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Old 27-10-2011, 06:04   #916
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy-

thought you were going cruising like yesterday.

Failing to head Marks sage advice on ignoring cheaply advertised Searunners, I drove down to N Miami yesterday from St Augustine to look at what's being called a 1987 Searunner 37. Long story short, stay away. MIGHT, be a worthy project as has an excellent rig and very nice engine install with good running Volvo 2003.

Owner has done hundreds of hours of "improvements and reinforcements" including laying 18 oz cloth over the outer skin of both amas, while in the water!. Adding dozens of 2 by 4s between frames with plated joist brackets between bulkheads. While ignoring all the actual rotten bits that needed cutting back.

Anyhow, I know people are always looking for a Searunner 37, but this one is not worth looking at unless you are close by.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 27-10-2011, 07:09   #917
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I just purchased a Searunner 31.
I have previously owned a Searunner 25, Windrider 16 and 17, Piver Nimble and Farrier TT680.
I love trimarans, as you can tell.
All of the above bigger boats, just did not have the inside space I wanted in a cruiser.
I have looked at all the Searunner designs and the 31 seems like a great size for two.
Bob
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Old 27-10-2011, 12:34   #918
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Trisailer - welcome! I also bought a 31 recently after owning a 25. Concur on usable space as critical factor.
Post photos, please. Where do you sail?
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Old 27-10-2011, 13:25   #919
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I'm very new to this forum, so not sure how to send pictures.
So I am trying just one picture until I see how it goes.
Is it OK to post pictures in replies or is there a picture forum?
Post pictures of your boat too.
Right now she is in California, but we plan to truck her back to Wisconsin.
Mainly sail the Missippi river, but thinking this girl might go to Lake Michigan, around Milwaukee.
Where do you sail?
Bob
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Old 27-10-2011, 18:34   #920
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Mark, Thanks for the details and all of the great photos you have submitted over the last couple years. Mine is going to be quite similar. Good design is classic. Because I have a little more available space on the 40, we will probably make it a little "wilder". I'm thinking a nacelle over the companionway and a related boom arch over the aft cabin to hold some enclosure panels (and maybe photovoltaics), all supporting the overall lines of the original design. Trying to keep this project from ruining Jim's clean concepts is a critical requirement. But, as you have demonstrated, being warm and protected in nasty conditions is a necessity, as well as keeping the cockpit cool in the hot spells. This stuff isn't easy, that's why these solutions are so fraught with complexities that can spell disaster to the completed project. Hopefully, this will be a productive synthesis of design, engineering and fabrication, as yours is.

At any rate, I'll be submitting the designs to the forum as they emerge. Lonnie Pogue is a brilliant designer and local marine artist, and he got pretty excited by the idea of the dodger and offered to help. I'm trading him some boat work for his prodigious efforts. He's going to Photoshop some pics and superimpose the drawings so we can more easily visualize the possibilities. Then, it's time to start building the form, along the lines you have so clearly described. Thanks again for your inspiration and fine craftsmanship.


I look forward to your updates Roy. I'm sure it will be a work of art! One thing I had going for me is that I designed the dodger / bimini / connecting canvass, and then full enclosure, within the parameters of the basic rig, but I didn't yet have one, NOTHING... so I could make small changes to the hardware and running bits, like block, cleat, & winch placement. I made them adapt to the enclosure to a degree, rather than adapt the enclosure to a fully tricked out Searunner. It will be a challenge the other way, but well worth it.

In two of these photos you see the small canvass connecting piece that we use to connect the bimini to the dodger at the end of an island hop. This was what we used more than the full clear Strataglass enclosure, when actually in day hopping cruising mode. It was so small and easy to zip in, that we did it at the end of every day when day sail cruising. It protected us from wind, rain, and the dew. Only took 2 minutes to rig up!

There was one thing I didn't see coming. When using this piece OR the 3/4 full enclosure, with the back enclosure curtains missing, (like when underway in a gale, or anchored out in the cold... The set up protects the vulnerable "forward facing" aft hatch, but has a venturi effect. (AKA "station wagon effect)... With the companionway flap open, as it can now be left, It makes it where the really cool aft opening sterncastle port, has air rushing IN when there is a breeze, (even anchored out FACING the wind), so the "leave it open even in the rain option" becomes problematic. Some rain can be sucked in.

The other photos are how we cured this. It is a small Sunbrella aft cabin brow, The front goes into a bolt rope track under the sterncastle brow, and the aft edge has a round sail batten sewn in. It is tensioned aft with bunji chords, and fastened on the sides with snaps. It can be rigged in ONE minute, and now we leave it up all during the hot months with the port open. Problem solved...

Again, good luck with it,

Mark
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Old 28-10-2011, 13:15   #921
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey Tri friends, I just came across this in paper form, and found it on the web. Our very own John (the man!) Marples has won a design competition. I hope every one can take a look at it. I have not looked on John's web page to see if it is there. This is so cool. Hundreds of entries, the they pick 3 very different boats as the winners. Hope the link works.

I am currently southbound for Mexico (finally) From the Arctic circle to Mexico is a long journey. All good!

Design Challenge III Winners
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Old 31-10-2011, 18:59   #922
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Trisailer,
Congratulations!
I have been watching that boat for awhile, thought it looked awesome for the price.
We also purchased a 31' a few months back, and hauled the boat about 700 miles from Detroit to Louisville. I have posted pictures of the trip, which might help you. (I studied pictures of Pineapple Express being hauled for weeks before we made our trip--pictures which are also on this forum--Thanks md7a!!)
My stomach was in my throat the whole trip home, but worries were unfounded, everything went fine.
Good luck getting her home!
Anna
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Old 01-11-2011, 13:11   #923
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

On my 1982 Searunner 37 on St THomas, I am considering drilling out and reanchoring all deck hardware by filling the holes with WEST system epoxy and then redrilling for final placement. Every hole was made thru the wood decking. I have over 100 holes to drill and refill and redrill.

Any tips for making this task quicker and more efficient?
How much do I overdrill for the epoxy plug? Will a 3/8 inch hole be big enough for 1/4 inch hardware?

Input gratefully accepted as always
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Old 01-11-2011, 15:02   #924
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

3/8" doesn't give you much fudge factor if you miss-drill a bit.

Use tape underneath - and use a syringe to fill the holes.

I'd actually buy a tube or two of West Six10 - it's a perfect consistency for this work.

Greg
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Old 01-11-2011, 15:46   #925
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Having spent a lot of hours repairing and maintaning a 33/37' Crowther Tempest over the last 15 years I can understand a bit of your problem. First I am tryig to understand why you think it necessary to do this to all the holes. Or the leaking? Is there any sign of rot? What's the problem you are trying to solve?
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Old 02-11-2011, 14:52   #926
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Regarding hard dodgers, I would like to share some info on my 37 ft Searunner. The former owner added the hard dodger/canvas bra/cockpit hardtop and it is one of the reasons I bought the boat.

My hard dodger is high,boxy and adds windage but is so practical. It has stand up headroom under it, room for an instrument enclosure, speakers and GPS antenna and allows one to stand on it and reach the mast to climb . It is also a wonderful place to sit on the roof and feel the boat under sail. The center window fits on a sliding frame (now damaged) and lifts out on the vertical axis so one can feel the breeze under way or at anchor and can be reinstalled for the rain. It takes some getting used to seeing out of it but one does not hit their head on exiting the forward hatch into the cockpit like on another Searunner I saw.

The canvas bra connects the 2 structures and can be zipped open or closed under way or at anchor for additional shade - which one can not have enough of in the tropics and at an advanced age.

The massively built hardtop has 6 foot standing headroom in the cockpit, a rack for fishing poles and rod holders, a boom arch and steps to access the top of it.

I am not too good at loading photos but here are a few.
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Old 03-11-2011, 20:44   #927
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquavitae View Post
On my 1982 Searunner 37 on St THomas, I am considering drilling out and reanchoring all deck hardware by filling the holes with WEST system epoxy and then redrilling for final placement. Every hole was made thru the wood decking. I have over 100 holes to drill and refill and redrill.

Any tips for making this task quicker and more efficient?
How much do I overdrill for the epoxy plug? Will a 3/8 inch hole be big enough for 1/4 inch hardware?

Input gratefully accepted as always
I did the same to my 34' Searunner. I had some really good input from this site. This guy is a professional photographer as well as a knowledgeable boat maintainer. I really like the articles. There is a least one on re-bedding, and I believe more.

Compass Marine "How To" Articles Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com

Just substitute plywood for core in this one,

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:39   #928
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquavitae View Post
On my 1982 Searunner 37 on St THomas, I am considering drilling out and reanchoring all deck hardware by filling the holes with WEST system epoxy and then redrilling for final placement. Every hole was made thru the wood decking. I have over 100 holes to drill and refill and redrill.

Any tips for making this task quicker and more efficient?
How much do I overdrill for the epoxy plug? Will a 3/8 inch hole be big enough for 1/4 inch hardware?

Input gratefully accepted as always
IF you want it to "never rot", there is no quick way to accomplish this. 100% sealing every one of the countless holes we must drill in our plywood boats, is a must, if we want it to stand the test of time. It also makes the bolt's bearing surfaces MUCH less prone to crushing, hardware movement, and early caulk failure.

The "drill way over, fill & re-drill method", is fine under some circumstances. (Like a 7/16 filled hole, re-drilled for a 1/4" fastener) It is easier to do on horizontal surfaces, and it is better if done before the fiberglassing process, because it then gets it's plug glassed over. (Un fiberglassed epoxy coatings, are far more likely to fail someday). Otherwise, the plug, of Silica & High D, mixed 50/50, will at least need to be slightly concave, and then have several topcoats of epoxy put over it, 1/4" onto the surrounding hull. This is so the vulnerable transition line between the plug and the surrounding hull / cabin, is AT LEAST sealed over with resin. NO filler should be left without several topcoats over it!

As I said, it would be better if it was also "glassed" over, but this is seldom practical. These "plugs" work better when they are completely under the base of the hardware that mounts over them. Otherwise, there is also the concern that the plug will shrink & "print through" 20 years later.

What I do instead is this... For a 1/4" finished hole, I drill with a 1/4" bit, trial fit the hardware, and note which way to "walk" the hole next time, for perfect fastener alignment. It is hard to get it perfect the first time.

Then mark only the slightly oblong holes, for which side of the hole to favor on the next drilling.

Now drill with a larger 5/16" bit, and then get the hole really smooth inside, with a small piece of 220 grit "peel n stick" sandpaper, wrapped around a small chain saw file.

Next you VERY gently radius the inner and outer ends of this cylinder that you just drilled, with a fine counter sink or emery cone & Dremel tool.

Now, with a pipe cleaner or similar, (I use smooth cotton test tube cleaners, 1/8" across), coat several times for 15 minutes. It will totally soak up the first session. You can't go on too heavy or it will run!

Next get about 4 or 5 more coats on the same day. An hour or so apart should be enough to prevent it from running. This works great when the temperature is falling, as the wood will suck in the resin. If it is warming up from the rising sun, then the wood "out gasses", and you will get bubbles inside the hole, over & over! This creates pin holes later! You can use a red bulbed "brooder lamp" to warm the surface FIRST, (Like I have done in freezing weather), then coat the hole and turn OFF the lamp until it sets up. Once the hole is sealed, it cannot outgass, and this step is not necessary.

The next day, you have a sealed hole in the boat that is about 1/4" on the outside, or a bit less, and it will unfortunately have a smaller rim on the inside. On vertical surfaces it will be a "D" shaped hole. Now use that sandpaper covered chainsaw file, and carefully sand the hole perfect again, being careful to hold it perpendicular! Now the hole is round, a perfect fit, and 100% sealed.

For heavily loaded things like rudder hardware, cleats, or chainplates, I repeat the entire 4 coat process, at least one more day, and start with a larger hole, in order to allow this much epoxy in there.

The above seems agonizingly slow when done individually, but I can do 20 or more holes in the same two day process just as well. If you can muster the patience, this is what really stands the test of time.

Hope this helps,

Mark

PS Photo: Yep, we're talking about every one of thousands of holes. It is a matter of "pay now or pay later".
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:02   #929
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

BTW...

For any of you thinking of heading for the Bahamas or Caribbean this winter... this is full of good info about the high & low points of the Caribbean. Available @

Multihull Media | OutRig Media

I also have a Multihull outfitting book planned, perhaps over the winter / fall, and then perhaps a companion CD for it too. We'll see how well this one sells first.

Fair winds,

Mark
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:11   #930
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks Aquivitae. While on the subjects of Hardtops, Pat and I built this in a friends garage while cruising in '96. We had spent 3 yrs in the Bahamas and needed shelter from the sun if we were to continue cruising.
I drew up the design as best I could and we constructed it very lightly from Foam and Glass. We only made the front strong enought to walk for mast access. The same principles as yours applied.
This completely changed our life aboard and made the cockpit a whole new 'room' in the boat. ICW travel in inclement weather is a breeze. Coastal sailing a joy with the ability to enclose the entire area or leave it open as desired. Two of the three front windows open gull-wing fashion (from the center, hinged outboard) to bring lots of air into the cockpit at anchor.
Here are some photos. Karl
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