR BOTTOM JOB NOW:

My research led me to the Ameron ABC#3 Ablative, as the closest thing available in the US. It probably is... It only comes in blue, red, and black, so I choose the black. (I miss my old "green" though).

It applies easily, but this time I switched to the best 3/16" nap roller covers. This applied a lot more paint than I'm used to per coat, and left a texture that I ultimately sanded out a bit with 220 grit. In the future, I will stick with my old WEST roller covers, as the difference in smoothness is pronounced.

The paint dries to the touch quickly, but I would not apply several coats a day as advertised. It might work with a smaller amount of mills, on monohulls, but creates a strap smearing issue on Searunners. It is dry but "soft" in a day, and overlaps are down right "clay like", for weeks. In the future, I would not only change roller covers, but avoid overlaps on the strap's bearing areas at the chines, OR in the same places over and over. They take forever to get really hard.

Another thing... IF you thin it, (T-10 solvent), use 5 or 10% ONLY. Also... if you get a thick run, wipe or smear it QUICKLY, or it will lift previous coats, even OLD ones! This was new to me. On a clean bottom, I'd say that a chemical bond is a sure thing.

I applied 3 coats "everywhere", except 2 more, (=5) at the true WLs, stems, transoms, chines, keel, foil's leading edges, skeg, and ALL underwater metal (except the prop blades). THIS TOOK 6 GALLONS! I did however have to do half of each ama twice, due to the move to another yard ruining my previous 2 weeks work.

In the future I would hopefully avoid the re do, and if I did the same regimen with WEST rollers, it would probably take just 4 gallons. (A 5 gal can, is the same cost as just 2 of the marine store stuff). It is it's "commercial only" application that has brought the price so low.

SO... A quick & dirty haul is not going to get you 5 years of service, and this stuff takes time to get hard enough to pick up the boat. Bummer! I have since dove on the bottom and done a wipe down, and here are the findings.

It is also "very effective" against hard growth, (not slime), and did continue to get harder and harder, even UNDER WATER! Sanding out flaws with wet/dry sandpaper, (under water), was easy. It may ablate less than 90% of them here in the US, but more than my old paint did. I will use a soft gloved hand now, rather than my old Kevlar dive glove, for wipedowns. I will also avoid a brush, except a soft one, for the gudgeons & pintles and speed transducer. Another point... on future hauls, I will only paint the CB every other haul out, as it ablates less, and I will not hang in the slings for 3 nights to get 3 coats on there. (1 night and 1 coat will have to do). I think this extra time in the slings increased the strap imprint/smear problem, even with my padding.

So far so good! Wish it was even harder, but time will tell, and it works fine.

ALSO: I tried this deodorant stick style stuff called "Prop Glop" on the unpainted prop blades too. Wishful thinking? It burns like crazy if gotten on your hands, and helps a bit for a while, but when you are scraping of the barnacles that manage to attach anyway, you are removing the old waxy Glop. I will not re-apply underwater "every wipe down", as it's too nasty. It might be great to apply for my last dive before winter, and the cold water puts an end to the summer maintenance routine. There was no harm in trying...

DO NOT PULL OUT OF YOUR SLIP WITHOUT A CLEAN PROP! I have seen so many boats loose control in a marina basin from trying this. My prop has gotten quite foul in just 3 weeks from the last scraping!

Well, that's the ABC #3 and Glop reviews. We did about a dozen other jobs while we were at it, and learned a few things worth passing on there too.

Later... M.

[smj]

We have used ABC 3 on our last 3 boats. On our old Seawind 1000 it lasted about 1.5 years. At that time the bows and leading edge of the keels and rudders were getting kind of thin. Don't get me wrong the anti fouling properties of this paint were great but we put 3 coats on with an extra coat on the waterline and leading edges. In that year and a half the boat probably had 5000-6000 miles put on her. We never used a brush or rag to clean the bottom, takes of to much paint. Instead we bought the plastic scrapers from the paint section in Home Depot and scraped the scum of. Much less of a loss of paint. All in all we consider the ABC3 paint the best bargain for the buck.
Possibly thinking of selling our Seawind and getting into a Searunner tri down the road, but that's another storey!

[Mark Johnson]

SMJ... That sounds like good news. If you got 6,000 miles out of a bottom job, that may actually equate to the multi year performance that we're looking for, now that we are in "weekend cruiser mode".

I need to do the bottom maintenance today as a matter of fact. I may try the plastic squeegee on the flat surfaces, and compare. The problem with Searunners, is all of those changing planes and chines! At least I have extra paint there... A gloved hand runs over them evenly, better than a blade, or for that matter... a sander, when in the boatyard. This is why a smooth / fair hull isn't just a cosmetic plus, it's far lower maintenance over the life of the boat. Otherwise, one repeatedly knocks off the hills, when trying to get the valleys.

By all means... Join the tribe!

M.

[pwratch]

Mark mentions a preference for using West System foam rollers for applying bottom paint smoothly. While I too like the finish they allow, they cause a slight choking effect when I purchase them at $3.00 apiece. I experimented recently with a foam roller manufactured by ArroWorthy (ArroWorthy) and they performed beautifully while coating full sheets of marine plywood w/ West System epoxy. As to the choking effect, they're available from Merton's Fiberglass and Marine Supply (Merton's Fiberglass & Marine Supply: 7" Foam Rollers) for about half the West System price at $1.60 ea..

[Mark Johnson]

A NOTE ABOUT MY POSTS IN GENERAL:

I never have a hidden agenda or an ax to grind. I am trying to pass along "useful" information to several different groups of people, and while I might start out talking to group "A", I may have a comment in the middle to group "B".

"A" might be the Searunner ol timers, who are experienced cruisers and master boatbuilders in their own right. We both know these things "in general", but can share tips back and forth, as NO one knows it all...

Then there is group "B"...
I have had a number of out of town visitors who got the "Delphys tour", we talked boats, and about their projects or dreams, and some folks even went for a sail with us.

Sailing Lessons on Searunner 34 Delphys - YouTube

These folks, whom we consider friends, are the Searunner "newbees", that are in the decision making phase regarding outfitting, paint, restoration, building, or even whether or not to get into such a boat.

It is to this group that I am talking when making "choice" suggestions. I do not mean to be talking down to those who know what they're doing already. Likewise, when I go into the very high end projects we've done, (skill wise), I am not trying to talk over the head of the "newbees". These explanations about super efficient systems, refrigeration, windlass, etc. are just tips for group "A", (or those in between), that have the skill, time, money, and desire to do it. These systems would be too difficult to install "with reliability", for all but the most experienced Searunner owner, and WAY to expensive to hire done. If you can't build and maintain it... It shouldn't be on the boat, imo.

I leave it to the reader to figure out if the comment was meant for them, or is useful to them. For those in yet another group... who disagree with most everything I've said in the past, I assure you that you were not who the posts were meant for, you just "overheard it", so it need not elicit a comment. Regardless, I have no interest in debates.

I say this preemptively, because I was going to make a post about our latest maintenance chores and experiments with Awl Grip, and don't want to open another debate regarding choice of topside paint.

When my wife was in the Peace Corps, and worked for the CDC in Africa, she came back with a collection of tapestries that were dyed with Camel dung. They are very nice! They are colorfast, and don't even smell.

If one wants to "experiment" with topside paints, I suggest a paste from Pine sap and Camel dung. Otherwise... your choices are the "best" one part marine enamels, or two part LP paints like Sterling or AwlGrip.

If you have an old woodie but goodie Searunner, with neither WEST system nor LP paint, then you should stick with it, as stripping a Searunner completely to LP paint it, is likely to require re-glassing as well! This is how they were ALL built "back in the day", they were good strong sea boats, and if maintained, just fine, for a while. The thing is, most owner builders went for a two or three year adventure with their boat, and immediately sold it. VERY few owners of the older boats kept them for decades, and for them, really "knocking them out", made sense. Over time, however, the maintenance will literally break one's spirit. Most old Searunners simply went unmaintained, and eventually, unseaworthy.

I have built with the WEST system and LP paints for 33 years now, BUT the previous 10 years, (including a 5 year apprenticeship under a master boatwright), were the old ways. Some the really old ways... like planked hulls on steam bent frame, bunged screw holes, etc.

My first cruising boat, (a Wharram), was polyester resin, one part paint, carcinogenic wood preservative inside, etc. It was a wonderful boat, quite beautiful, and the maintenance quite high.

After it was wrecked, I did a total re-fit / re-build, and then cruised, on the first Searunner 37 ever built. (In going around the world... It's previous paint jobs lasted no more than about a year.)

When one part paints fail, they don't just "chalk" like LP paints, they peel & flake, creating an unstable substrate to paint over. It can be brought back, but it is a HUGE amount of work, especially if done every other year! Boats that are not "out there cruising", do better of coarse.

SO... it is with a background of having built both ways, as well as owned and cruised both ways, that I say a properly built WEST system boat, that is LP painted, is less work and less money to own, over decades, unless one lets it deteriorate at the dock.

There is a place for one part paints, like VERY small "knock it together" boats, dinghies, or the Mexican Pangas and Guatemalan water taxis that get such rough service that they will be re-painted every 6 months anyway.

Searunners on the other hand are NOT a good candidate, because with 3 hulls, 2 cabins, 8 ports, a dozen hatches, a cutter rig with 12 wires, a centerboard, bolt on rudder hardware, removable runners, countless radii, chines, and fillets, stantions and netting galore... they are an incredibly complex structure! They are so damned highly developed, but at a cost.

99.9% of my maintenance over 17 years, has not been to my super reliable "systems" onboard... it has been to the structure itself. I did apply K.I.S.S. to the systems, but they are not a problem. Its the structure! If I had not started out with the WEST system, and LP paint, I would have given up a long time ago, like most Searunner owners did in the old days.

If you look at many of John Marples CC designs, they are very much like Searunners, but simplified from stem to stern. They have less or none of most of these things! There's a reason...

This is why I strongly encourage those in the decision making process, building process, or have they're project stripped already, to go with LP paints, (3 coats)... AFTER A GOOD BUILD UP OF "GREY" PRIMER! The purpose of LPs (or any paint), on epoxy/glassed "one offs", is not cosmetic at all, it's to protect the epoxy from UVs! The unfortunate high shine, is a bummer we have to live with (for the first few shiny years), or add flattening paste to avoid it in the first place.

Having made that point, I have a few "observations from the boatyard" about maintaining the structure...

Mark

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by pwratch

Mark mentions a preference for using West System foam rollers for applying bottom paint smoothly. While I too like the finish they allow, they cause a slight choking effect when I purchase them at $3.00 apiece. I experimented recently with a foam roller manufactured by ArroWorthy (ArroWorthy) and they performed beautifully while coating full sheets of marine plywood w/ West System epoxy. As to the choking effect, they're available from Merton's Fiberglass and Marine Supply (Merton's Fiberglass & Marine Supply: 7" Foam Rollers) for about half the West System price at $1.60 ea..

Thanks for the tip! I will give these a try for sure... WEST brand products are indeed ridiculously expensive now. Even with my small PS discount, I choke too!

Before their (WEST), stuff was in stores, and West Marine didn't exist, I got it from the UPS guy in 5 gallon bottles, for a small fraction of the current price. Fortunately, by being a "business" and having my admittedly funky country boatyard to prove it, I got most everything at 50% off. If you build a boat, become a business and buy wholesale!

M.