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Old 01-05-2011, 20:02   #751
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Hello,

Since I joined "Cruisers Forum" because of this thread, thought it would be fitting to post my first time here.

I've been searching for best retirement liveaboard/cruise options for myself. I want cruise Gulf Coast/East Coast/Bahamas (maybe Great Loop) to start. I've seen most of the world already, but will want to go more blue water at some point. I think I would rather have one boat to do all above even with compromises that will entail.

Surprisingly (to me anyway), shoal draft options seem very limited in traditional liveaboard/cruise world.

Started looking at Reuel Parker Sharpies, Parker Marine and Wharram catamarans, James Wharram Designs -Home of the self-build Catamaran. Some how this led to Jim Brown's new Seaclipper 20 and Scott Watts, Seaworthy Solutions. This opened a new line of thought with trimarans.

Had some basic knowledge of trimarans, however only knew of modern hi-tech kind, which like most modern cats, I find out of reach economically and out of touch practically (too many gadgets that are beyond owner maintainability).

Have been thinking about building, but haven't ruled out buying.

If building the Constant Camber (35 and up) and Seaclipper (34 and up) seem good options.

Buying adds the Searunner, maybe as small as the 31.

There seems to be quite an assortment available in the under $60K range.

Any thoughts and comments appreciated.

Jim
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Old 02-05-2011, 13:00   #752
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Re: Drive shaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassarassa View Post
Hi,

My 37 has a yanmar GM20 diesel installed on the port side beside the centerboard casing.

First a really dumb question - does it matter that the shaft is necessarily on an angle not parallel to the centerline?
As far as I understand things, this is normal. At least, that's where my Yanmar 3HM is on my '37.

Quote:
Secondly - there is no flexible coupling in my drive train, should there be?
None here either. Never really thought about it - anyone else know?

[quote]Thirdly - The engine seems vibrate a lot. I'd like to replace the engine mounts to see if this does anything to help. This is really subjective I know but how much vibration is too much?[quote]
Hmm - is it the engine when in neutral, or the shaft shaking when you're pushing? It could also be your cutless bearings needing replacement, I think I'm in the same boat over here. My engine doesn't vibrate excessively on the mounts, but at certain rpms the whole back end of the boat shudders rhythmically.
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Old 02-05-2011, 18:08   #753
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

The Port side of the CB trunk was the originally drawn location for Atomic 4s. They were long narrow gasoline engines. When most were switched to Diesels, it was a TIGHT fit, but since moving the shaft is a huge pain, most folks forced it in.

IF one installed an engine from scratch, and was willing to move the shaft, putting the engine in the middle galley section, under the companionway steps, is preferable, (with a upper engine box for the last step). This makes it MUCH easier to get to & work on.

The shaft has to clear the skeg to get it in or out, so needs to be angled, or off center. Mine is 2" off center, along with the engine, but parallel to the C-L.

I used an "Aqua Drive" CV joint, which has a telescoping double U joint, & swivels in every direction. It also has a thrust bearing to take the load off of the engine feet. This allows for SOFT engine feet, and considerable misalignment. Without it, the engine must be perfectly lined up with the shaft, and KEPT that way through periodic re-adjustment of the feet! (They sag over time). Any changes, and the engine & shaft flanges are out of plane or out of parallel. This causes either binding and extra ware in the cutlass bearing, or wobbling/vibrating of the very long shaft. It also needs a cutlass bearing at "both" the strut AND the outside of the shaft log, unless it is over a 1" Dia. shaft.

The CV joint like I use is best, but expensive, and takes a lot of work & space. I consider it money well spent! Otherwise, a "drive saver" flexible coupling, is better than none at all, and allows for ever so slight misalignment. Mostly it just dampens vibration a bit.

It is very important nonetheless, that your engine be properly lined up, or you will have excessive bearing wear, noise, vibration, or the shaking shaft may even whack against the stern tube walls.

The CV joint has none of these problems, as the engine can shake, but the shaft only spins, perfectly in place.

Good luck, Mark
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Old 02-05-2011, 18:22   #754
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ret-Tri View Post
Hello,

Since I joined "Cruisers Forum" because of this thread, thought it would be fitting to post my first time here.

I've been searching for best retirement liveaboard/cruise options for myself. I want cruise Gulf Coast/East Coast/Bahamas (maybe Great Loop) to start. I've seen most of the world already, but will want to go more blue water at some point. I think I would rather have one boat to do all above even with compromises that will entail.

Surprisingly (to me anyway), shoal draft options seem very limited in traditional liveaboard/cruise world.

Started looking at Reuel Parker Sharpies, Parker Marine and Wharram catamarans, James Wharram Designs -Home of the self-build Catamaran. Some how this led to Jim Brown's new Seaclipper 20 and Scott Watts, Seaworthy Solutions. This opened a new line of thought with trimarans.

Had some basic knowledge of trimarans, however only knew of modern hi-tech kind, which like most modern cats, I find out of reach economically and out of touch practically (too many gadgets that are beyond owner maintainability).

Have been thinking about building, but haven't ruled out buying.

If building the Constant Camber (35 and up) and Seaclipper (34 and up) seem good options.

Buying adds the Searunner, maybe as small as the 31.

There seems to be quite an assortment available in the under $60K range.

Any thoughts and comments appreciated.

Jim
You need to talk to Scott, at XS boats in St Augustine, Fl... (Google him)

He is selling a CC 35 for a client, and it is within your budget! This is a WONDERFUL design, just like Searunners, and both designs have features that many production multihulls lack.

(They have low windage & COG, high wing clearance, modest but comfortable accommodation for their size, appropriate width for their length, and really good visibility forward).

You could build one for about the same amount of money, but it would take several to many, full time years!

Call him!!!
Mark
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:43   #755
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Good afternoon.
Based on the great knowledge base and camaraderie in this forum thread and after having read all of Jim Brown's books, I took the plunge and bought a 37 ft ,1982 Searunner in February. I have lived on St. Thomas since 2000 and rarely see Searunner trimarans down here. I found this boat in Culebra so it was basically next door and made the decision easy, but I have never owned a wood/epoxy boat before.

I have many questions for the long time Searunner owners on this forum but will start with a very basic one.
The boat needs bottom paint badly and I hope to do it myself this summer after I sell my other boat, a 33 ft Edel fiberglass catamaran (and no, it is NOT fun owning two multihulls at the same time). The boat is in basically sound condition - was improved and lived on by the owner for over 10 years - but needs some upgrades like roller furling, bigger prop and longer prop shaft (13 inch prop only clears the hull by 1 inch), mast to come out and mast base replaced (made with Ipe hardwood and is not taking the strain), etc.

Question - Do I sand the old paint down to the bare fiberglass? How do I prevent removing too much of the fiberglass/epoxy on the hull. Do I reapply a 2 part barrier coat? And what type of paint is recommended for warm (and getting warmer) tropical waters? Hard or ablative or a combination of the two?

Thanks for your input
Bob Petersen
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Old 03-05-2011, 16:17   #756
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Welcome Bob,

Questions come to mind, like is it a WEST system boat, and epoxy glassed outside, or polyester glassed outside & only paint inside??? (Rather than epoxied first inside)...
If their is epoxy inside, it is likely epoxy glassed outside.

I would use a high quality ablative paint myself. (look up Practical Sailor results for the latest, "BEST".) Multihulls especially, need a smooth consistent bottom, without a lot of OLD buildup. Old thick buildup usually falls off in chunks eventually, leaving a mess.

My professional quality #1 sander, is a 6" Porter Cable model 7336. Get one of these, you'll need it. Also a 100 box, of peel & stick 80 grit disc & the peel & stick 6" soft pad.

DO NOT USE A ROTARY GRINDER WITH 8" SOFT PAD & 36 GRIT! It would ruin the hull.

You should sand off about 95% of the old paint thickness until the hull is just ghosting through. Try NOT to expose the hull itself, as you don't want to remove ANY of the resin under the paint. I put on enough to remove a bit, but most builders did not.

A lot of this is a judgement call that requires being there. IF the sandpaper clogs IMMEDIATELY and it seems more like soap, then you probably have Vinyl bottom paint. YUCH! It would need to be completely removed! (WITH A VERY LIGHT TOUCH)!

IF you do this and have NO places where glass fiber shows at all, then you could paint over it with hard or ablative paint. If there is any doubt, or it is polyester, or you just want to have fewer problems over the years, then epoxy the hull below the WL.

WEST resin has done the most research & has the best instructions, (READ UP thoroughly)... so it would be best, IMO. You can use their Aluminum barrier coat additive if you prefer, but if your hull is already epoxy, you don't have to. IF it is polyester, I would.

After thorough paint removal & solvent wash, mask the amas' WL first, with 1" wide 3-M Fine Line. There need be no jack stands in the way, as they can go to the outer wing area instead. Now you roll on 4 coats in one day... (roller tip). It would be good to do two coats as close as possible & then remove tape. Than re-tape the WL. Epoxy over the tape will make tape removal VERY hard to do. Then do the next two coats... all 4 in one day.

The next day, wash of the Amine blush & sand to a smooth consistent glaze. Don't wait a week until the resin gets rock hard. You will have removed at least 1.5 coats of your 4... This is a bare minimum barrier of 2.5 - 3 coats left on there, after sanding.

Next do the same to one side of the main hull, and when finished, do the other side.

Now the bottom of the mini keel CB and CB trunk are left. This is too much of a judgement call to say, but by this point you should have a feel for it. Do what it tells you. We have blocked our hull WAY up in the air to work in the trunk with the board down. We even had 60 knots of wind in a storm with it this way. It was a sphincter factor of 9.8!

IF your hull is already "epoxy" glassed, in excellent shape, AND your current paint is NOT vinyl or ablative, (which require sticking with the same), and if you sand most of it off without making a mess or going into the glass at all, THEN...

You can skip the epoxy barrier coats. Assuming you want to use ablative as I do, here is the procedure. Doing like above, & painting the amas first, then after ALL coats are done, paint the main hull, going around in a circle.

I thin the paint more than most, and use multiple thinner coats, applied with an 1/8" thick WEST foam roller. This gives results VERY close to sprayed! (=1/2 to 1 extra knot of speed!)

Apply two coats of hard base, like Trinidad, in a contrasting color like black. You CAN do two a day IF it is just right! Then over the next few days go over it (chemical bond), with your chosen ablative with a different color like green. 4 - 6 coats! (Several more on radius, stems, bottom of keel, leading and trailing edges of CB/skeg/rudder etc)

This will give you several years between haulouts, and bring the cost inline with monohulls. Over the years, you just wipe the hull gently with a Kevlar dive gloved hand, on a regular basis, and should seldom need to take a putty knife to it.

Because your base two coats are HARD and a different color, you never sand further than the black layer, OR let it ware away. It keeps the precious layer of epoxy under the paint in tact, and when areas of the green are turning black, the ablative has worn away and it is time to repaint. Never sand away the black base!

BTW... Never paint over ablative with NON ablative.

Love Culebra BTW. The protected diving on the PR side is some of the BEST!

Hope this helps,

Mark
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Old 03-05-2011, 16:23   #757
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Hello all. New topic, originally posted on the multihull forum, and kindly redirected here.
Hello all. I'm new to this forum, and have been a power boater for many years but my wife and I recently learned to sail, and are considering a searunner as our next boat. Maybe we will do some traveling now that the kids are out of the nest. I like the reputation and seagoing capabilities of the Searunner boats, and their quirkiness makes them even more so. Let's just say we don't mind being different, especially if it's better! We like the multi-hulls, our latest fishing boat is a World Cat and we love it. We saw a listing here in Florida for a Searunner Tri called Comocean. It is almost new, and looks good too. Anyone know anything about this boat? Thanks in advance...
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Old 03-05-2011, 16:28   #758
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Sorry, the link didn't post. I'm new at all this!
Try this; 2008 Custom Searunner Trimaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 03-05-2011, 17:46   #759
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

This vessel is modified enough that it is not really a Searunner. (Similar at best). It must be a stretched 37, as there was never a 39 drawn. Some of the ideas look OK, but others like the OB motor in a well, not so. Being so "different", all aspects of the boat are an unknown. It may be a good boat, but may not??? All that foam can cause & trap moisture related problems, unless it was built out of Okoume or Luan ply, REALLY well WESTed, and all parts easily inspected.

One other issue that I consider a deal breaker... Did the original builder pay for the plans? There is only one boat allowed per design fee, (which is INCREDIBLY reasonable). There was a period that someone was poping out multiple copies of stretched 37s, all built to one set of plans. This was effectively "stealing from the designer"! If this was done here, I consider the practice bad Karma!

Another point... In this price range, you could get the very best 5% of the 40'ers, which are MUCH better, bigger, boats in most respects.

Relatively small builder changes are how we all express ourselves, but this rises to the level of trying to "out think" Jim Brown & John Marples. I have seen dozens of attempts, but no successes yet.

It could be that this is an exception, but based on the photos... If you feel OK about these issues... LOOK IT OVER VERY CAREFULLY, and sail it in a variety of conditions first.

M.
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Old 03-05-2011, 18:24   #760
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

I have a 'stretched 37', where a previous owner added 2' to the aft cabin and widened out the roof a little - it was subsequently surveyed by John Marples and the work pronounced sound and seaworthy, so I'm ok with it. The only thing I see in these pics that makes me question it at all is the steering mechanism - I can't tell if it's hydraulic or what.

I ran the gallery pics past my first mate and we both agreed - it's a nice boat but seems to have a bit of an identity crisis - three double berths?? The two of us have a hard time finding storage for all of our stuff, and we have one double berth and one single. I'm guessing maybe it's intended for short cruises or passages, but then it has a workbench and 420w of solar panels?

In our opinion it's overpriced. but honestly without seeing the workmanship up close it's really hard to tell. I'd love to climb into the amas and storage cubbies and have a good poke around!
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Old 03-05-2011, 19:44   #761
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Mark,
Thanks for the thoughts on the CC 35, I had seen that info recently. Haven’t contacted Scott yet, been researching on internet. I will need some time to finish researching my decision. I have to allow time to get past “cool, I want one now” factor. It’s a big investment.

Drew,
I’ve been enjoying your Blog. Tie Fighter is really looking good.

Jim
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:18   #762
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

Searunner 40 Wanted

My Boss has decided it is really time for me to retire. Does anyone know of any Searunner 40's that are actively on the market? My plans are to buy a good cruising boat for one couple during the month of June 2011.
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Old 05-05-2011, 20:45   #763
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners



Seafire was for sale in Blaine, WA not too long ago.

The web page is still up, but I haven't seen her listed in 48 North lately as she was for a while... Top quality boat, though.

Seafire
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:37   #764
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Re: Trimaran (Especially Searunner) Owners

The Searunner 40 Maxolar is on sailboat listings.com has been there quite awhile.
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:54   #765
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Re: Drive shaft

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Originally Posted by sassarassa View Post
Hi,

Thirdly - The engine seems vibrate a lot. I'd like to replace the engine mounts to see if this does anything to help. This is really subjective I know but how much vibration is too much?

cheers

Jon J
Hi Jon , Vibration that is visible to the eye, is too much - If it is vibration that is only discernible to touch - that's ok

Normal causes :-
Coupling alignment
Cutlass bearing
Engine Mountings
Injector malfunction
Fouled Propeller
Richard
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