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Old 30-06-2012, 13:09   #1246
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Comparing drafts between similar length Cross and Searunner boats there isn't a huge difference . The Cross 38 draws 3' 8" and the Searunner 37 with mini keel draws 3' 1". Just 7". At about a foot wider over all there shouldn't be too much more heel when drying out.....
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Old 30-06-2012, 13:51   #1247
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Not to be a nag, but the email I got from outrig SPECIFICALLY said NOT to post the link in forums.

Seemed kindest to respect there wishes.
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Old 30-06-2012, 15:06   #1248
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Maren
Wonderful and a big thank you for all your efforts. I also have both Searunner Construction manuals 1 and ll. But to read the modern aspects to this and bring it up to todays thinking is a breath of fresh air. It means to me that Searunners are reborn and so they should be with better ways of build and better interior layouts. Thanks again. And i will say it again wouldnt it be fantastic to have a meeting someplace just for Trimaran owners. Maybe like a symposium. Jim Brown would be keen i am sure.....
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Old 30-06-2012, 16:02   #1249
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

FYI: From Outrig

It's a thrill to be able to offer it ... and for FREE ... as a pdf download. The ability to offer it in digital format really cuts down on publishing/delivery costs.

Jim has wanted to somehow make it available again and this was a way to make it happen without breaking the piggy bank.

With all this in mind, a link to the download page follows. But please, KEEP THIS LINK PRIVATE ... DON'T POST IT ON ANY FORUMS OR WEBSITES, ETC.
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Old 01-07-2012, 00:59   #1250
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jim Brown is a funny guy about certain things - he has the free PDF listed on Facebook - I think he is trying to keep his copyright intact.

I read it, and since I am in the middle of outfitting a 31 it was like manna from heaven.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:47   #1251
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maren View Post
All, the Searunner Construction Manual is now again available -- gratis -- and with an updated forward .

For those who have read the whole of this thread know why I'm so happy.

Maren

Maren, OutRigMedia specifically asked that you keep the link to the manual PRIVATE !!!
Please honor their wishes. Are you SUBSCRIBED to CruiserForum? Does your subscription give you certain priviliges? Do you follow the forum rules here? Well, if so, then please follow rules which you were politely asked to share at OutRigMedia.
Their email went out to SUBSCRIBERS. Anybody can get the manual for free, but if they're not subscribed then all they need to do is register on the hompage at OutrigMedia.com
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:40   #1252
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siskiyous View Post
Jim Brown is a funny guy about certain things - he has the free PDF listed on Facebook - I think he is trying to keep his copyright intact.
I can tell you for a fact it didn't ever come up in any of our conversations.

If you look back at the last post I did you'll find a link that goes to a couple of posts covering the topic. But, in short, I approached him because I thought the high cost of the original book (some copies were being sold for around 100 dollars) stopped folks from building or repairing Searunners.

Originally, we were going to do a new version, a 2.0 if you will with input from folks like Jack Molan, Roy M, etc (this was slightly before Mark Johnson came on) for things like new color photos and updated tactics such as synthetic rigging. But the amount of rewriting would have been pretty high and Jim was in the middle of designing the Seaclipper 20. Instead it became the original version as a historical document with some very light editing.

Hope that clears things up.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:24   #1253
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siskiyous View Post
Jim Brown is a funny guy about certain things - he has the free PDF listed on Facebook - I think he is trying to keep his copyright intact.

I read it, and since I am in the middle of outfitting a 31 it was like manna from heaven.
Since you are in the outfitting phase on your 31... Be aware that the drawing in the construction manual of outfitting a 31, "for example", was perfect for it's time, but you might want to make some different choices now, for simplification, and to save weight. IE...

Go with a SMALL, cabin center, inboard Diesel... OR long shaft OB saildrive on a sled, like Jim NOW has.

You don't have to brace every stantion, it's too heavy for its benefit. The diagonal wires from pulpit/pushpit to the stantions, is overkill too, unless you envision going around the world!

IF you go with a roller furling headsail, you could opt for a large lapper, and use it most of the time, sailing as a more efficient sloop. You could still have free flying light air sails, and the boat "rigged" as a cutter, but sailed as a sloop most of the time. The staysail would then be for heavy air only... Scrimshaw generally sails as a sloop!

With this setup, having frequent changes to the runners becomes less of an issue, so you might opt to omit the complicated "hyfield levers", for a set up like we used, and I described in a recent post. By moving these runners' chainplates one station forward, I can leave them up at sea until on a very broad reach or run. Only then do we disconnect one of them. By having them made up. "at sea", most of the time, we have that redundancy factor.

A sterncastle mounted traveler is nice, as is an overhead hatch.

I'd use SS or Starboard hand holds, for less maintenance than teak.

Those loose headsail sheet turning blocks will flop around a LOT! You might want modern stand up blocks going to a "cheek" type turning block. (The "tennis ball" works too).

Bow and stern lights are best if dead center on the rails.

The windshield is better off as a dodger, (hard or otherwise), with extensive cockpit canvass, etc. It works best to think about this issue BEFORE mounting all of the hardware.

Halyard winches CAN be above the dodger, if needs be to accommodate the enclosure.

IF you envision going out to the amas much, you might consider mesh tramps, instead of that huge open netting shown.

Small little screw down pieces, like toe rail, should ALL be of Starboard. This stuff is "0" maintenance, strong, and fastens well. It just doesn't glue at all, and is HEAVY, so... no BIG stuff out of it.

I could go on and on... Jim's current version of Scrimshaw is as developed as possible for his kind of sailing, and now VERY different from how she started out. Looking at his videos of the boat shows what I mean... Pretty incredible!

On my previous boat, (a SC 28), I took this "drawing for outfitting" too literally, and over weighted the boat with more rails, stantions, and braces, than the hull could carry.

The construction manual is a wonderful book!!! Mine is now tattered, dog eared, and yellowish with years of use. The Jo Hudson cartoons are as good as they come as well... "You weldum aluminum"?

Just be aware that TOTALLY re-writing a book of this size would've been a monumental undertaking, and apparently, Jim will be hitting just the "high points", as far as "updates" in his appendix... over time. We'll see.

I suggest that those in the building OR outfitting phase, do lots of research into current wood/epoxy composite boat building, modern building & outfitting materials, the advantage of two part paints, etc. These are all different now... Also, set a theme. Do you want a "conventional" Searunner, a "modern" version with all of the changes in materials, rig, hardware, and accouterments, or something inbetween, that suits your lifestyle.

Then do your research. This book will remain "the bible" for us all. During my three projects, (which was pre internet... at least for me), I also read hundreds of multihull or boatbuilding books, many thousands of pertinent magazines, and made numerous phone calls to experts all over the world, if necessary. Advice from John Marples was also a great resource for me, and I wouldn't have made the extent of changes, (to the taller rig for example), without it.

Know what you don't know... Time and money spent on getting LOTS of advice and opinions, and only then makeing your "educated" decisions, is the approach with the least heartache.

May "Murphy" leave us all alone...

M.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:30   #1254
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

A few more...

OOps! I did the runner again...
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Old 03-07-2012, 16:40   #1255
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I was just surfing the Web and ran across my old SC 28 on Ebay:

Custom Trimaran- Seaclipper 28 Custom Trimaran- Seaclipper 28 | eBay

From the description, sounds like at least the outside has been refurbished? (Imron) The boat has changed hands many times in the 22 years since I let her go, and last time I saw it for sale, it had a one part paint, (dealbreaker for me), rather than the AwlGrip she started with. Presumably the one part was since stripped to cover the boat with two part, as I know of no other way to do it?

I did see one old photo of the inside that looked TERRIBLE and empty of cushions and such, but this could be repainted, OR, at this price, the boat used as a knock around day sailor.

Last time, I saw it going for $21,000, but on Ebay, I see a "buy it now" of around $8,000! IF it hasn't been damaged in a big way from the years of neglect, it MIGHT be a real steal??? I am embarrassed to say what she cost to build, but she once had a finish like a Ferrarri, and more care than you can imagine went into the build. It took 8 years of 70 hrs/wk. LONG STORY... I quit doing it that way.

For example, The X beams are permanently glued in, and are not just epoxied inside, the mahogany interior is all fiberglassed! The list of construction features goes on.

Even if really beat up down below, at this price... FOR THE RIGHT GUY. (assuming the paint outside is STUCK, there is NO delam, NO rot, and she's not coming apart. I have ABSOLUTELY no idea of her condition, but thought I'd pass this on.

Bid is tomorrow or the next day I think?

BTW... That is MUCH more roach on the mainsl than the hollow leech she started out with, and IF she still balances, should be really fast. Back in the day, I got her up to 19 knots. "steady", a couple of times, with the genny up in 25 knots. "Until I tore it apart"!

Mark
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Old 03-07-2012, 17:16   #1256
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark-

I hate to say; has been on ebay several times in last year and I guess not sold. He started around $15,000 I think. Maybe if he sweetened the ad with some of your heartbreaking details?

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 03-07-2012, 18:18   #1257
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I think the interior shots that look like a rot bucket, scare buyers away. If true, rightly so!

Thing is, the quality of the bond of the exterior paint, and weather the exterior epoxy/glass was ever left without paint for > a year, (causing UV rot), are the real important "ifs". The interior got the treatment... 3 coats of epoxy, sand off 2 to level, then 3 more, sand off one. This leaves a 3 coat epoxied surface that is VERY consistent, and TOTALLY flat. (no hills or valleys) It makes sanding that interior one part paint feasible, without sanding through the epoxy! The stringers have horizontal tops, (for drainage), and they as well as the frames got the same process, before being built into the hull.

Without an actual survey, one is taking a chance for sure, but it sort of sandpapers me that she hasn't had a better life. Sort of like a child that was driven astray...
M.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:26   #1258
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Status report and request for info:

I finished the last of the painting, underdeck to bilges, of the galley/sterncastle, this weekend. Now it's back to completing the fabrication of the reefer/freezer box (which had to go in after the bilges were painted). Prior to installation of the reefer/freezer, I need to finalize the cabin sole details, and herein lies my request. At present, I am decided on plastic honeycomb laminated between vinyl ester polyester resin impregnated fiberglass mat, the visible side using Peel-Ply to provide a good finish base for the nonskid which will be visible. I made the prototype out of 1/2" baltic birch plywood to test the 1 X 2 X 1/16" wall thickness rectangular aluminum tube stringers, drilled with 1" lightening holes at 2" centers. I had briefly considered 1/2" high density foam sheet for the sole material, but the cost and weight was more than the honeycomb. When I am done, I should have saved considerable weight, which I'll measure on my yacht club's digital fish-weighing scale.

My estimate is that the material costs for all of the floorboards will total under $1000 and weigh about 100 pounds (or less). The floorboards are 34 years old, now, and built of plywood for the soles and trusses, and 1 X 2 fir stringers, all epoxied, and MUCH heavier than the newer design.

Does anyone know of a superior and more cost effective combination than this? I'm approaching the moment of truth, and will be making the purchases soon. I also plan to use this composite with lightweight plastic laminate for my countertops and cabinet fronts, possibly even drawer sides. The boat is really riding high at the moment, so I'd prefer to keep the strength to weight ratios as they are emerging. I fear I'm becoming a bulemia afficionado, boat weight-wise. A very general measurement gave me about 6 pounds for stringers and 8 pounds for composite per bay, or about 1 pound per square foot of floor surface.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:22   #1259
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Roy,

LOOKS GREAT!

I also went the composite panel route on the interior flat panels... (engine box, cabin soles, dodger top, cubby lids, 5 wing hatches, etc). I have yet to do the cockpit sole hatches, or the dinette, over. Perhaps if I live long enough?

I used 1/2" Kledgacell foam with THIN okoume veneers on each side, vacuumed over a mold, for the dodger top. Then 4 oz cloth & epoxy. Only heavy glass was at the joints. Bass wood made REALLY light stringer material, and the base for our plastic rub rail.

For the flat panels, (requiring no stringers), I first made a 100% sealed, and FLAT topped, vacuum bagging table. Then using similar metric veneers to yours, and 1/2" core, I vacuumed up 5 @ 4'X8' panels. I made all of my parts from these. For this I used a honeycomb cardboard core, called "Verticell" I think. This had some advantages over "Nida Core", (if that's your material).

The cardboard core has a better strength to weight ratio, and takes glue well, EVEN on cut raw edges. I would cut out my parts, like a cubby lid, and hole saw the finger holes. Then use a router bit to remove the core all around and in the finger hole, for about 5/8" deapth in. (leaving the face veneers intact). Then I'd cram Microlite in the routed out edges, to the edge of the veneer, and really mush it into the core. After sanding and radiusing the edges, then coating well, I had a part that replaced the previous 3/4" lid, at less than half the weight.

I wonder about the edge treatment with plastic core? Does the edge glue as well?

With microlight in the edges all around, I could get a great edge glue, bevel it if necessary, OR even screw in fasteners until the glue set up. (Not so, with foam core)

I liked the stuff! Now, this was about 18 years ago, so I have no idea what's out their to compare now. I would, however, consider the edge glueing problems, and finishing out the parts, when choosing your core.

I don't think fiddely little parts like drawer sides should be cored, btw. They have a LOT of edge glueing, as well as possibly routing and drilling in various places. For the ounces saved, it seems like too much extra work. Could be, that 1/8" ply, stitched & glued, would be just as light and less hassle.

Let us know how it turns out.

M.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:23   #1260
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, I had wondered about edge treatment, myself. Then I grabbed a very small flamed "pencil torch" and began to play the hot flame on the honeycomb edge, between the two skins. The plastic melted quickly, and I pressed a small dowel, a pencil, actually, into the soft plastic. The result was a beautiful cove with irregular hollows to anchor the epoxy/filler. I plan to give the edges a nice bullnose for the floor pieces (to keep the dust from settling into the bilge. I'll square the edges with putty for the cabinet fronts, then paint them with LPU. I'd really like to come up with a simple way to lift the floorboards out. I used finger holes, but they allow small things, and dust, to fall into the bilge. Those small finger pulls by ABI or others are nice, but cost a bit in the aggregate. The advantage of finger holes is they allow good air circulation. No simple answers... such is the way with boats. Maybe, some small plastic hemispheres under the fingerholes, that I can wipe or vacuumclean? Hmmmm...

Yesterday, I stripped out the last of the aft cabin cabinets, chart table and countertop, ripped off the last of the remaining old vinyl wallpaper (it was a quick and dirty solution, in its day, toward getting the boat ready to launch). Now, back to the sanding and filling (and sanding and filling) of this lasty section of the boat. At least I can repaint and revarnish the cabinetwork outside of the boat and drop it back in when I've finished the boring stuff.

The reefer/freezer is the next major project. I've got the outer box constructed of 1/4" Baltic birch (I like using this stuff because it's thin, stiff, uniform cored, and smells like Tinker Toys when I cut it). I sealed it in epoxy resin, then fitted the 1" polyurethane sheets and the 1" styrofoam (templates for the Space Gel) sheets. Now I will begin the inner box and top section. I'm using the preconstructed hatch units from RParts because it's cheaper ( in lost opportunity costs) than building them myself. I've built these before, but the formed plastic units are lighter and thinner than I can make.

I've dreamed about this reefer/freezer for many years. The key to success was waiting for the technology to improve with insulation. That and the compressor, cold plate combination powered directly by DC. When I finally install the photovoltaics (the VERY last project) before taking off, I hope to be able to make ice cubes in Paradise using only the sunbeams, and water from a Spectra Ventura.
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