Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

[Jimske]

Originally Posted by Arthurwg

One Searunner question comes to mind. If the "master's cabin" is aft, will the master and his mate have to leave the cabin, cross the cockpit and enter the forward cabin to use the head? That seems like a major inconvenience. Are any of these boats fitted with another head aft?

Yeah, could be a problem particularly for the old folks who may have to get up 3 or 4 times a night. ;-)

Currently I have to get out of bed on the second floor of my house and walk downstairs to "my" bathroom on the first floor so walking forward from aft isn't so bad compared to that.

Anyhow my Searunner 31 has lee cloths for privacy in the forward berths and also has curtains in both the dressing room and head area so if you are quiet it isn't so bad.

Jim

[Roy M]

Having lived aboard my 40 for over thirty years, I have made the decision to add a second Lavac (best toilet, ever, period) in the small seat beside my queen size berth in the aft cabin. It is a very simple, compact and useful addition, and provides a backup for this vital cruising equipment. I'll send pics, but at the moment I'm involved in plumbing and reefer projects.

[CharleyAnna]

We're really worried about Mark Johnson in New Bern, NC. We've heard they were one of the hardest hit communities, and this mornings news talks of many boats being pulled from their docks due to flooding. Hope they are OK.........

[Arthurwg]

Thanks to the wonders of the internet I've come across Larry Pardey's criticism of epoxy used in boatbuilding. I'm wondering if anyone has come across or knows of any epoxy failures among Searunners. Seems like if this were a problem it would have turned up on these boats, especially the older ones like the one I'm hoping to buy.

[snort]

OK, I had to find that criticism...and here it is:
Sailing with Lin & Larry Pardey

They don't like West Systems Epoxy, but do like resorcinol glue.

[PhantomBoatwork]

I have enormous respect for the Pardeys both for what they have written and what they have done for the sailing community. I do not, however, believe that his conclusion is applicable for multihull construction. It is well known that the forces involved in swelling wood, as in traditional plank on frame construction, far exceed the bond strength of any marine epoxy. Any solid wood construct, such as doors or cabinets, have to be made to contend with wood movement and seasonal swelling. Failure to do so leads to open joints and uncontrolled warping. Plywood, or cold molded panels use very thin sections and are kept from swelling and warping by being encapsulated in either epoxy or polyester. In the Gougeon Brothers book on epoxy for wooden boat building quote Jim Brown as saying that traditional planked construction is like a basket that has to leak to keep the timbers swell tightly enough to seal the joints. Epoxy and plywood construction are more like a bowl- sealed and much more stable. If the underlying wood is allowed to get wet, it can and does swell and will usually destoy the fiberglass over it. Poorly sealed fiberglass tape joints will "zipper" as the wood under it gets wet, swells, pops the glass, and exposes more wood. Epoxy construction uses wood as a "structural" component which is then reconstructed in whatever shape is required. The thousands of epoxy/wood boats that are currently sailing the world would seem to suggest that epoxy does indeed have a place. My personal belief is that is would not be possible to build the current generation of multihulls without the epoxies we have, and the old standard architects of boat building would have used epoxy in their boats, if it had been avaible to the,

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by CharleyAnna

We're really worried about Mark Johnson in New Bern, NC. We've heard they were one of the hardest hit communities, and this mornings news talks of many boats being pulled from their docks due to flooding. Hope they are OK.........

No worries Anna,
We're fine. Here's the long version...

After dealing with well over a dozen hurricanes, mostly on the boat, this one was baffling for it's ferocity. I never expected so much damage from a cat 2 storm! I now know that the number that the weather service gives a storm is not the only thing to consider. In Irene's case, she coincided with a VERY high series of astronomical tides, and we were on the worst, "down wind side" of the river! (The house was, that is...) It was mostly a direct hit, but luckily, we were on the better "left", side of the eye...
The incredible damage was not only from being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but from the Biblical levels of rain, and a duration of 24 hours before the wind & rain let up. Half of that time was @ around 100 MPH!
The marina is both protected and very safe... as far as they can be, but this was the most damage and worst surge they have ever had. It was around 10 or 11' of flood! Many of the 278 boats broke free, tearing up the docks, and only heroic measures by the staff and boaters still here, prevented mass destruction. There was a lot of folks swimming around in the height of it to re tie boats! The water got up to 4' inside the marina office building, ruining a lot of it's contents. A friend 2 blocks back, got 5' inside their garage.
I had previously spent 2 days preparing Delphys for the storm as if it was a Cat 3, and unlike the other storms, I opted to leave the boat for a change. We now have our assets divided between the boat and our rental house full of furnishings, and Mariam wanted me to stay with her there. We had done a lot of energetic preparation there too...
In the height of the storm, I went out on the neighbor's massive dock that towers 13' above normal water, in this 2 mile wide section of the Neuse River. The violent waves were slapping the bottom of the dock, and the gusts were way higher than the mean! The landlord and our friend, "Pete's", yard, (and ours), is 5 acres of waterfront, and very heavily wooded. There is so much destruction there! Lots of huge trees are down, some yard was lost, and his dock, as well as most of the smaller docks on the river, was destroyed. Luckily, BOTH PETE'S AND OUR HOUSES, ALL OF OUR VEHICLES, AND BOTH HIS AND OUR BOATS AT HIS MARINA 6 MILES AWAY, WERE SPARED!!! We do have a large pine tree now leaning dangerously over our house, but it will be carefully cut down soon. (I hope!) The Neighborhood is trashed and power poles & lines are down all over. Lots of cars and houses were ruined... (I understand 6 million people are or were without power (over all), and there were over 40 fatalities...) It has been a hell of a storm for just a Cat 2!
We are still out of power at the house, and I am writing this at the boat, which is solar panel / battery equipped, and self contained. When it is hot and sticky, air conditioning would be nice. (All that other stuff too!) Nevertheless, If the power isn't on in a few days, we may move back on the boat. The house only has a lantern, flashlights, and camp stove, and the boat has running water, lights, TV, and a refrigerator. It is just that this option requires 6 miles further for Mariam to drive to work, in this "no traffic light" anarchy. We'll see?
We are ecstatic however, to have gotten off un harmed, and with minimal losses. Life is good!
M&M

The attached photos are: Delphys before and after the storm, & the marina after the storm...
(Note the bulkhead at the back of the docks. The water was 4' higher than that, with large waves on top.) When the eye passed, the water dropped like a stone to about 5' BELOW normal!
Other shots... From our driveway in the neighborhood where our house is, and a 7,600 sq/ft house on our road that burned from a generator malfunction in the height of the storm. (Even with double digit rain, the wind "incinerated it" quickly) Luckily the occupants escaped in a boat that was in the garage!

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by PhantomBoatwork

I have enormous respect for the Pardeys both for what they have written and what they have done for the sailing community. I do not, however, believe that his conclusion is applicable for multihull construction. It is well known that the forces involved in swelling wood, as in traditional plank on frame construction, far exceed the bond strength of any marine epoxy. Any solid wood construct, such as doors or cabinets, have to be made to contend with wood movement and seasonal swelling. Failure to do so leads to open joints and uncontrolled warping. Plywood, or cold molded panels use very thin sections and are kept from swelling and warping by being encapsulated in either epoxy or polyester. In the Gougeon Brothers book on epoxy for wooden boat building quote Jim Brown as saying that traditional planked construction is like a basket that has to leak to keep the timbers swell tightly enough to seal the joints. Epoxy and plywood construction are more like a bowl- sealed and much more stable. If the underlying wood is allowed to get wet, it can and does swell and will usually destoy the fiberglass over it. Poorly sealed fiberglass tape joints will "zipper" as the wood under it gets wet, swells, pops the glass, and exposes more wood. Epoxy construction uses wood as a "structural" component which is then reconstructed in whatever shape is required. The thousands of epoxy/wood boats that are currently sailing the world would seem to suggest that epoxy does indeed have a place. My personal belief is that is would not be possible to build the current generation of multihulls without the epoxies we have, and the old standard architects of boat building would have used epoxy in their boats, if it had been avaible to the,

Well said!

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Having lived aboard my 40 for over thirty years, I have made the decision to add a second Lavac (best toilet, ever, period) in the small seat beside my queen size berth in the aft cabin. It is a very simple, compact and useful addition, and provides a backup for this vital cruising equipment. I'll send pics, but at the moment I'm involved in plumbing and reefer projects.

All of my cruising multihull builder/buddies have the Levac, and I agree with Roy. It is hands down the best, & least hassle. We have rebuilt the wall mounted diaphragm pump twice in 14 years, and that's all we've done. takes about 1.5 hours, tops!
M.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jimske

Yeah, could be a problem particularly for the old folks who may have to get up 3 or 4 times a night. ;-)

Currently I have to get out of bed on the second floor of my house and walk downstairs to "my" bathroom on the first floor so walking forward from aft isn't so bad compared to that.

Anyhow my Searunner 31 has lee cloths for privacy in the forward berths and also has curtains in both the dressing room and head area so if you are quiet it isn't so bad.

Jim

The separated front and back cabin on a Searunner, does have it's downsides. We've gotten around most of these with a full cockpit enclosure.

When unfortunately cooped up at a marina... We can heat or cool the boat as three separate but open cabins, (front/back/cockpit)... and at sea, going to windward in a gale, we can have in the forward/windward side only, and this blocks 95% of the spray!

As far as answering the "call to the head", which is in the front, and you're in the back... Most calls are obviously #1, right? We use a "Little John" urinal for all of these. It is a little red plastic whizz bottle. (West Marine) We have one in the front and one in the back. It holds 4 or 5 uses, and prevents male "spatters" around the head, frequent trips forward, vulnerable positions at the rail, and cuts the flush frequency of the head X 5 or more! The person in the back slides it to the person in the front, they flush it, and slide it back. Yep... Mariam uses it too, with the plastic female attachment. It is really not a problem!
M.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by wizard1_us

Wouldn't that depend on what the core of the laminate was? Many monohulls that have a wet core of either marine ply or end grained balsa usually replace the core with some type of inert foam, i.e. divinycell foam which is very lightweight and strong when encapsalated between fiberglass. I would have to see some really hard numbers of data as to the s/w ratio of a basic production fiberglass Searunner vs the s/w ratio of a conventional wood/epoxy built Searunner. Now I am not a boat builder, and maybe you are, however I would think that by crafting many panels and glassing them together or building the hulls in one piece and adding the crossmembers that a tremndous amount of weight could be saved, that's just my opinion. I have seen 50'monohulls in the ULDB categories that are astoundingly light and strength to weight ratio is not compromised. The whole thing I was trying to bring out was maybe it might be time with today's technologies and materials that someone could build a Searunner out of all glass, cored or otherwise that would be as good or better in the long run. It's always healthy for sure to have differences of opinions which is how we learn.

I suppose you could make a hundred or so vacuum bagged, foam core, thin glass or wood veneered flat panels, and build a Searunner out of this stack. All of our engine box, interior sole, rear bunk, & cubby space flat panels are out of this type of construction. It would come out a bit lighter, at considerably more cost in time and money. There would, however, be little advantage to building the entire boat this way, and it is far from cost effective! If built correctly in the WEST system, out of a good Okoume or Luan veneer ply, then glassed CAREFULLY... (Thin in most areas, but thick on blades, CB trunk, stems, corners, radius, seams, & chines.. Then primed with epoxy or LP "GREY" primer, for UV protection, & followed with LP top coats, you can come close to the more maintenance free boat we would all like to own. It still requires a re-paint inside and out, every 10 years or so, and can't stand hard thumps from a dugout canoe like FRP boats, but that's the price for a custom boat!

If you like Searunners, but also like the advantages of a boat with more modern lines, as well as no stringers, and therefore less interior maintenance, that would be John Marples' CC designs. They are similar in layout & design concept, but have no stringers, less windage, and a simpler rig in some ways. There are fewer parts... For the same space as a Searunner, you would need to go longer, but omitting stringers has a lot going for it. They accumulate & trap moisture, mold, and/or dust bunnies. They are also harder to paint & wipe down, than the smooth interior of a CC hull.

For us, our old 34'er suits just fine... once I finish this interior repaint!!!
Mark

[Boatguy30]

Does anyone happen to have a copy of a book with the above title by Roy Chandler. I'd be interested in borrowing and will pay shipping each way. Library says they can't get on loan.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Does anyone happen to have a copy of a book with the above title by Roy Chandler. I'd be interested in borrowing and will pay shipping each way. Library says they can't get on loan.

Cheers,
Jeff

Amazon has one... $29

Amazon.com: A 30', $6000 Cruising Catamaran: Roy F. Chandler: Books
Amazon.com: A 30', $6000 Cruising Catamaran: Roy F. Chandler: Books - CachedAmazon.com: A 30', $6000 Cruising Catamaran: Roy F. Chandler: Books.

[Boatguy30]

Was hoping to not add to my library, just a few bucks each way for media mail postage. I saw it reviewed in about a 1990 multihulls magazine I saw at Sailors Exchange. He supposedly built said cat in the mid or late 80s for the 6K

Glad you're all sweet after the hurricane. Hope we miss the next one!

[Jimske]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Was hoping to not add to my library, just a few bucks each way for media mail postage. I saw it reviewed in about a 1990 multihulls magazine I saw at Sailors Exchange. He supposedly built said cat in the mid or late 80s for the 6K

Glad you're all sweet after the hurricane. Hope we miss the next one!

I have the book - how do I know I will get it back?

J