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Old 17-06-2012, 19:25   #1216
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

1 knot! Maybe the roller job makes the difference in getting from 99 to 100 knots, but makes very little difference in reality. Might be easier to keep clean though.

Did you use that ABC again? Theres a deal on 5 gallons here at the moment and I might pick it up even though I won't be needing it for another year. Seems like it is hard to find and 5 years is hard to beat. Did you have any cracking problems where you put on the 5 coats?
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Old 18-06-2012, 06:40   #1217
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Yea, really! A smooth bottom makes a big difference on tris... I learned this on my previous SC 28. I knew my "clean / smooth bottom", full throttle motoring speed to be 8.5 knots. (with it's 9.9 Yamaha saildrive outboard motor, it was over powered)...

One day I took out 15 people, dropping the boat 2" on its waterline! The boat was only about one knot slower that the above "normal" max motoring speed.

On another occasion, I omitted my normal practice of wiping off the 1/16" coating of slime, all over the bottom, and my loss from the normal max motoring speed was more like TWO knots!

I have done similar observations on Delphys many times. A rough bottom, or one covered with even a VERY thin layer of growth, (1/16"), will rob at least a knot from what it would have done. All you have to do is see how fast she motors on a windless day, at a given RPM. Weight is important, but regarding speed, a smooth bottom is more important, IMO...

West rollers & 15% solvent in the paint, results in a paint job almost like sprayed, but requires more coats for the mills. This time I used regular nap rollers for the mills, (3/16"), but hit it a lick with 220 grit after, and it is NOT like sprayed, but "goodenuf"...

My previous paint job was done in Trinidad, 5.5 years back, and was an ablative that was harder than most, allowing my repeated wipedowns (each time I go out)... Only when I had started wiping through it entirely in places, did I HAVE to re-coat.

This is my first try of ABC #3 ablative, and IF you coat one coat per day, and let it dry WELL before launch, it also gets very hard. It is reputed to be of similar lifespan. Steve Dashew uses it, and he can afford what ever he wants!

I have 3 coats everywhere, but 5 on the high wear areas, like stems, chines, keel, transom, real WL, and underwater metal. Took us 6 gal, but 5 should be plenty really...

Try Johnson Supply in Pensacola FL, and stipulate that it is LESS than its 3 year shelf life. Even with considerable shipping, a 5 gal bucket is WAY less expensive than the non commercial marine store stuff. I have another source for single gallons as well.

I have high hopes, but won't really know the results until next time.

Mark
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Old 18-06-2012, 15:46   #1218
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, I checked the stuff here is 1 y/o now and $250 for 5 gallons. It's red, would rather black.

I was pretty sure for some reason you said the ABC is what you had. That why I was so eager to get it. Probably still will.

Serenity is back in the water as of today a fully functional sailboat with great running new Yanmar 3YM30 on port side of (totally new) trunk (just fit) but us small guys can get in on top of it to do all maintenance and even change the impeller! Much more to be done, but the big work is complete!


Do the running backstay tackle tails need to be able to reach the winch? Vincents went missing when the boat was under the care of others and we need to replace them.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 18-06-2012, 17:43   #1219
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Mark, I checked the stuff here is 1 y/o now and $250 for 5 gallons. It's red, would rather black.

I was pretty sure for some reason you said the ABC is what you had. That why I was so eager to get it. Probably still will.

Serenity is back in the water as of today a fully functional sailboat with great running new Yanmar 3YM30 on port side of (totally new) trunk (just fit) but us small guys can get in on top of it to do all maintenance and even change the impeller! Much more to be done, but the big work is complete!


Do the running backstay tackle tails need to be able to reach the winch? Vincents went missing when the boat was under the care of others and we need to replace them.

Cheers,
Jeff

Yep, that's the stuff, well within its shelf life, and at a good price. Unfortunately, it only comes in black, blue and red. I really wanted green, but they don't make it, so I settled on black.

Congrats on getting Vincen'ts boat up and running! He's really been through it, and needs to go sailing!!!

There are a lot of ways to do the running backstays. In the old days it was with rather complicated to make, homemade "hyfield levers". Too much hassle IMO...

You can use a 6 purchase tackle with cam (no winch), but that is barely tight enough when you need it, and quite expensive too. They need to be as strong as the wire +.

Running the tail to a winch is too expensive too, IMO... in the way as well.

The compromise I settled on was first using wire, then I switched to DUX synthetic rigging (here only). It has a LARGE snap shackle on the end.

These runners snap onto quick adjust, folding handle, turnbuckles. These were pretty cheep, "Johnson" I think... (WAY cheaper than the fancy Wichard one on the staysail stay)!

After snapping it in, to fully tension it, I give it a quick 6 turns, and its ready to go. (Takes 30 seconds or so.)

To undoo it, I take the turns off, un snap, and snap the runners to their "storage position". This takes a few seconds longer...

For storage, I snap the line to a 3 to 1 SMALL = cheep block & tackle, with bunji cord, to allow some mast lean, but keep the line tight.

To keep the now loose turnbuckle out of the way, I hook in all silicone bunjis to the nearest stantion, to keep it at an angle and no longer under foot.

The system only works this way with synthetic rigging! When I had wire runners, I had to use 5/16 line in those cheep little storage blocks, as wire runners weighed enough that bunji in the blocks would allow them to flop around. Eventually, the first set of these small blocks gave out, as the line in the blocks allowed no stretch with mast lean, and were never intended to take much of a load.

I solved the problem by replacing (= duplicating) the little storage blocks (700#WL), and using 1/2" bunji chord in them this time, to tension my now much lighter DUX runners. (NO flopping around)!

It WORKS LIKE A CHARM, is really fast, simple, and relatively cheep. When they're all made up, It is also great for changing the tension on the runners as the need arises. With my runners actually being one station forward of the standard position, I can leave them rigged up most of the time. I just remove them on a long run, or for daysailing on the river. At sea... They stay rigged up!

The "price" for what I've done in moving the chainplates forward, is that to do their job, the runners have to be really tight! SO... At sea, they and the staysail wire are all rigged up, but just snug. If it is steady over 30 knots, and I need the staysail, I go out and put 4 more turns on the turnbuckles to oppose the load. (takes 5 to 10 seconds)! The Staysail wire, BTW, is snap in & quick adjustable too...

Lots of ways to do it, but this works really well... Only the front wire's Wichard turnbuckle was what I'd call "expensive". I rationalized it I guess, but it really is a nice bit of "kit", as my British buddies would say.

Attached photos show the Staysail wire and runners in they're "made up", AND they're stored positions...

M.
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Old 18-06-2012, 21:09   #1220
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark
I see your achor chain comes in through the foredeck of your vessel. Probably going down to the bow section. I am thinking of doing the same kind of system. I do know of another SR taking it back to the centre on top of the cabin and dropping the chain down next to the centreboard case. it worked very well though more work to set it all up. the original plans show the achor to be stored in the wings, but that would take the chain over the decks marking paint.
How is the weight factor on the bow with the anchor and chain with these Searunners. I am interested in your opinion with chain storage and achor placements on the boat. Cheers
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Old 19-06-2012, 06:01   #1221
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Rossad...

I never thought that the SR34 was large enough to warrant, or could carry, a lot of chain in the bow. Thing is... My wife was going to mutiny if I didn't change something! We kept needing to pull up the hook in high winds, (to move)... which required that she motor STRAIGHT into the wind, SLOWLY, while I pulled in our rope rode & 35' of chain. Then for the Eastern Caribbean, we switched to 110' of chain, HAND OVER HAND! Way too often she'd go too fast, not be moving at all, run over it, or fall off enough that we were locked in a circle. Then I would dump the pile of chain REALLY fast, before it pulled tight, (sideways to the boat), and start over! So, I was forced into installing a windlass. My age and injuries had a bit to do with it too!

I had thought about this for years, and considered what John Marples did by putting his manual windlass on the cabin top, over the vanity seat. (with a LONG hawspipe to the bilge area)... This put the weight more aft, had a lot of drop, and allowed for a LOT of chain.

I don't like manual windlasses, as they're way too heavy & slow, and my fore cabin is covered with solar panels, which I didn't want to move. I also needed far less chain.

I decided on 1/2" brait rope & 110' of 1/4" G-4 HT chain. (I will soon change that out for 130' of chain) I also gave in, reluctantly, to the bow location, but KEPT IT LIGHT!!!

We bought the small/light weight "Quick" Windlass & numerous parts in St Martin, and had a U.S. standard gypsy Fed Exed from the States, to replace the metric one...

We bought the "very thin", (<1/8") metric sheet of ply & some tools in Granada, and cut up the ply to get it in the ama. Next spent the entire 5 months from hell in Trinidad, making the system.

I wanted a salt water washdown as well, so installed an extra through hull while in the yard, when doing the bottom. A windlass will not work well without a wash down.

I removed the previous bucket rode locker, that was hanging under that white plastic hatch on the bow. Then put in a shallow draining floor, for the washdown's hose.

The hull could not just be made into the new locker, as I needed access under it for valves, as well as forward for maintenance. I also needed enough drop for the windlass to work, which put it's sump WAY below the waterline. This necessitated a float switch actuated pumpout system, with screen to keep mud from fouling up the works. It drains both automatically & with a button, as desired.

The anchor locker holds my 200" of rope & 110' of chain, and the entire box weighs 35#. (It was made of very thin Okoume ply, glassed on both sides). The box has runners outside that have foam gasket strips, and sit on the bow's stringers. This allows a bit of hull movement, and the box sort of floats in there. After removing the rode, the hose can be disconnected, then the switch's wire, then the Hypolon witches hat... and the whole box put out on the dock, in < 5 minutes. Keeping it light, and all of this required complication, is why I had avoided it for the previous 10 years of cruising on Delphys! I believe in keeping it simple, UNLESS simple doesn't solve the problem...

The connection between the hawspipe & box, (witches hat), was a great idea of my friend (& Roy's), Jeff Allen... Jeff is one of the more brilliant guys that I've known! I made mine out of Hypolon dinghy fabric, and it connects at the top with bunji chord. The bunji wraps the cone at the bottom of the haws pipe, so is self adjusting! When the box moves up or down a fraction with changing load, so does the witches hat connection at the top, keeping it tight. The whole system is totally sealed, and no smells enter the cabin.

In the end, counting the box, windlass, washdown, and wire, I added a bit over 75# to the boat, most of it on the bow. NOT GOOD! So, I moved everything else out of the bow, and put more stuff aft. This trimmed us out fine. Since most of our cruising these days has been within a few days of home, this set up works great, and has TOTALLY changed and in fact extended our cruising years.

When going to sea for a passage now, "like 4 days offshore to the Bahamas", I go into a different mode on the bow... Before going out of the Beaufort inlet, I remove the 35# Delta from its roller, and put it into the side wing locker. The chain is tied every few feet along the wing net, and along the side, before going into the wing locker. If it will be rough, I put most of the chain in a small canvass bucket, and it goes into the locker too! This combination is lighter than ever on the bow, and really reduces pounding in a seaway.

It all works perfectly for us. We anchor mostly in shallow water... The 40 or even 37, may not need to go to the trouble of moving the anchor, UNLESS it has a heavier system with larger or longer chain. Then you still need to do the above, or have a different windlass location.

For serious world cruising, in really deep anchorages, with 300' of chain, this is way too much weight on the bow... I'd still use 1/4" HT chain, as it IS strong enough for your normal, (non hurricane strength) anchoring. I would probably put the windlass, however, on the cabin top, with a long sloped haws pipe going down to the vanity seat or bilge locker (With a sump pump, etc.) This would need extensive SS skid plates on the deck to protect it from sliding chain, and would screw up the vanity area a bit, but it puts the heavy chain more aft and low in the boat.

The wing lockers are OK for occasions, but Used "regularly", it would get old. It is also too small for a larger anchor than the Delta 35, which larger boats than our 34 need.

For our cruising, what we have is perfect, and has taken the fighting out of anchoring. Just in time, I might add! For others... further aft might be better, unless you can keep the bow light, one way or the other.

Hope this helps...

M.
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Old 19-06-2012, 06:24   #1222
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

More Photos...

This one of a un-installed haws pipe is not the one on Delphys, which is a bit bell shaped. This one I made for a friend, but it shows how easy it is to make from fiberglass exhaust pipe, sitting on a plastic funnel, which is used as a mold. After glassing with bias cut scraps... you pop it off, apply fillets, and a SS ring inside to keep the chain from eating up the fiberglass opening.

Note that the electric motor, switches, and all connections, are OUTSIDE of the wet anchor locker's salty insides.
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Old 19-06-2012, 10:27   #1223
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

On looking for ideas for antifouling for a recently purchased Gemini cat i was supprised to see Marks negative comments on copper loaded paints, just to be clear,i have no personal experience in high growth areas but i have a friend who copper sheathed his 28ft Egret sharpie (plywood) which lives in a canal in Florida for 6 months of the year and cruises the gulf coast, it has been very sucessful for more than 5 years and gets very little growth,easy to knock off, i helped him haul it out for summer storage after a 3 week cruise a couple of years ago and was thoroughly impressed, it looked like it had many good years left in it to me, he was tired of the cost and work involved with paints. I will talk with him more about how it is still working out shortly and report.

Steve.
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Old 19-06-2012, 15:22   #1224
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks for your efforts Mark and pic's. Excellent responce. A good windless is for Extending the cruising life. The position does get tricky. Cheers and thanks again.
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Old 19-06-2012, 16:47   #1225
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
On looking for ideas for antifouling for a recently purchased Gemini cat i was supprised to see Marks negative comments on copper loaded paints, just to be clear,i have no personal experience in high growth areas but i have a friend who copper sheathed his 28ft Egret sharpie (plywood) which lives in a canal in Florida for 6 months of the year and cruises the gulf coast, it has been very sucessful for more than 5 years and gets very little growth,easy to knock off, i helped him haul it out for summer storage after a 3 week cruise a couple of years ago and was thoroughly impressed, it looked like it had many good years left in it to me, he was tired of the cost and work involved with paints. I will talk with him more about how it is still working out shortly and report.

Steve.

If you are talking about the old post about my disaster with CopperPoxy, a copper loaded pure epoxy resin...

The stuff took months to apply, and cost thousands! Worst disaster in 20 years for us. Most of the several brands at the time had to be professionally sprayed on... It didn't work at all, and was VERY hard to scrape and hack the critters off of it. On bottom paint, the surface of the paint itself will let go if necessary, when scraping off the really stuck ones.

Like ALL of my multihull boatbuilder friends who tried these products during the 80s and 90s, hoping that they were the answer to a LONG service life for those willing to scrub their boat's bottom often, I painted over it, and In my case, it took 10 years to have total success at that!

All the others had first time success with painting over it, as their formulas had a copper powder, rather than flakes.

The fact that ALL of these companies went belly up, tells a lot... I now see that someone else is selling such a product. I don't know anything about it, or ANYONE among us multihull ol timers, who would try it.

Go for it! You may like it... I was only trying to pass on an opinion that may save others the same heartache I went through. These products are simply based on a false concept, that the copper "under the epoxy" does anything at all, or that the small amount on the surface will be an antifouling for long.

A good barrier coat, with NO antifouling, will also work in moderate growth areas, IF you wipe it off every couple of weeks...

Best of luck with it.

M.
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Old 19-06-2012, 21:12   #1226
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, i totally agree with you that copper under epoxy is not likely to work and believe me,i would feel the same way if i had had your bad luck with it, but based on my friends experience with actual copper sheet, i would have to disagree that it only provides protection against toredo and the like, i just visited with my friend and he filled me in with the details on his application, he applied the copper sheet in 2004, it is a little less than 1/32" and he does not burnish it to expose fresh copper, he just leaves it green, the boat has spent 6 months of every year since in the water in south Florida and gets virtually no growth, it has been for all intents and purposes maintainance free and he expects 15 to 20 years out of it, oh, and it cost him about $800 in materials to do a smallish 28ft boat (in 04). Based on his experience, if i were building new, while my hull(s) were still upside down, i would figure out how to bond that sheet on. However,this is not the case, so antifouling it is, so i am interested in the ABC#3.

Steve.
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Old 21-06-2012, 06:10   #1227
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
Mark, i totally agree with you that copper under epoxy is not likely to work and believe me,i would feel the same way if i had had your bad luck with it, but based on my friends experience with actual copper sheet, i would have to disagree that it only provides protection against toredo and the like, i just visited with my friend and he filled me in with the details on his application, he applied the copper sheet in 2004, it is a little less than 1/32" and he does not burnish it to expose fresh copper, he just leaves it green, the boat has spent 6 months of every year since in the water in south Florida and gets virtually no growth, it has been for all intents and purposes maintainance free and he expects 15 to 20 years out of it, oh, and it cost him about $800 in materials to do a smallish 28ft boat (in 04). Based on his experience, if i were building new, while my hull(s) were still upside down, i would figure out how to bond that sheet on. However,this is not the case, so antifouling it is, so i am interested in the ABC#3.

Steve.
Hi Steve...

I see that you are referring to a different animal entirely. I remember that copper foil stuff... Was it "CopperClad? I have no first hand experience with it, nor knew anyone who did, but here are my reservations, on principal...

I don't doubt that it works for your friend, but sadly, there is no current solution to the marine fouling problem that doesn't have a downside.

The foil might well be vulnerable to being scrapped by a blade in cleaning (in high growth areas), or not work, in many applications. One example or one hundred examples, are too small a sample to say something works or does not, it takes thousands, over at least a decade, all over the world, on all types of boats. If this product had passed this test with flying colors, it would still be around.

For a while folks tried copper plating props as an antifouling, yet the 10 million dollar mega yachts in the yard I'm in, all use PropSpeed, not copper plating. When it was popular, some testimonials said it worked, some said it didn't, and some said it didn't last...

My own experience was that in the electrically hot water of poorly wired marinas, and high fouling waters of Beaufort SC, my copper grounding plate was literally covered with barnacles within a week or 10 days! If I waited 3 weeks without energetic scrapping, they were 100% covered, and 3/4" thick... (I had not yet connected electrically to the dock's system.)

Later I unbonded the copper plate from the drivetrain, (internally), which, as a member... I had previously done to comply with ABYC. This helped.

After that, I removed the separate zinc from the copper plate, allowing it to corrode a bit, and minimizing the small electrical current created when one protects underwater metal with a sacrificial anode. This helped a lot. Now the plate is "somewhat" antifouling, and fine in low growth areas like where we now are, but still not as effective as bottom paint with "Cuperous Oxide", (which is not the same as sheet copper).

I have also observed that underwater metals in general attract Barnacles like crazy, more so with zincs attached. Over zincing can make it worse.

In my case, the terrible growth problem I had was exacerbated by the fact that my brand of copper loaded epoxy was slightly "conductive" electrically. Even though it was internally bonded, the underwater drivetrain metals and even rudder hardware, had created a battery with the current flowing through the skin of the boat. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BARNACLES LOVE, and the attraction far outweighed the toxicity. 20,000,000 barnacles wouldn't lie would they? I had to scrape energetically, with a large blade, WEEKLY!

A solid copper sheet would've been exponentially worse, as the current between dissimilar metals would have REALLY flowed.

My metals were all compatible on the galvanic scale. I tested them with a Silver Silver Chloride electrode in the water. We are talking trivial amounts of
current, but the critters just love em...

Through years of experimentation, I have solved these unusual issues, but 99% went away when I had a bottom covering that did NOT conduct electricity. Copper foil would be a disaster for me.

The amas still have CopperPoxy on them, (under the bottom paint), and I never had the same level of problem with growth, OR with getting paint to stick, when I decided to go with bottom paint instead. The difference, is that the amas have NO underwater metal on them, so a conductive skin is not an issue.

I think that most, (but not all), cruising boats, have a variety of underwater metals (= conductors), from O.B. motors & the anchor chain, to gudgeons/pintles, prop, shaft, strut, through hulls, transducers, radio ground, lightning ground, etc. that would also create a small current "battery", With a conductive skin on the hull, they too might have a "scrub every week" barnacle farm!

Most cruisers go to very high fouling, tropical waters... In areas like the D.R. or Trinidad, this is fairly true of bottom paint too, but more like every 2 or 3 weeks. Even if ones boat doesn't have a situation that "attracts growth" in specific areas, like I did, the difference is both HOW antifouling it is, AND the fact that they attach so much better to solids, like metals, than to bottom paints, that are more like a bar of soap. (This comes from HUNDREDS of boat bottom cleanings, on all 3 of my boats, over 36 years)...

It sounds like your friends experience with true copper sheathing, (which I don't doubt), is working for him because of the combination of his boat's electrical characteristics, how he uses it every year, and where he keeps it.

The sheathing concept has been around for hundreds of years, and if it was going to be sooo useful in the modern "cruising boat" world, then that is all we's see. Who ever finds the solution, becomes a billionaire! There is a lot of incentive for sure.

I am experimenting with ABC #3 to try for another 5.5 year run, but I fear that it is still too soft. I'll know more tomorrow when they pick us up!

I don't have the answers, but adding Tetracycline, cayenne pepper, silicone rubber sheathing, copper loaded pure epoxy resin, baby ointment, black MagicMarker, and copper sheathing itself... ALL fall in the "snake oil" category, (for MOST cruising boats, in high fouling waters), when compared to good ol bottom paint.

Being that bottom paint is so flawed as well, with HUGE amounts of work, a limited life span, and serious toxicity issues, we need another solution. I'm all for it, but looking with a more careful eye now.

M.
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Old 21-06-2012, 06:19   #1228
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
Mark, i totally agree with you that copper under epoxy is not likely to work and believe me,i would feel the same way if i had had your bad luck with it, but based on my friends experience with actual copper sheet, i would have to disagree that it only provides protection against toredo and the like, i just visited with my friend and he filled me in with the details on his application, he applied the copper sheet in 2004, it is a little less than 1/32" and he does not burnish it to expose fresh copper, he just leaves it green, the boat has spent 6 months of every year since in the water in south Florida and gets virtually no growth, it has been for all intents and purposes maintainance free and he expects 15 to 20 years out of it, oh, and it cost him about $800 in materials to do a smallish 28ft boat (in 04). Based on his experience, if i were building new, while my hull(s) were still upside down, i would figure out how to bond that sheet on. However,this is not the case, so antifouling it is, so i am interested in the ABC#3.

Steve.
Hi Steve...

I see that you are referring to a different animal entirely. I remember that copper foil stuff... Was it "CopperClad?

I don't doubt that it works for your friend, but sadly, there is no current solution to the marine fouling problem that doesn't have a downside.

The foil might well be vulnerable to being scrapped by a blade in cleaning (in high growth areas), damaged by brushes with debris or the bottom, or just not work, in many applications. In my case it would've been worse than nothing... One example or one hundred examples, are too small a sample to say something works or does not, it takes thousands, over at least a decade, all over the world, on all types of boats. If this product had passed this test with flying colors, it would still be around.

For a while folks tried copper plating props as an antifouling, yet the 10 million dollar mega yachts in the yard I'm in, all use PropSpeed, not copper plating. When it was popular, some testimonials said it worked, some said it didn't, and some said it didn't last...

My own experience was that in the electrically hot water of poorly wired marinas, and high fouling waters of Beaufort SC, my copper grounding plate was literally covered with barnacles within a week or 10 days! If I waited 3 weeks without energetic scrapping, they were 100% covered, and 3/4" thick... (I had not yet connected electrically to the dock's system.)

Later I unbonded the copper plate from the drivetrain, (internally), which, as a member... I had previously done to comply with ABYC. This helped.

After that, I removed the separate zinc from the copper plate, thereby allowing it to corrode a bit, and minimizing the small electrical current created when one protects underwater metal with a sacrificial anode. This helped a lot. Now the plate is "somewhat" antifouling, and fine in low growth areas like where we now are, but still not as effective as bottom paint with "Cuperous Oxide", (which is not the same as sheet copper).

I have also observed that underwater metals in general attract Barnacles like crazy, more so with zincs attached. Over zincing can make it worse.

In my case, the terrible growth problem I had was exacerbated by the fact that my brand of copper loaded epoxy (with flakes rather than powder), was slightly "conductive" electrically. Even though the boat was internally bonded, the underwater drivetrain metals and even rudder hardware, had created a battery with the current flowing through the skin of the boat. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BARNACLES LOVE, and the attraction far outweighed the toxicity. 20,000,000 barnacles wouldn't lie would they? I had to scrape energetically, with a large blade, WEEKLY!

A solid copper sheet would've been exponentially worse, as the current between dissimilar metals would have REALLY flowed.

My metals were all compatible on the galvanic scale. I tested them with a Silver Silver Chloride electrode in the water. We are talking trivial amounts of
current, but the critters just love em...

Through years of experimentation, I have solved these unusual issues, but 99% went away when I had a bottom covering that did NOT conduct electricity. Copper foil would be a disaster for me. Metal hulls, BTW, have a totally NON conductive barrier coat, under the WL...

The amas still have CopperPoxy on them, (under the bottom paint), and I never had the same level of problem with growth, OR with getting paint to stick, when I decided to go with bottom paint instead. The difference, is that the amas have NO underwater metal on them, so a conductive skin is not an issue.

I think that most, (but not all), cruising boats, have a variety of underwater metals (= conductors), from O.B. motors & the anchor chain, to gudgeons/pintles, prop, shaft, strut, through hulls, transducers, radio ground, lightning ground, etc. that would also create a small current "battery", With a conductive skin on the hull, they too might have a "scrub every week" barnacle farm!

Most cruisers go to very high fouling, tropical waters... In areas like the D.R. or Trinidad, this is fairly true of bottom paint too, but more like every 2 or 3 weeks. Even if one's boat doesn't have a situation that "attracts growth" in specific areas, like I did, the difference is both HOW antifouling it is, AND the fact that they attach so much better to solids, like metals, than to bottom paints, that are more like a bar of soap. (This comes from HUNDREDS of boat bottom cleanings, on all 3 of my boats, over 36 years)...

It sounds like your friend's experience with true copper sheathing, (which I don't doubt), is working for him because of the combination of his boat's electrical characteristics, how he uses it every year, and where he keeps it.

The sheathing concept has been around for hundreds of years, and if it was going to be sooo useful in the modern "cruising boat" world, as to be "the solution", then that is all we would see. Who ever finds the solution, becomes a billionaire! There is a lot of incentive for sure.

I am experimenting with ABC #3 to try for another 5.5 year run, but I fear that it is still too soft. I'll know more tomorrow when they pick us up!

I don't have the answers, but adding Tetracycline, cayenne pepper, silicone rubber sheathing, copper loaded pure epoxy resin, baby ointment, black MagicMarker, and copper sheathing itself... ALL fall in the "snake oil" category, when compared to good ol bottom paint.

Being that bottom paint is so flawed as well, with HUGE amounts of work, a limited life span, and serious toxicity issues, we need another solution. I'm all for it, but looking with a more careful eye now.

M.
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Old 21-06-2012, 06:37   #1229
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Keep us posted on the ABC, I'll hold off on buying any until your report.

We used Petit hydrocoat on Serenity. It's called an ablative, but was pretty hard the last time I used it 4 years ago. The up side is it sands super easy so buildup is not much a problem.

I think it is about a 2 year bottom, but it's very easy to apply and one of the cheapest paints. West Marine and Jamestown both seem to have there own version as "store" brands.
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Old 27-06-2012, 00:26   #1230
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy
Would you be kind enough to let me know about Jeff's Searunner "Dinks Song" .. i am very interested to here what did happen there... I thought that there was only two Searunners that have flipped in the history of them. One was on a reef in high winds in the pacific and the other crossing from Hawaii to the US... i am very interested knowing the story and any other Searunners that have flipped that you know of. Probably if anyone would be up on this information it would be Jim Marples.
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