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Old 19-04-2012, 07:01   #1111
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
When I stripped the fiberglass off the decks, cockpit, and re-glassed, fared, and painted the decks and cockpit, I was curious why it seems like such a monster job

My 34' Searunner, At 34 x 22' is a nice tidy package of a boat right? It has 748 sq. feet of area to cover and maintain.

A 62' x 12' mono hull has a little less are than this. These are big spaces boats. 6 waterlines to tape off, 6 boot stripes to tape and paint, 3 bottoms to paint, A 62' monohull deck to paint, ......stuff they don't tell you at the brokers....:-)

I drive two idential boats in Alaska. Same designer, builder etc. One is 108' long and is identicle to the world famous Northwestern of Sig fame. The other is 123' long. This is the bigger oneAttachment 40116

The designer told me last year as I was telling him the 108' just felt so small in big seas, or coming into a dock. He said, "the 123' has over 35% more volume than the 108'. This is the smaller oneAttachment 40117

I bet John Marples knows the difference. I wonder what the volume difference is between the 40', the 37' the 34' and the 31'. Anyone ever see any figures? As a boat doubles the volume (and everything else) cubes. The same rule applies to wind and waves. A 30 kt. wind in 4 times more force than a 15 kt. wind. And a 10' wave is 4 times a destructive as a 5' wave'......:-)

This is all very true, and Jack makes a valid point that needs to be considered, when one decides "how large a trimaran is large enough". They have a complicated shape, 3 hulls, and a HUGE exterior surface area to maintain.

This was brought home to me the last time I did an "almost" total re-paint, (all except the underwings, which I start today). I don't remember the numbers now, but the volume of paint required was shocking! This represents the area that has to be prepped of coarse, and that's the big deal.

To respond to Jack's question:

Decades ago, I saw a comparison "somewhere", perhaps Multihulls Magazine, where Jim makes the cubic volume comparison, superimposing the profiles on one another. In my faded memory of the article... The 34'er is about TWICE the size of the 31'er, and the 40'er is about TWICE the size of the 34'er. REALLY! At a glance, this is not apparent, but when painting these babies, it becomes painfully clear!

Remember, a production boat with gel coat is still protected from the UVs when it is 25 years old & ugly. For them, at this point, a nice LP paint job is a cosmetic improvement. NOT SO for our wood / epoxy composite, "one offs". The paint job, (preferably with "opaque" grey primer), is what protects the VERY THIN, vulnerable, epoxy / glass surface, from the Sun's rays. Even white paint with white primer lets through about 40 %! I learned this the hard way... To experiment, just paint a 1' X 2' sheet of clear, but sanded Plexiglass with white primer on one half of the sanded side, & grey primer on the other half of the sanded side. Then paint over both halves with white topcoat. It looks the same "white" on the outside, right? Now, flip it over, with the all white side held up to the Sun, and try to look through it. On the grey primer side, NO light passes through, but on the white primer side, you still have to squint! Same is true for our sail covers... USE A DARK "OPAQUE" COLOR!

These boats' thin fiberglass jobs, ESPECIALLY if with epoxy resin, MUST be kept from the Sun, (For the building, AND for their entire life)... So, on these boats, the paint job is not an optional cosmetic issue that can be put off for years, if the old paint peels off. The paint is an essential structural element of the boat, and must be maintained! Otherwise the epoxy underneath yellows, becomes brittle, and after enough exposure, just falls apart.

In looking at these old boats, take these "maintenance issues" into account regarding both size, AND "has it ever gone unpainted" for say... over 6 months, or God forbid, for years? If so, it may look fine, but underneath the cosmetics, be hiding a brittle & weak glass job! Remember, Searunners have chines that are glassed together.

It would be best to know the history of the boat as much as possible, and all of its owners, in this regard. Was it built inside, or under a cover? All 3 of mine were, and it was money well spent! Did all previous owners know these vulnerabilities? This is primarily why I don't like one part paints, unlike LPs, one part paints generally fail by flaking or peeling off, exposing the glass job. It is never all over the boat at the same time, so the owners tend to wait until it has peeled enough to warrant the hassle of a total repaint. By then, the damage to the exposed areas, is done.

Really do your homework, get a cherry, and there are some fantastic deals out there. You just have to look long & hard into the boat & its history.

Best of luck in finding a good one!
M.
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Old 19-04-2012, 09:07   #1112
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Nothing like good latex...its a lot easier to paint a "house' than a yacht ( Yea workboats!) .....and those Searunner 37s have less extreme lines than the 34 for perhaps better high speed running as well as more room. The points about undercoating are worth taking notice of and perhaps thought should be given to the idea of good old polyester resin and glass for the exterior with epoxy keeping the moisture out of the inside. Now for those LAR keel conversions remember if you go shallow you must go long.......
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Old 19-04-2012, 16:24   #1113
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Here's a sample of the conditions I sail in - 2-3 times/year. Can a 34 manage these seas easily? Assume sail shortened appropriately.

Crewed Farallones April 14, 2012 - YouTube
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Old 19-04-2012, 16:51   #1114
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by HapaPops View Post
Here's a sample of the conditions I sail in - 2-3 times/year. Can a 34 manage these seas easily? Assume sail shortened appropriately.

Crewed Farallones April 14, 2012 - YouTube
Oh my goodness you need to read "The Case for the Cruising Trimaran" by Jim Brown of course they can.

You may wish to read Dave Abbott's article Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article as well as all the articles he has published, real life answers for real multihull life on the seas.

Here is a link for formulas to run on specifications to compare boats.

Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article
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Old 19-04-2012, 17:03   #1115
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

These Searunners can sail well. The attached photos are from ocean passages in the past. The two in the Indian Ocean were taken while out reaching a typhoon in 45 kts. The Yankee is being doused after using it to catch the boat taking the photo. The waves were BIG - see top-of-mast photo. The third is when we crossed the Gulf Stream to Bimini close hauled against 20-25 kts in 6 ft seas (occasionally larger, approximately 20-50 feet according to the kids!).
From your video we can see you are racing hard to weather. We generally foot off a bit compared with racing monohulls. In the Gulf Stream crossing we were with a 44 Roberts, 34 Pacific Seacraft and a Nor'sea 27. They all had to motorsail. We are passing the Roberts hull at the time of the photo. I guess we out "sailed" them even though they used their motors.
Hope this helps you,
Karl.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:05   #1116
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Yep, been there done that... slogging to windward in REALLY rough conditions, under staysail and double reefed main. In fact, with these conditions, there is no 34' cruising boat in the world, that I would feel as safe on, as our Searunner.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:17   #1117
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If anyone is interested, there is a 37 SR for sale on Grenada, asking price is only $20k. I knew the boat and previous owner when he lived on St Thomas and it was a lived on and well loved boat. Current owner has sailed in the Caribbean only in the winters and then stored the boat on land- may be some deferred maintenance issues but well worth a look and a plane ticket if. One is serious
Google triumph trimaran and you will see his website
Happy hunting,
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:37   #1118
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

http://www.outrigmedia.com/books/cruising-trimaran.html

I was buying these books as they were out of print, so much for my

"investment"!

Amazon.com: Used and New: The Case for the Cruising Trimaran

Amazon.com: The Case for the Cruising Trimaran (9780972146142): Jim Brown: Books

PatnKarl that is really good stuff you posted. Getting a shot of a boat in

big weather/seas is a very hard thing to do. I know I have tried for years!

Good stuff.....if I was in that youtube shot with my 34', I would be down to a staysail and double reefed main (easy to accomplish), the selfsteering would be in control, and I would be tucked under the dodger wishing I could bear off a bit. If your getting cold and wet, you should be making money...:-)
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:42   #1119
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I found a couple shots of the lady I mentioned who goes up hill singlehanded to San Diego every year to join the downwind party. She lives in La Paz, so she is not going home to San Diego.

Gotta love it!

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Old 19-04-2012, 20:46   #1120
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

JMolan and Mark Johnson;
Yes, every picture tells a story and those two from the Indian Ocean are no less than a remarkable tale.

Mike Hegg, co-builder of Ishmael and sole owner with his wife Claire when the photos were snapped, were on a circumnavigation from Victoria, B.C. They had sailed the South Pacific, across the top of Australia and were in the Indian Ocean trying to get out of the way of a Typhoon in the early 1980s. VHF had about the same range as a good blowhorn after all that salt water and they saw another boat, Jasmine, a 54' monohull. To close up the gap, they threw up the Yankee in addition to the stays'l, double-reefed main. The boat took off. It actually scared Mike who is not normally subject to that valuable emotion.
Switch to Jasmine. Ian can't believe the crazy tri behind him. He just saw it jump off a wave and he saw the bottoms of all three hulls. Out came the camera and he snapped the two pics. That's Mike on the bow handing down the Yankee. Jasmine and Ishmael subsequently shared an anchorage in the Maldives (I think) for a month.
Fast forward 12 years to 1996. We had bought Ishmael in 1987 from Mike and Claire and were cruising with our children, anchored in Georgetown Harbour. Ian dinghys up to our boat and asks how long had we sailed Ishmael. Then from his pocket he pulled the two photos. Find two 12 year old photos on your boat? Remember a crazy Tri named Ishmael? Amazing! He told us his side of the story and gifted the photos to us. We passed them on to Mike and Claire and heard their telling of the meeting.

We were already in love with our Searunner. Stories like this and the stories on this thread only strengthen our belief that these are great boats. Crossing the Gulf Stream pic? That was 1992 and a tale of newbies, failure to wait for weather windows, stinking group-thinking, and lessons learned. Despite all that, I wouldn't have wanted to be in any other boat.

Thanks to you both and all the other contributors to this thread that have shared so much about this great series of ocean sailing wonders called Searunners.
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Old 19-04-2012, 23:52   #1121
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Imagine having this event... all Searunner owners having a meeting someplace. ..... include previous owners and others with or without their boats.... wouldnt that be something.... it would need to be organised in a year or two in advance.... WOW! bring along your pic's and stories and make sure an invitaiion goes out to that guy called ......... Jim.
Imagine the pic of many searunners in the bay .... that would be a life experience worth living.
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Old 20-04-2012, 07:36   #1122
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

We're in Rossad. East Coast (Sunrise Searunner) rally should be in Mobjack Bay and one of you West Coast guys pick the location for that one. I would attend both even if Ishmael couldn't get to the Sunset Searunner Rally.

Jim would love to 'see' that, even through his failing eyesight. He came aboard Ishmael in 1993 and, when I thanked him for his great design, he ever-so-emphatically thanked [I]us[I] for doing that for which he designed the boat - go cruising! He used to hold rallies there in Mobjack bay and you can see a picture of one in The Case for the Cruising Trimaran.

Anyway; Great Idea! How do we get it done? K.
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:30   #1123
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

PatnKarl and Rossad

As fellow 37 SR owners, can you possibly send me a photo of the secondary 1/2 inch marine ply floors that are supposed to be installed between frames 5 and 6 against the centerboard casing to spread the load of the centerboard to the frames?

. I have the 37SR here on St Thomas with the leak at the board casing behind the fuel tank and will be dealing with that issue this summer . My vessel does not have those floors and I hope to install them as part of the fix.

Many thanks
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Old 20-04-2012, 09:11   #1124
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Can do Aquavitae but we won't be to the boat for a couple of weeks. When we get there you will get some photos of the support floorboards that brace the centerboard trunk.
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Old 21-04-2012, 05:45   #1125
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by aquavitae View Post
PatnKarl and Rossad

As fellow 37 SR owners, can you possibly send me a photo of the secondary 1/2 inch marine ply floors that are supposed to be installed between frames 5 and 6 against the centerboard casing to spread the load of the centerboard to the frames?

. I have the 37SR here on St Thomas with the leak at the board casing behind the fuel tank and will be dealing with that issue this summer . My vessel does not have those floors and I hope to install them as part of the fix.

Many thanks
This plans sheet was sent to me compliments of John Marples, (For the 34, which may differ in some ways). You can, however, use this as a guide, as the 34 is the beefiest. Where the cockpit floor "on top", makes a drop down in the middle, thus creating the cockpit sub floor, this is the vertical frame that divides the CB trunk for & aft. On the forward half, there is also the horizontal floor, (With a hatch in it), that divides this forward half, in a vertical orientation as well. This sub floor, underneath the forward half of the cockpit, is at the same level as the front cabin's bunk area sole.

The levels are... #1 Outside cockpit floor, then #2, wet storage underneath for fuels, then #3, "inside accessed" storage under this for HEAVY stuff, and below this floor is #4, the bottom most area, for seldom used things like emergency water in jugs.

There is a 2X4 on edge at the bottom, against the trunk wall, and under the floor in the middle, there is a beefy plank on edge as a doubler. I don't know if I can get photos from such a short range. I think not.

Bear in mind, that no amount of reinforcing will repair wet wood, so this leaking issue must be properly dried & repaired first.

If I were you, I would call John Marples, Who is still in the business as a paid consultant. For a very reasonable fee, he can email you a sheet similar to this one, but for your version of the 37, and after the "cause" is investigated, opened up, & dried out, he can talk you through a short OR long term repair, at your choice.

John is not just a designer who built his own boat, he has a lifetime of "hands on" boatbuilding experience, on projects of all kinds. He knows what he's talking about.
M.
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