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Old 17-03-2011, 20:58   #721
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Wow! Thanks all. Opinions and experience most welcome.

Yes the boat is at the dock when I try to lower. I am reluctant to leave the dock until I figure this out. There is no block on the board, just a line hauling aft and up to the winch.

On my 25 we had specially modified cleats that would allow the line to pull down and out if we grounded, but the 31 has a straight cam cleat. Maybe I need a more sophisticated pennant.
I have a diver coming this weekend to look at the paint and wormshoe clearance before I start building.

Is a professional non-wood board worth the investment?

Will S.
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Old 18-03-2011, 13:28   #722
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Will,
I didn't mean to infer a block on the board itself. Our two blocks are on the CB trunk wall. In the 37 I cruised on, the line went through the trunk ends, into the for & aft cabins. I don't know how the 31 is laid out?

Our fit is snug enough that we did actually have a few coats of bottom pant too many once, and let's hope that that's your problem as well. It is the easy fix!

I would definitely use a 1/8" fuse line on the pennant. When our board is fully down, rather than tie a rolling hitch on the pennant every time, we hook the "fuse" line onto a 1" loop of webbing, that I sewed onto the pennant, 15 years ago. It still works great!

My personal take, is that the wood board, as drawn, is the way to go. The folks who have had centerboard, rudder, and skeg problems, didn't have anywhere NEAR the amount of glass that I have. The 1/8" min. that I suggested on the sides, may be 6 or 8 layers of 10 oz. fabric, I don't really remember... I even glassed the inside of the axle pin hole 1/8" thick before doing the sides, and later glued in a hole liner of rubber hose in the axle hole, as a cushion! You do have to make the board about 3/8" thinner as a wood board, then, since the wood densities vary, making it difficult to longboard sand into a perfect foil, I get it close, fill the low spots with microballoons, sand fair again, then put on 4 coats of resin. Next, sand most of that resin back off! Now that you have a surface that is all plastic, it will sand uniformly.

The process of 4 coats on, 3 coats sanded off, may have to be repeated more than once, until the shape is a really fair foil, with NO hollows or flat spots, and a very sharp aft edge. The idea is to shape it before the glass, not after!

When glassing the sides, you can let the glass run past the aft edge, about 1/2", every layer. Trim it with a razor blade, while firm but green. Then wrap the forward, top, and bottom edges each time. Putty that piece hanging off the back, so that the top surface of the face that's up, blends into it. Now lay a sheet of glass on the top the same way.

Each time, fair in the glass wraps a get it so the next side layer will have no voids from non faired glass edges.

Do this until the glass sides are over 1/8" thick! Now you have the sides, but big bulbs at the wraps, and not enough glass at the top, bottom, and front.

Make yourself some glass tapes by cutting 10 oz. cloth on the BIAS. (Dressmaker's roller blade fabric cutters, like a pizza cutter... and a straight edge, on a pressboard table top, make this REALLY easy.) This homemade bias cut tape will have ALL of it's fibers going across the joint, making it twice as strong, and it wraps a radius MUCH better. I can LITERALLY fiberglass a tennisball, with bias cut glass! I have put three staggered width tapes like this, on every ply seam, and every radius, on the entire boat as well.

You want 1", 1.5", 2", wide tapes for the front, and like 7", 8", 9" wide tapes for the top & bottom. Lay up three or fore in one day, then the next day sand off the overlaps on the sides completely, so the board is fair again.

Do this process until it is about 3/16" thick on the edges, at the top (still full width) 1/3rd of the board. Do The front until the forward radiused edge, and the bottom, are 3/8" thick, gently tapering into the 1/8" thick sides.

At the bottom 10" long "contact zone", where the front foil edge goes around the radius, to the bottom of the board... I let the glass tapes overlap, so it is even thicker here!

I wanted it where taking out a 1/4" chunk on impact, will not let the wood get wet.

Now do a final shaping sand to flatten those tape wraps on the sides, then coat & sand several coats of epoxy until it is fair, and NO exposed glass fiber shows anywhere. The wrap from the bottom of the mini keel into the trunk, needs to be as thickly glassed as well, BUT LEAVE CLEARANCE!

We did our rudder and skeg in a similar fashion, and it all requires that the piece start out too thin, or with too much clearance... to make room for the glass.

Yes, this is many weeks of hard work, but if you make it out of a more rot resistant but lower density core, it needs to be glassed just as thick to keep it from crushing on impact, and the extra buoyancy works against you in the effort required to crank the board down.

Other than a couple of soft groundings, we had one case where our board "while down", was strafed by a barnacle encrusted crab pot line... at great speed and impact! It only made a 1/16" deep scratch across the board, which we filled a year later. (NO water got to the wood)

On launching day, I hit a log SO hard with the skeg, that it lifted the main hull almost out of the water. Although I discovered transom frame damage 10 years later, the skeg took the blow without the wood getting wet.

I have heard many complaints about Searunner's Centerboard / trunk, minikeel, rudder, and skeg problems. I don't think that a non swelling more rot resistant material, is the answer. Epoxied & glassed wood is an incredibly strong, hard, stable, long lived material. (Mine is 31 years old!) I think the impact zones & really high stress points, need a LOT more glass than has normally been the case. IMO. Since these areas represent less than 1% of the boat's surface, the extra weight is minimal.

Hope this helps, and you don't have to make your board over... Mark
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Old 20-03-2011, 17:00   #723
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Mark -

Thanks for a wonderful description - 30 years of practice does seem to improve the fleet and the gear.

I had a diver down on Pineapple today, and he was able to move the board all the way up and down from below without difficulty, so I'm thinking that my problem may be paint + pennant purchase.

The lifting line seems to lift it with a tug now, though winching it down is still way more of a strain than it should be.

I'll still plan to work the board over closely on my next haulout, but I'm somewhat comforted and don't feel like I need to build a new board immediately. We left it in the down position, and I'll see how she looks after a few sails.
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Old 25-03-2011, 06:50   #724
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hey ya everyone. Sorry for the absence, just returning from Alaska to Mexico. In the airport now.


Hey!......... anyone recognize this design?

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&access=Public

Thought it might be a CC, but I am not too sure. Almost looks like GC on the plans, which is Gold Coast, a very successful builder design team in the Carribean. Roger Hatfield sailed there on his 31' Searunner and the rest as they say is history.

Also here is one you do not see very often. Anyone got a few years?

1996 MARPLES FAST CRUISER 44 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale

Will take me a while to catch up, looks like lots of good stuff still happening on the Searunner forum!
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:13   #725
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hi Jack, Welcome back! Time to get in some sailing...

I didn't recognise that first boat, and the second one brings up the question, "Why do people let their boats go for so long"? What a nice design though!

I just asked the following question about DUX rigging of John Franta on Spar Talk, and since you are the local authority here, I thought I'd ask for your opinion as well...

Hi John,
the comparison that I would like to see between Dux and 316 SS wire, is @ 18 or 20 years old under moderate use & climates. Of the countless thousands of boats in our area, (Eastern NC), there has only been one dismasting in the last 5 years to my knowledge, and it was a new racing boat under extreem conditions. If one removes from the conversation the < 5% who are cruising all over the world, or live full time in the tropics... The other 95% spend winters in the Bahamas, are daysailors & local cruisers, or make a couple of one or two year Caribbean cruises... still spending the majority of their years in our moderate lattitudes, and brackish water. Of this 95% of cruisers around here, almost all go over 18 or 20 years before changing out their rigging, some even go to 30 years, (admittedly at their own risk)! Has your accelerated UV testing made a compairison to wire at this 18 + year life span, under the above circumstances?

Another point I am curious about... You made up a couple of DUX runners for me that came out GREAT. Thanks for the accuracy! They are for my running backstays, and DUX seems like a perfect application here. I normally leave them "made up" and fairly snug, to use as a handhold when boarding the boat. When using the staysail, I will put 4 more turns on the "quick adjust" handle turnbuckles, but so far, haven't given them the acid test.
I go to the boat daily, and have noticed that @ 75 degrees F, the runners are quite snug, but @ 40 degrees F, perhaps that same morning, they hang completely limp. Since solid materials expand when heated, and contract when cooled, it can't be that the DUX has gotten longer on a cool morning. I assume that the metal mast has contracted at a rate vastly higher than the DUX, creating loose runners in the morning. Presumably with wooden or composite spars this is less of a problem,. My wire rigging has never done this "changing tune with temperature", and I imagine that it's because the wire expands and contracts at a rate somewhat similar to the metal mast.

With aluminum mast that are long & skinny, (like mine), and dependant on consistant shroud tension to keep the mast in column, wouldn't this become a problem if I tune the rig in the summer, then go sailing on a cool fall day? Has anyone else noticed this characteristic? I have done a LOT of reading on synthetics, and have yet to see this subject brought up...

Best regards, Mark
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:17   #726
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Hello everyone!
We are so happy to finally join your ranks, as Searunner owners!!! We purchased the 31' that was discussed a few pages ago by Greg W. He was asking opinions on the boat...but ultimately didn't purchase due to width restrictions of his boat slip (or so I was told). The boat was located 400 miles from us. We're in Louisville, KY , the boat was just north of Detroit. We drove up last week, placed a deposit, rented a U-haul and brought back tons of 'stuff' for the boat. All these things were in the garage of the man building the boat. The boat itself is pretty much just the hulls. The amas are brand new. The main hull is older but has been totally repaired. It's an awesome, solid, dry boat. Just needs to be put back together regarding the interior, and some minor fiberglass work on the outside. We also got all brand new sails with roller furling, and new dodger.
We hired a neighbor with a 30' flatbed, hooked up to our old 26' boat trailer, and headed back up (see our photo album). It took about 4 hours to dismount the boat, then loaded the amas on our trailer. Luckily, there was a marina just one block away, and they loaded the main hull on the flatbed for us. Turned around, came home, and unloaded her with a forklift behind our house. I (Anna) was SO nervous the entire trip!! But everything went perfectly.
Now--for the work. There are some parts we can't figure out what they are. Will be posting pictures for help!!
We are ages 47 & 48...with the goal of cruising by age 50. We are power boat crossovers....and feel that we've never made a better discovery. (There are very few sailboats in our community). We are currently taking classes on the Ohio River, and hoping that in 2 years will know enough to take our precious Searunner down south.
Why we chose the Searunner: Monohull was never an option or consideration--when compared to multihull, it just isn't logical to us. First we looked at cats, but they are really expensive, plus we learned that tri's are better when looking for smaller boats. We strongly considered a Telstar, but couldn't bring ourselves to pay $60,000-$70,000 for a 28 ft. boat. Then, we came upon Jim Brown's book--The Case for the Cruising Trimaran, and the rest is history. We just had to have one of these boats. (We are very attracted to the simplicity also). We chose the 31' mainly because we could take it apart and trailer it home. Also, we ultimately would like to trailer it maybe 1-2 times yearly....for exploring new areas. I think trailering isn't the main problem--the boat is light--the problem is getting her put back together and in the water, right?
So anyway--just wanted to introduce ourselves.
We are currently trying to come up with the perfect name for her.
Her previous owner, Greg Barnes (who is listed on several Searunner owner's lists) called her Ole. Greg passed away of a heart attack before realizing his dream. We really do want to honor him by finishing her and getting her on the water....
Lastly, I want to thank all of you. We've been lurking here for months, and have gone over and over your pictures. We love the colors of Pineapple Express! And Riki-Tiki_tavi's stern steps (which Greg had started). You guys are so knowlegeable....we hope to learn just a little from you guys.
Regards, Anna
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Old 02-04-2011, 18:21   #727
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

WELL 50 pages I love CF.
Charley & Anna I liked you photos keep putting them up so we can see your progress, and good luck 2 years is not long but you have the advantage of walking out your door and your at your work site.
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Old 02-04-2011, 18:43   #728
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Charley and Anna , Congrats on your fine choice in buying your Searunner. I would suggest going back and reading Mark J's posts ,as they are a wealth of info on Searunner maintenance/ mods. Maybe he will write a book someday. Scott
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:27   #729
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Thank you. Yes, we will read Mark's posts. And, order another set of plans from John.
One question---Maren mentioned a few pages ago, that the construciton manual is going to be published again. Does anyone have more information on this? Like a time frame? We need one!!
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:14   #730
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Smart move , ordering plans from John. You should go to www.outrig.org to view Jim's videos about "Scrimshaw" , the Searunner 31 that is Jim's personal boat. They will help you to a greater understanding of your new "baby". Jim will be here at the shop at the end of the month to discuss new materials on the market and new techniques since the release of the original manual. You will probably see a press release about the revised manual on Small Trimarans .com by mid May. It will be available on Amazon , most likely by summer. Scott
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Old 03-04-2011, 20:15   #731
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Thank you so much, Scott!!
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:43   #732
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

hey all
just found this link to what looks to be a partially-completed searunner 31 in a barn out in the sf bay delta and thought i'd post a link here just in case anybody is interested in some hulls.... looks like it could be bought for a song, if not less.
Searunner Trimaran Boat Project - Make Offer
cheers,
nick
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:23   #733
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyAnna View Post
Thank you. Yes, we will read Mark's posts. And, order another set of plans from John.
One question---Maren mentioned a few pages ago, that the construciton manual is going to be published again. Does anyone have more information on this? Like a time frame? We need one!!
I can tell you for a fact it will; I spoke with Jim about it last week. Right now Jim and John are looking at a couple of changes. The reason is the original was built before epoxy was in. It was addressed in the Economy Searunner and Jim had the (now expired) patent on Constant Camber method which uses epoxy, but you can see how it can look dated it there is no substantial mention of epoxy. Same goes for other things like washing your hands in acetone. Not a good idea by the way.

But there are a lot of different ways they could incorporate the changes and they are mulling on the best option.

Time frame: I don't know. I do know it will come out as a book, though it could also come out as a PDF if they wanted.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:20   #734
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

Jim Brown just contacted me about a 2 week class he and John Marples will be teaching in August at The Woodenboat School , in Maine. The course will cover the many areas of their Searunner construction manual, updated to the use of epoxy. The class will be building a Seaclipper 20 folding trimaran . Sounds like a great way to meet them, learn about the construction techniques used in all of their designs , and check out one of their newest. BUILDING THE SEACLIPPER 20 Trimaram
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Old 18-04-2011, 17:40   #735
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Re: Trimaran ( Especially Searunner ) Owners

I have come up with the perfect name for my Searunner----Pegasus!!
I'm so excited. We live in Louisville, KY home of the Kentucky Derby. The Pegasus is the 'mascot' of the weeklong celebration. Plus of course our beautiful boat has two 'wings' and will carry us off with the wind.....
OK please don't tell me there are 4 other searunners out there with the same name......
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