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Old 03-04-2012, 19:34   #1051
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctpc View Post
No idea!!! I have the same type seal when it started to leak I tried everywhere.
Then to stop the leak I temporarily use stickaflex and just smeared a layer over all the rubber its worked a treat. so its stopped leaking for 10 months and now looks good so its last on my to do list now hope this helps
If you're talking about rubber "lock strip channel", like in the old days... It looks nice, but fell out of favor in the later years, because some caved in, in a seaway.

Nuts N bolts windows are ugly, but tough as nails, can't be knocked out, and "if done right", should last about 40 years before replacement. THEY DO REQUIRE PROPER PREP AND KNOWING HOW TO DO IT. I gave the procedure about 800 posts ago... look it up.

I've never had one leak a single drop, nor a speck of rot, anywhere, in 40 + years!

M.
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Old 03-04-2012, 22:08   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange
Have you tried Mcmaster-Carr for the gasket?

Steve.
Bingo! Best help a guy could have.
Thanks.
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Old 03-04-2012, 22:14   #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

If you're talking about rubber "lock strip channel", like in the old days... It looks nice, but fell out of favor in the later years, because some caved in, in a seaway.

Nuts N bolts windows are ugly, but tough as nails, can't be knocked out, and "if done right", should last about 40 years before replacement. THEY DO REQUIRE PROPER PREP AND KNOWING HOW TO DO IT. I gave the procedure about 800 posts ago... look it up.

I've never had one leak a single drop, nor a speck of rot, anywhere, in 40 + years!

M.
I have seen the procedure for nuts and bolts windows, and were I building my own searunner I would certainly go that way, but the fact is that I'm a coastal sailor and a former schooner bum, and I just feel better restoring what was there at the start.
Silly? Probably, we shall see.
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Old 03-04-2012, 23:12   #1054
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by md7a View Post
I have seen the procedure for nuts and bolts windows, and were I building my own searunner I would certainly go that way, but the fact is that I'm a coastal sailor and a former schooner bum, and I just feel better restoring what was there at the start.
Silly? Probably, we shall see.
+1 but yes if I was not just local sailing I would do that Mark.
also I must admit to copy paste your how to`s for my one days
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Old 03-04-2012, 23:15   #1055
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I'm for saving the weight from those gaskets or nuts + bolts, but then I've used all 3 and have been able to compare them.
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Old 04-04-2012, 18:07   #1056
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by md7a View Post
I have seen the procedure for nuts and bolts windows, and were I building my own searunner I would certainly go that way, but the fact is that I'm a coastal sailor and a former schooner bum, and I just feel better restoring what was there at the start.
Silly? Probably, we shall see.
For your coastal sailing Will, nothing wrong with lock strip channel. It definitely looks better. I'm sure that the damage to Searunners of old, was due to a breaking wave of considerable size. In the 16 years since launching Delphys, we've only had the cockpit pooped by a giant breaking wave, once, and that could've been avoided by going on the defensive a bit earlier.

M.
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Old 04-04-2012, 18:15   #1057
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
Have you tried Mcmaster-Carr for the gasket?

Steve.
GREAT resource there with Mcmaster-Carr. I got this vinyl trim to put around my bike's gas tank from them. The range of miscellaneous "stuff" that they carry, boggles the mind!

M.
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Old 09-04-2012, 21:04   #1058
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Any thoughts on ama hatches and their hinges, coamings and assorted diverters?
  • What side(s) of the hatch should have diverter coamings on the outside as described in the construction manual? My 25 had diverters fore and aft, my 31 has them inboard only, manual seems to suggest outboard is the key.
  • How should hatch hinges be fastened? to the diverters? through the deck?
  • Why use hinges at all? What about just dogging down with bolts or wedging with battens?
  • Anybody ever made hatches from light stuff like foam core, hexagonal cell sandwich or plain fiberglass? My hatches weigh easily 30 lbs each.
  • Anyone tried a flexible epoxy like G-flex for hatch coamings? My hatch coamings' fillets look delicate.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:05   #1059
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by md7a View Post
Any thoughts on ama hatches and their hinges, coamings and assorted diverters?
  • What side(s) of the hatch should have diverter coamings on the outside as described in the construction manual? My 25 had diverters fore and aft, my 31 has them inboard only, manual seems to suggest outboard is the key.
  • How should hatch hinges be fastened? to the diverters? through the deck?
  • Why use hinges at all? What about just dogging down with bolts or wedging with battens?
  • Anybody ever made hatches from light stuff like foam core, hexagonal cell sandwich or plain fiberglass? My hatches weigh easily 30 lbs each.
  • Anyone tried a flexible epoxy like G-flex for hatch coamings? My hatch coamings' fillets look delicate.

Hi Will,
Some stuff in the Construction manual is now considered to be over built! One example is the stanchions. On the previous boat, (just like in da book), I built them with braces on each one, where you could literally walk on the wires! On Delphys, they can definitely be broken, but weigh half as much... (I mostly brace myself while docking, and hang clothes on them).

Your hatches sound a bit too heavy to me, and I would stick to hinges, for ease of use...

These photos are the Ama hatches on Delphys, and even when being regularly awash, after a week at sea, (going hard to windward in 8-10' seas), I might only have a couple of spoonfuls get in. (never more) I'd call them 99.9%, and that's goodenuf.

These hatches started out, however, being too flexible. My ama hatches on the previous boat, (a SC 28), were even more water proof, but REALLY thick, & too heavy.
On Delphys, I underbuilt them originally, and after 8 years, all of the corner seams opened up from the inevitable flexing, when they're opened and propped up.

To repair them, (8 years ago), I filled and heavily carbon fibered The corner joints, then on the underside, glued on both stringers, AND a piece of the composite flat panels that make up parts of our interior. (Some panels are Verticell cardboard core, and others are Kledgacell foam core, with THIN ply veneers on their faces).

This made the hatches BOTH very light AND rigid, so hopefully, the corners will never open up again. (They need to be both).

You could also start out with a foam core top panel, but IF it flexes easily, you may still need to do the above treatment, or any other technique that makes them rigid, while still being light. btw... my combings could have been taller!

You only need "breakwaters" on the ends! (Make everything on the boat's deck with either beveled or VERY rounded ends, so that lines will not snag on them).

The 3 hinges need to distribute the load, but need not be massive. These 316 SS ones, are through bolted to the ama deck, and screwed into the hatch combings. (The combing's wood threads were epoxied well first).

On the opposite side of the hatch are adjustable turnpegs of Phenolic sheet, and in the middle, I have eye bolts. (They get a pin when at sea, and can be used for locks as well).

To close these turnpegs OR put in the "safety pin", I must stand on the hatch RIGHT next to them, and bounce down hard, while turning the turnpeg! They are that tight!

For gaskets I use refrigeration quality, "peel n stick", closed cell foam gasket material, 1" wide & 5/16" thick, with the strip next to the hinges, being of much higher density. These gaskets last about 8 years, and longer if you wax, or "Mclube" the ama opening's combing tops. This keeps the foam gasket tape from sticking on the side that it shouldn't.

My repaired version of these hatches are thus stiff, light, dry, lockable, and have even stood a Cat 4, without a problem. This is no place to skimp, IMO.

NOW... We just hauled out, and I have to go to work!

Best of luck with it,
M.
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Old 11-04-2012, 16:00   #1060
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark thanks for all your photos with a very well presented SR over this great thread.
I need to put some kind of latch system on my hatches over the Arma's.
I can see you have a latch, what type is that. Maybe a closer pic would be great.
It needs to be downward pressure closing the actual lid. Cheers
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Old 11-04-2012, 23:40   #1061
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The Nicol has really cambered decks so the hatches are hinged opposite of Mark's. Being able to open the hatch flat onto the deck has some wind advantages I also recommend fridge gaskets and have had very good results with a bolt and wing nut pressure seal. The bolts are bonded in from below on each outboard corner at a point where the hole is past the opening. Any drips from the wing nuts don't get below. A regular hasp for a padlock can then do the lock up chores.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:44   #1062
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Mark thanks for all your photos with a very well presented SR over this great thread.
I need to put some kind of latch system on my hatches over the Arma's.
I can see you have a latch, what type is that. Maybe a closer pic would be great.
It needs to be downward pressure closing the actual lid. Cheers
Not sure about "latch"?

For the consistent 100+ pounds of downward hatch pressure, I have 1" X 3" (Phenolic = "Micarta") turnpegs, with rounded edges & ends, and with a small 3/4" X 3/4" pad of sheet rubber glued under the turn peg's 3/4 X 3/4 "bearing surface". These are fastened to the for & aft breakwater dams, with a 2" long SS machine screw as an axle. The axle screw has a ss washer just under the head, a rubber washer under the turnpeg, and is threaded into an epoxy plug that was pored into the breakwater, and threads tapped. This makes it adjustable, as gaskets relax! The rubber pads glued on the turnpeg's bearing surface underside, are 16 years old and running, and I replace the axle's rubber washers as needed. (5 years)...

The turnpegs swivel over the hatch top and bear on small 1/4" thick phenolic strips that are screwed down. With the strip's rough surface, bearing on the turnpeg's rubber pad, and taking full body weight to stand on the hatch & engage them, they are VERY secure, and only take 1 second each to release or engage.

The lock, and "safety" feature in the middle, is simply two Wichard eye bolts through the deck, 1/2" apart, and the hatch's carefully aligned eye bolt fits between them when lowered. When going to sea, I can stand in the middle of the hatches opening edge, and insert a 2" long X #10 truss head machine screw, through these 3 eyes. This can not be removed once I step off of the hatch. They offer downward pressure in a 3rd point, in the middle, and can accept a small, but long hasp, pad lock. My anchor lockers have these too.

The support spring is self explanatory. It is 100% secure, but push in the middle, and it releases.

The hatch system can be opened from "full fastened" in literally 3 or 4 seconds, and the hatch holds itself up. Then I can grab that "whatever", and close / fasten it down in 3 or 4 more seconds... between waves.

I have done this in breaking waves, and consider the speed of access to be an advantage, since we go in there as needed, even at sea.

M.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:46   #1063
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

We also stand on the hatches to get a tight seal. It does take a little longer to unfasten them which reminds me not to put anything in the amas I have to get at when the waves are running. We carry extra wing nuts on hooks inside the ama in case we drop one. Because of the cambered deck the Nicol has a diverter on the inboard side as well.
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Old 13-04-2012, 14:10   #1064
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hello Everyone,

I have developed a leak on my Searunner 37 here on St Thomas and am looking for advice. Seems to be a decent amount of water (1-2 qts/hr) coming in behind my 25 gallon plastic fuel tank, which is installed in the aft port side of the bilge next to the centerboard casing. I am guessing the leak is coming in thru the centerboard casing and is about 6-10 inches below the water line so I cannot reach it from the cockpit floor (my arm is 23 inches long) or from the bottom of the slot. Boat is currently in the water but I will need to haul out at Nanny Cay in the BVI in the next month or two, pull the fuel tank and have a look. Have installed a second large bilge pump as back up and check on it several times weekly but am recovering from radiation treatment for throat cancer in February, lost 30 lbs and a lot of my stamina so am not up to the task right now.

My boat has the Yanmar 27 hp diesel installed below the aft cabin steps on centerline, with the fuel tank to port and batteries to starboard . I also noticed my boat did NOT have the 1/2 inch sub floors that the manual recommends between frames 5 and 6 to stiffen the centerboard casing. The PO did a repair on the port, forward part of the centerboard casing back in 2008 before he launched but he never pulled the centerboard. He also did extensive rebuild work on the bows of the main hull and amas. Boat was built by "Michigan Boatworks" in 1982 but I have never been able to find anything on line about them. I have several questions:

1.Anyone ever heard of "Michigan Boatworks" or a Searunner built by this "yard"?
2. Once I locate the rot and apparent leak behind the fuel tank , how do I gingerly remove the bad material back to good wood, working from inside the boat, without penetrating the glass layer on the outside but inside of the centerboard trunk? If I do penetrate it, how do I reach it to repair? I recall seeing a post by the venerable Mark Johnson working in the trunk to glass his 34 but could not make out the details. I am not in a position to pull the centerboard this go around, if I can possibly help it.
3. Once I do this, what is best procedure and materials to place a patch over the area that will hold and be water proof? Is 1/2" MG plywood, scarfed and glued the answer? Maybe foam? What is best thickening agent to use with WEST system epoxy/resin? I see Gluvit and Cabosil here in the jewelry stores but have no experience with either one. Photos below are not greatest but should give some idea of access and yes, you will see many other issues in the boat that need attending to but this is the TOP of the list.

Advice and help as always greatly appreciated from the fraternity that loves these quirky, unique sailing vessels.

Bob Petersen
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Old 13-04-2012, 16:02   #1065
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If "MCZ" is on the title it a homebuilt michigan boat. There is no Michigan Boatworks in the HIN database. All these boats were either homebuilt or built by someone that wasn't smart enough to figure out you can't make money building Searunners!

The boat I'm working on presently is a Searunner 34 supposedly built by a company called Lonestar trimarans. You'll all have heard of them of course!

The centerboard trunk is the achilles heel of the Searunner design. I have yet to be on a searunner yet, Marks aside, that did not require some trunk repair. As you have a rather large leak; letting it go is not an option. I'm presently replacing the entire trunk and vertical end logs on this Lonestar SR 34. I plan to post a few pics of it in a few days.

I know you just bought your boat, but was it surveyed by someone competent? The SR 34 I'm on was surveyed by a trimaran builder and quoted the owner 16K to get it right. Major conflict of interest as he started the work and now 2 years and 25K later it will hopefully be done in a few months. Point is he missed a ton of problems in his "survey" that were not in the original repair estimate.

What are your plans for the boat? Most of these boats are no longer capable of offshore sailing safely without major work. I'd recommend you seriously consider your priorities and the complete condition of your boat prior to planning repairs.

Cheers,
Jeff
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