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Old 05-06-2011, 17:53   #826
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Ice Dog,
NICE PLACE!

Shoving it on or off a beach is no problem... I have beached it high and dry on sand before, but the centerboard sticks out 6" even when raised, and the SeaClippers have no minikeel. Searunners do.

The bottom of this one IS tough. It is glassed well, followed by an outside layer of polypropylene fabric for abrasion resistance. It is ALL WEST inside as well.

Beaching regularly (to haul it out), would be a hassle, but at the beginning of the season, not a problem.

During construction, I moved it 80' into my yard by myself, by using a padded trailer axle under the fulcrum point, and pushing! Later I jacked it up 4' with ONE jack, and drove the hauling trailer under. Then I lowered it the same way. After assembly at the coast, I launched it on the same trailer. The problem was that the wood cradle and padding that was strapped to the trailer, made the whole trailer float! A bunch of friends and I ran out and stood on the trailer, and the boat floated free.

Occasional beach launches could be figured out, either by trailer, a trailer on boards at low tide and unload at the water with a jack, skids & a cradle, or carrying the damned thing!

Although it IS seaworthy enough to be a serious cruiser for one, it lacks the space to be so for two, other than for weekend and daysailing. My girlfriend (at the time), and I, did live on it and cruise the Keys and Bahamas, however.

In fact, Mark Hassle and Thor Jansen sailed a SC 28 from New York City to Bermuda, brushed a hurricane near Jamaica, and finished up in Guatemala's Rio Dulce. (New York to the Rio with only two stops) Mark DID say it was the most scared that he had ever been, however!

The boat might well serve your needs???

Hope this helps,

Mark
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Old 05-06-2011, 18:13   #827
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Andres,
If you have cruised in a Wharram Tiki 26, you know about small spaces, although this boat might be a lateral move for you. This main hull is only 5' wide and 4'6" headroom! We both slept in the front bunk at first, but tropical heat became an issue.

I later added a dropleaf to the single side settee seat, and then Mariam would put the foam seat backs on the dropleaf for the night. This made for two generous singles, end to end. It was comfortable for weekending, or a two or three month cruise, but beyond that one would get a case of "get outta my face"! We eventually had to make a change...

It really was not a LONG term liveaboard for two, and three would be out of the question, unless it was a small young couple with a child, for a weekend.

There are great deals out there on other small Brown and/or Marples tris, like larger SeaClippers, SIBs, CC designs, etc. If you look around, you might find a cherry in a simple but larger boat, for under $30,000?

Mark
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Old 05-06-2011, 19:13   #828
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hi Mark,
thanks for your quick answer and the new pictures. I love the seakindness, simplicity and the space in the open cockpit of my Wharram, but some times I would like more interior space as the big tent that I have It's very high when there is strong wind. So I began to think a trimaran may be a better option with a better cabin space on a kind of micro-cruising-multihull. I had bought the plans of the Seaclipper 24 but I found it has very little space in the cabin for my needs. On the other side, other designs as the CC 26 and larger Seaclippers don't have the simplicity of the SC 24 and SC 28. I could find very little information about the SIB but It is a CC boat, so not so easy to build as the Seaclippers. I will follow searching, and also enjoying this beautiful forum on Searunners!
Regards, Andrés.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:15   #829
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Phantomboatwork,
Thanks for the info on beaching trimarans. I went back and read about beaching in "The Case for the Cruising Trimaran" also and it definitely seems doable, even more so in the smaller sizes. There seems to be a huge difference in displacement/weight between a 28' and a 34' tri for instance as it seems to go from around 2400 lbs to 8000 lbs.

Mark J,
Thanks for the info on the Seaclipper 28. I have read most of your posts on the Cruisers Forum and have thought to myself that I would like to buy a boat that you had built as you demonstrate a high level of craftsmanship and pride in the work that you do on your boat. The Seaclipper could be the right boat for me but it is the wrong time and place. I have been well advised here on Cruisers forum to wait to buy a boat until I am finished working overseas.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:02   #830
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Mark, Glad to hear that your workmanship survives. The SC28 is a tough boat, and fast, besides (two have been clocked over 17 knots). It now lives on with a swing-wing aka design and fully enclosed centerboard. It was really hard to improve this boat. John Marples.
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Old 06-06-2011, 16:18   #831
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarples View Post
Mark, Glad to hear that your workmanship survives. The SC28 is a tough boat, and fast, besides (two have been clocked over 17 knots). It now lives on with a swing-wing aka design and fully enclosed centerboard. It was really hard to improve this boat. John Marples.
Thanks for the kind words John... And, make that "three" that got over 17 knots! We got there twice, and it WAS a rush! Mostly, she sailed at 9 to 12 knots on any good day.

I agree, that it is one tough boat, and these improvements make it much better.
Keep up the good work...

Mark
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:29   #832
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

My 2 cents on the discussion about dinks. Books could be written about this subject. My own experience is that expensive looking dinks get stolen more often. When you are cruising, there is no option to leaving the boat on the beach while you go shopping. My advice is to buy a cheap dink and let it deteriorate to a disreputable level. Paint a funny name on the side in bill-board size letters - my last dink was named DRY ROT. Everywhere we went, you could ask anyone if they had seen DRY ROT and they would tell you. Also drill large holes in the oar blades for a length of chain that locked the boat and oars to a tree. Don't carry PFDs, or anything else in the boat. You may have to argue with the Coasties about that in US waters, but just tell them that they were stolen. I would not take a dink on a cruise that I could not afford to lose.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:21   #833
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

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Originally Posted by jmarples View Post
My 2 cents on the discussion about dinks. Books could be written about this subject. My own experience is that expensive looking dinks get stolen more often. When you are cruising, there is no option to leaving the boat on the beach while you go shopping. My advice is to buy a cheap dink and let it deteriorate to a disreputable level. Paint a funny name on the side in bill-board size letters - my last dink was named DRY ROT. Everywhere we went, you could ask anyone if they had seen DRY ROT and they would tell you. Also drill large holes in the oar blades for a length of chain that locked the boat and oars to a tree. Don't carry PFDs, or anything else in the boat. You may have to argue with the Coasties about that in US waters, but just tell them that they were stolen. I would not take a dink on a cruise that I could not afford to lose.
this advice all applies to living aboard in general, not just cruising!

I live at anchor 100% of the time, and I have two dinghies - one is an old zodiac with a nice 8hp yamaha (all yamaha stickers removed and replaced by orange duct tape and other stickers), and the other is a beat-up Porta-Bote with poorly-constructed plywood replacement seats. The zodiac locks up tightly, but the porta-bote I can leave on the beach; I've got plastic oar "cuffs" on the oars, so the oarlocks don't slide off the oars, and with a length of chain through the oarlocks and around a seat the boat is rarely a target for joyriders...

(still gotta pick and choose what beach you leave it on, and during the summer months more often than not there are kids playing in the dinghy when I return... takes ages to get all the sand out!)
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Old 07-06-2011, 15:22   #834
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

I agree completely with John's points. The dinghy subject IS very extensive, and it depends on so many factors. If you cruise to REALLY remote parts of the Pacific like John has, where OB motor parts are not available, and the beach is your "dinghy dock", you might well opt for a hard rowing dinghy over a RIB. (Like the "Little Bits" I built, in the attached photo)... It would also handle a 2 HP kicker just fine.

Thoughts on hard dinks: I would epoxy coat the 1" holes in the oar blades, paint the oars white VS varnish, and NO... holes in the blades do not make them poor for rowing. They (oars) are a high theft item, so lockem! Also, if you want a cheep but soft rubrail, pool "noodles" serve the purpose, and are appropriately ugly, (but carry spares).

In our case, we don't like being crowded! Sometimes this has us anchored near the mouth of a crowded bay in a 2.5' to 3' chop. The worst was anchored in the Tobago Keys, when at high tide we found that we were only in the lee of a now submerged reef. WAVES WERE BREAKING OVER THE BOW of our Searunner!!!

We need boarding stability for aging backs & knees, cushioning from the ama hull, a boat that we could roll into (from free diving in the water) 20 times a day, and the speed to reconnoiter out of sight from the mothership. This made the RIB the right choice for us. Then again, we carry oars as a backup, and in a pinch, could usually get OB motor parts from somewhere close... eventually.

We keep little things, like hand held flares, whistle, and flashlight, in an inconspicuous pocket in the end of the canvass gas tank cover. The more "out of sight" the more "out of mind" these things are. A very thin canvass bag fastened under the seat, works well too.

Making it ugly, like John said, is a good idea. I have had a REALLY slick hard planing dinghy before, and man did eyes light up on shore. I got paranoid about it! I have never had a dinghy stolen, even when they were being stolen all around me, but it was because I was WAY more careful. (& lucky) IF and when the time comes, I plan to name my next dinghy BUD TUGLY! If it is expensive, I will make it LOOK like it's not. I mean it! Especially the motor! Also, regarding cost, while RIBs are initially expensive, they can last 15 years, and second hand RIBs are not expensive.

I met a guy up the Rio who had an all burned out motor. He told me it was new! He had squirted lighter fluid on the cowling and set it on fire, then doused it out. This did no real damage, but moved his motor well away from the top of the list. THAT'S the idea...

I found that the likelihood of theft is worse for RIBs in developed countries, like the US, but worse for hard dinghies in many undeveloped countries where a RIB is useless. Up the Rio Dulce was the highest dinghy theft problem we ever encountered, (in '00). At that time, a theft ring was stealing them mostly for the motors, and selling them cheep to the indians for their dugouts. (over half of them had a 6 or 8 HP)! These original thieves were SO efficient that ONLY hoisting in davits, or alongside AND locking, was a deterrent. With RIBS that were stolen, they ditched them nearby, once they got the OB motors off. Chain was more effective than small cable, as it was harder to cut and made more noise. NEITHER would work if you left your dinghy in the water at night.

We got away with 1/4" cable, only because it was always hoisted at night. This rampant theft problem was dealt with harshly by the powers that be in Guatemala, but in all places, these sort of problems run in cycles. If you listen to the cruising grapevine, you will know what to do, and where.

I guess that if we had a larger boat, we would have a "Little Bits" to row ashore on Chesapeake cruises, and a small RIB on the other side with our 8 HP, for diving oriented Bahama trips. Since Delphys is too small for two dinghies... AB now has a 9' aluminum RIB that only weighs 68 pounds! It is smaller and wetter than our current model, but when it finally bites the dust... Just a thought.

This is indeed a subject for a book, but in the end, the answer to the question: "What is the best cruising dinghy", will remain... "It all depends".

Later,
Mark
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Old 16-06-2011, 22:39   #835
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

In the page of Small Trimarans there are drawings and pictures of the model of the new 27 feet DC-3 Trimaran from John Marples.The new DC-3 Trimaran, designed by John Marples, has just been announced as the winner of WoodenBoat Magazine’s “Pro-Boat Design Challenge III.” Perhaps this is the boat that I am looking for!
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Old 17-06-2011, 08:19   #836
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by andres View Post
In the page of Small Trimarans there are drawings and pictures of the model of the new 27 feet DC-3 Trimaran from John Marples.The new DC-3 Trimaran, designed by John Marples, has just been announced as the winner of WoodenBoat Magazine’s “Pro-Boat Design Challenge III.” Perhaps this is the boat that I am looking for!
Andres...
I did check out the web site: DC-3 Trimaran Model Wins WoodenBoat Design Challenge III | Small Trimarans

The DC-3 is a VERY COOL BOAT! Calling it an "expedition boat" is very appropriate. The SC 28, I would call a small "cruiser". To me, the difference is that "cruising" often entails long periods of time just "hanging out" in your new destination, as well as living aboard. An "expedition", is more about being under way.

The DC-3 would be really tight below for two, when just hanging out on the hook, but under way, when someone is always on watch, this is not an issue.

IF you wanted to make it more comfortable for when you get there, and save your skin on the way as well, you could add a bimini top and zip in front/side curtains for rainy days in the anchorage. This avoids the "GETOUTTAMYFACE" syndrome. Adding a full cockpit enclosure to our Delphys has gotten around the downsides of a central cockpit. Enclosures are best thought out before building, so you can move winches, cleats, & such around to accommodate the enclosure, rather than the other way around. These things are expensive, but not so much if you make most of it yourself. In my youth, I lived mostly "outside", and didn't wear a shirt or stay in the shade during daylight, (for 20 years)! As I'm turning 57, my damaged skin is the price I have to pay. If this were to be used strictly as a weekender/daysailor, a simple bimini would be plenty of UV protection. For cruising... A canvass OR Strataglass connecting piece alone, that attaches the bimini to the raised cabin in front, or a dodger, would make it where you can leave the companionway open at anchor, even in the rain. This goes a long way in alleviating claustrophobia.

John's talk on the web site explains it very well, but here are some of my observations & comparisons to the SC 28:

My old "demountable" beams (which I had made permanent), were not what I'd call trailerable, even if I HAD left them "demountable". It was transportable from an inland building site for sure, but too much hassle for keeping it in your yard and regularly taking it out on weekends. I understand that swing wing akas have been incorporated into the 28 now, just like the DC-3. This makes them truly "trailerable" boats.

A CC design is SOOO much better. (Faster build too). Stringers are a pain to build, sand, coat, paint, de-mildew, and maintain. They are in the way... IF you found another builder, (or two), to share in the expense and work involved in building the mold, it really helps the equation.

This design would be much more protected at sea. Our SC28 was incredibly WET going to windward. This was why I built the observation bubble, to stand watch from down below. The DC-3's central cockpit would be dryer.

Having a fully retractable CB is a plus. Although the newer SC28s have this also... (My old SC28 had it sticking out 6", even when raised).

MY old SC28 had a kick up ruddr/skeg for impact protection, but I wouldn't consider it an easily beachable boat. The DC-3 is. I would beach it in the Bahamas in a heartbeat. As John points out, this increases living/sailing space, because of the dinghy that you DON'T have to carry!

The CB and protective keel band, both being off center, may seem weird at first, (it was for me), but once it hits the water, you,ll never give it another thought.

Besides trailering... Having akas that swing back, allows you to keep the boat in a standard slip as well. The disadvantage of the "other way" that some designers do this, by the akas going up, while the amas tuck in, is that the amas are then sitting in the water, a bit on there sides. You can't do this for long, before you have a serious growth problem on the topsides of the hulls. Also, a Custom built "one off", painted with LP paint, that has it's amas with their sides in the water, would soon get paint blisters! SWINGING BACK IS BETTER!

While the "foot space" on the DC-3 is very small, the cabin blisters give "visual space" as well as counter/shelf space. These hull side extensions should make for a dryer ride as well.

Having the porta pottie head in the back, is much better than below the front bunk, like on my old SC28. Also, storage back here increases space in the front cabin, because of the clutter that no longer HAS to go in the front cabin.

Having fuel & water storage below the central cockpit, ala Searunners, is a GREAT solution. It has them in a separated part of the hull, centrally located, and down low.

I don't know that I'd want to have it as my "only home", as my SC28 was for two years, but for daysailing, weekending, or warm weather "expeditions", with a "not so large" couple, this is a really great design!

I hope that there is enough interest that John draws up the plans and makes them available.

Keep on Searunnin...
Mark

Photo: A small bimini like this, unlike on Searunners, is neither complex, heavy, nor expensive. SAVE YOUR SKIN!
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Old 17-06-2011, 22:07   #837
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hi Mark,

a small boat is always a compromise. I like the double bed in the DC-3 and the privacy of the two cabins when having guests. I am thinking of a couple in the main cabin and a single in the aft cabin at the most. Where I live is a small country and we are never very far away from a village or town so I don't need a big cruiser. In my cat I have been in small rivers with the stem in the shore and an anchor at the stern or in a small lake with an anchor at the beach because the boat floats in knee's deep (this is the picture in my avatar). So we always can go for a walk and this avoids the "GETOUTTAMYFACE" syndrome. But some times I like go to a place that the only choice is a marina and I need more interior volume. I have slept in the tent in the marina but is like camping in a square, and I don't like it.
I agree very much with you about the need of a bimini for sun protection and may be a dodger too. In my boat I have a dodger which gives good protection when going to weather, but it gives no protection from the sun. I am not very interested in trailerability, but I think that the possibility of reduce the beam and lowering the mast, could allow the boat to cross under small bridges and then improving the range as an expedition boat when venturing in rivers.

The CC construction gives a cleaner interior with no stringers and this is good, and also you can make rounded bottoms with less water surface. But I think the construction method of the seaclippers is more simple and may be more easy to repair by myself (I am not very handy). I am not interested in speed so the rounded bottom is not important to me, but I prefer the simplicity of the Seaclipper construction and from an aesthetic point of view I also prefer the stright lines of Seaclippers 20, 24, 28 than the rounded in the DC-3. As the DC-3 is a design that is not in the final stage, could be that John draws a plywood version of the boat that would be very interesting to me. (I am not saying that the present version is not interesting, it is, but I would like to see how could be a plywood version).

Regards,
Andrés.
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Old 18-06-2011, 04:49   #838
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hi all,

Just a quick question to anyone who has Australian (or US) registered a searunner 37 ... what did you list as the gross tonnage?

thanks

Jon J
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Old 19-06-2011, 14:49   #839
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

In New Zealand 5 1/2 ton
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Old 21-06-2011, 03:31   #840
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Re: Trimaran cc 44 john marples

considering a 1995 cc 44 in nz , well built and equipped and seems in good order. I know they are great cruisers and well regarded, but the market for a wood epoxy tri is very small and they are much harder to sell than a equivalent cat. Here it is, http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=131580965 What do you think this boat would sell for and how easy to sell in your part of the world, I know it is worth a lot and would cost a lot to build but is there buyers out there. Not that I would be selling it again soon but just not wanting get an idea of its realistic value. thanks dave
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