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Old 10-07-2012, 14:08   #1261
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy, MAN!

How do you live in just the front cabin with this level of construction going on?

We started out our first year on the boat, ('96), living in a bare hull, with Mariam in the front, and a Coleman lantern & stove in the other front bunk, (along with cooler and a box of groceries.) I slept on the back floor single bunk, in an "empty" cabin. Roughing it for sure, but we were younger then...

Sounds like you've thought about your core choice caveats. The cardboard core would be easier to route and edge, but being open faced, lent itself more to a vacuumed down thin wood veneer, than just glassing. NidaCore, on the other hand, has that felt like face that allows glassing directly, with no wood veneer or vacuum bagging required, (Just a FLAT table)... If you've got the edging sussed out, go for it!

Finger holes... Yep those recessed ABI fold down jobs are nice! I used a 3 finger square one on the engine area floor, which I wanted sealed for sound. (I have "in and out" ducting to the cabin side here, for air). Elsewhere, finger holes are so much easier & cheaper.

We have always kept the bilge filth down a bit, by using throw rugs of bound edge indoor/outdoor carpet, (In all 4 floor areas), thereby covering the open floor edges and finger holes. These thin rugs are warm under foot, soak up bits of rain or spray, (to evaporate over time and keep the bilge dryer), and they deaden sound quite a bit. We can turn the corners in and lift the dirt out WITH the little rugs, periodically. In the front, they stop sand from sticking to your feet, as you get into the bunk. This is nice!

By putting them on non skidded floors, and in the case of the largest aft cabin one, smearing/troweling silicone caulk all over the back, and pressing it out with a LARGE sheet of glass, it has a very sticky, "no- slip" back, and remains where put.

The down side of coarse, is less bilge ventilation, and harder access.

Your reefer/freezer sounds great! We can make ice in a pinch, but seldom do, as turning it down that cold doubles the Amp hrs. We went SUPER small & energy efficient, so anchored out, the entire boat uses between 30 and 40 Ah/day, even when making our water, and we REALLY like that we can get this back 100% with our 280W of panels. The batteries are normally back up and all the way to "float" by 11AM or noon! The extra juice means that even on cloudy days, we get a full charge. This leads to > 10 year battery life, btw...

We got the equivalent of about 7" of foam with "Vacupanels" nestled between 1" layers of urethane and isocynate foam. The system has worked flawlessly since '99, and is still as efficient.

You can't get these custom made, small "Vacupanels" any more though. Glacier Bay, who made a MUCH more expensive product, came out with patently untrue claims about my brand's losses over time. It may have halted sales? Vacupanel didn't need the small timer's business anyway, and are now exclusively lining the world's refrigerated trucks. Like I said, ours still work great! Oh yes... the interior finish on our box is just 4 coats of WEST epoxy, with white pigment. This is better than paint, and will never peel.

You have done your homework on what's out there now I'm sure... The lid is indeed the hardest part. If you found a prefab version, that makes a lot of sense!

With your extra space, you could easily have enough solar panel area to run your gizmos. It still makes the best bang for your buck, however, to minimize consumption, over increase production. As I have said before, one needs 2X enough solar panels to match their normal load, (90% of the time), to cover them in overcast conditions. I know you have figured this all in...

Roy, you know this, but ANYONE who gets the interior of their boat stripped completely... Do yourself a favor. Re-paint inside with either 4-5 coats of flattened LP paint, or my 1st choice, off white "BarRust" 2 part epoxy / paint. If you do this really well, you will never have that paint peeling hassle, from one part paints.

My fall paint project is the other half of the front cabin, then moving to the back, again!

Hang in there...
M.
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Old 11-07-2012, 22:30   #1262
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, I failed to say that I am off the boat for a while, so that I can go crazy with the interior work and still maintain my sanity. Besides, I need the extra space to store all the cabinetwork, materials and personal stuff while the aft cabin berth becomes a temporary work bench and paint locker.

I've placed the reefer liner in the bilge, and tomorrow my refrigeration guru arrives to talk me through the details of the rest of the box. The vacuum insulated panels are now available through RParts (RParts - www.rparts.com). I will be sending them the styrofoam pieces as templates, then completing the assembly when they are finished.

I'm using a Bitzer compressor, direct driven via the 12 volt motor shaft. It uses an hellacious amount of current for the half hour it takes to drive it, but freezes the cold plate hard. According the Bob VanNess, affectionately called Captain Frost, even in the tropics the unit uses half the power, over twentyfour hours, of competing systems.

I can't wait to get the cabinets done and to install the hot-rod Force 10 stove. No one has anything like it, but the setup is perfect for my Searunner. Then I can cook a nice meal and pour a glass of bubbly from the fridge and enjoy the new sterncastle dining area. I've even got the prototypes of the stained glass for the rear window panels. This fantasy keeps me from going wacky while performing the seemingly endless sanding and painting. But it seems to be moving steadily forward.
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Old 12-07-2012, 00:53   #1263
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

When coating with epoxy I've found it more economical to lightly sand after the first coat and between each coat thereafter. 3-4 are all that is necessary. If you coat withouth sanding a little fractal geometry will show how much is wasted in the second coat making the hills taller etc....perfection may be unattainable in life but rough enough to use will actually get you places.....
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:42   #1264
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Now this has to be the fattest Trimaran i've ever seen.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:14   #1265
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thats not a trimaran..... What is it!
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:16   #1266
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Was an overly fat hull a bargermaran?
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:31   #1267
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Lagoon4us ... cheers you put a smile on my face.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:34   #1268
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I was at Mandalina Marina in Sibenik i think it had KIWI flag from memory i ran to get the camera and this was best shot, i'll keep my eye out and find out more....... LOL
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:15   #1269
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
When coating with epoxy I've found it more economical to lightly sand after the first coat and between each coat thereafter. 3-4 are all that is necessary. If you coat withouth sanding a little fractal geometry will show how much is wasted in the second coat making the hills taller etc....perfection may be unattainable in life but rough enough to use will actually get you places.....
When I have referred to the optimal epoxy coating procedure, it has been the system I used on my previous boat. It was about creating the best boat, the least frustrating way, and the most efficiently...

I had > 80 linear feet of 3' wide table frame in my boatyard, and coated 10 sheets of ply at the time! (The 2 tables took one day to build). I would coat all 10 sheets, 3 coats on one side, (day 1), then the same on the other side, (day 2). Then on day 3, sand ALL 10 to TOTALLY level, (ghosting through at spots). This amount of coating is modified down, with better quality ply, (with smoother surface veneers). That's why I suggested avoiding fir ply...

Next I'd repeat with a lighter sanding, as the sheets are already level. This creates a very consistent 3 coats thick all over, which no other technique does. (for non glassed little parts that were too hard to glass, I double this thickness)! Even THEN, after 20 years, the non glassed parts will develop occasional problems, that the glassed ones do not.

I did a similar production assembly line coating technique to the stringer material (with scarph ends already cut), AND with all frame edge lumber.

The end result is that in the end of the first two months, of a multi year project, I had the entire stack of plywood, and ALL materials, PRE coated. Only the edges and new cuts would then need coating later. This makes boatbuilding fun!

The amount of waste in wood was surprisingly small, because I always went to the coated scrap pile for short stringers, cubby lids, hatches, etc. In the end, I could chop up the pile and put the waste in the trunk of a car!

Most folks do it all backwards, IMO... It may be a bit more waste in resin, but the pros are tremendous!

IF you think like a factory... The coating and sanding is done 99%, out in the open, standing up, rather than in the shop, or in the hull, on ones knees or bent over, making and then cleaning a huge mess of dust or resin over runs.

The best possible bonds are also achieved, with future paint or glue joints, due to having achieved 100% glazed over sanded surfaces. This is hard to achieve inside the boat, after it is built, without missing areas, or going thin in others.

BUILD THE BOAT OUT OF TOTALLY SHAPED/SANDED & PRE COATED PARTS, not the other way around...

Done this way, one can make a boat that is perfectly coated & sanded, in half the time, and if the cabin's interior was then coated with Bar Rust pure pigmented epoxy, (VS 1 part paints), it would never need an interior repaint again. With my previous boat I didn't yet know this, and just look back at its interior now!

Extreme quick & dirty has it's place, for some builders & some projects, and I'm not really the guy to tell about all of the ways to achieve it. For the efficient way to achieve the longest lived, most hassle free structure... the above technique has a lot going for it.

Mark
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:00   #1270
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I wish I had done the same. I threw my sheets of ply on some weeds in the vacant lot, rollered epoxy on, added white pigmented layers for the underside, then cut out my panels. It was a waste of materials, but I'm the only Searunner with dog paw prints on the underside of my float deck. Also, two-part epoxy paint doesn't hold up forever if it gets regular exposure to sunlight. It begins to change color and chalks. I know that from using it in my head/shower with the hatch open. But it makes a great base coat for the LPU which followed it several years later.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:45   #1271
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I precoat the parts before instalation unless there is a reason to wait. The uncoated scraps that are to small to use get used as firewood rather than rot resistant land fill. I try to minimize the non renewables such as epoxy. A flat finish is great for a painted area but if left natural having some grain texture show can look good. Quick and dirty building shouldn't be used on boats but then the tragedy of taking 8 years of 70hour weeks to complete a economy boat could be an indication of lack of aptitude as well. Economy isn't just in the materials but also in time. Overly fussy methodology might scare off those new to building and keep some great projects from happening.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:00   #1272
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Whilst the quest for perfection is admirable; I think it's best to get off cruising ASAP and leave the fancy tweaks to the next owner.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:12   #1273
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I should apologize to Mark, continueing to build after such a start shows determination....Our boat is a sailing restoration so the details get finessed over time.....the last year has seen the basics instaled so we can go sailing again but the 'nice" touches will take more time.....We don't plan on selling so the fancy parts are up to us but we keep things simple by remembering K.I.S.S.
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Old 12-07-2012, 14:50   #1274
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy-

It looks like you have already spent the money on your holding plate/compressor combo, but you are really blowing out your weight budget on this very dated technology.

Depending on you overall box size, a single air cooled Danfoss compressor is the way to go(larger box use 2 units). Whilst many "Gurus" still cling to the holding plate/ large compressor idea, even Nigel Calder has made the switch. He seems to get a good deal on the frigoboat stuff with the keel cooler, which I disagree with but the basics remain the same.

I especially recommend the Nova Kool units from BC and they will also custom make a system for you with various plates and sizes in series/ and or parallel. I've built several air cooled systems in the last 10 years and been very happy with results in the tropics.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:48   #1275
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

HI Everyone.
I have a question hopefully somebody might have some good ideas. Its regarding the wiggler that is the system that disengages the steering inside the stern of the Searunner. It is drawn and described in the Searunners Manual. This enables the self steering method to engage and work. The "Wiggler" is this an old system and are there other kind of methods used on Searunners to disengage the steering?. Just thought that somebody might have found a new idea here. Cheers
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