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Old 25-06-2010, 13:56   #586
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Wow Roy! What an impressive list of upgrades. As much as it is all true about complication inviting maintenance, if really done carefully, the comforts of home make it worth it. Especially if it is a life long relationship that you have with the boat, and it IS your home. I really love the proportions of our little 34, but the 40 is much more able to deal with the weight of all of these systems. More space to put them in too!

Great that you are coding wire ends & I bet documenting these systems as you put them in. It can make a nightmare into just a small chore, knowing: "How did I put that in"...

I like your idea of a cradle for the sail. Any photos would be appreciated when you can. It might restimulate my creative juices. I have really thought this through & came up with a similar idea. It's funny how if you do this, it totally changes that. I think that the reason I culled the tubing cradle & lazy jacks idea, is that first, the existing reef system, and mainsail cover are perfect right now. Because of my marginal pay load, I opted to not have an insulated ceiling. (GREAT option for the 40) Instead we decided on "Gods on awning"! It was a LOT of work. 70 hrs/wk for for 6 weeks, for two people. I do the engineering, layout, & gromets... Mariam does the sewing. This awning was so complicated, because of all of the rigging wires that had to pass through it, necessitating that it not flop around. And it had to be VERY strong. It works great, but an insulated ceiling would be nicer, except for the blessed total shade in our cockpit. Nevertheless, we did what we did, and this wonderful awning only works in conjunction with the sail folded & put away exactly as it is. Also, lazy jacks would not work with the awning, unless I made them removable. With our full battens, the sail is pretty easy to flake on the boom. There is just this clearence problem... And we plan to RAISE the bimini a bit more!

We also lightened the boat a bit with light weight materials. All of our floors, cubby lids, flat panels, engine box, & dodger top, are very thin veneers of ocoume ply over cores of Kledgacell, or Verticell. It is a great way to shave pounds!

I know that you lean toward more comfort than us, as the 40'er can, but we have gotten by fine with a little Power Survivor water maker. It is 21 years old & still works! (3 gals / day is about all we need.) We run it for the first two hours each morning, and the solar panels still bring the batteries back up by about 2:00 in the afternoon. BTW... The small weight of this system is MORE than made up for in water that we don't have to carry. We keep a minimum of 30 gallons full. If the unit craps out, that should get us to a water supply. (at least where we cruise)

I also will be repainting this summer. The front cabin this time. This is when I curse the stringers, & cubbys everywhere. I guess this is the price we pay for having a place for everything. Switching out lights, & our 4 Hella fans too. (for Boras) Too many of the good ol Hellas, develop a rattle. I think they have down graded their quality control?

L-16 batteries. GOOD CHOICE! Trojan makes great ones. Really good if you add Hydrocaps. We started out with L-16s, & a couple of years ago switched them out for L-14s. (more like 335 AH, rather than 380 AH) With our daily use of 40 AH or so, these should last 10 years! IF I don't do something stupid, (AGAIN), & let them go completely dry. Hydro caps reduce watering to every few months or so... but I do have to stay on top of it.

On our small 2 cu/ft frige, we used vacuum panels to get the equivilent of 7" of foam. It was expensive, but worth it. The lid is air tight as well. I guess we use between 20 & 35 AH / day. We still need more insulation on the common wall with the engine compartment. When we motor down the waterway, the frige runs TOO much!

Our windlass upgrade, done in Trinidad, was the longest delayed, for many reasons. The little 34'er, just didn't seem large enough to handle the weight, and as a fit younger man, I didn't think I needed it. A decade of cruising later, things looked different. It was a windlass, quit cruising, or a divorce! (another story) The problem was that the drop for the 110' of 1/4" chain, put the bottom of the box WAY below the waterline. This should not be a problem for you on your 40. Anyway... I had to put a float switch in a screened sump, at the bottom of the chain box. This actuates a Gulper diaphram pump to drain the locker. I knew it would be complicated, so put it off year after year. The windlass, wire, chain, chain locker, & washdown, might have added 100 or so #s to the bow. Not good, but fine on a day hop. When going out on a passage, I now put our Delta 35 in the wing anchor locker. If it seems warrented, I put the chain in a canvas bucket, & move it back there too. Perhaps it's not trimarany, but sure extended our cruising years.

Good luck with all of your projects! You sure have a lot going on. When the time is right, more photos would great! My favorite ideas are the free ones, that I didn't have to figure out myself through trial & a lot of error... Mark

BTW... The fabric "Hypolon" witches hat, to seal the haws hole to the anchor locker, was Jeff's idea. He used it on his old 40'er. Very clever guy. We'd like to go for a visit too!
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Old 27-06-2010, 12:53   #587
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Cool pics Mark! Here are the photos of the boom unit. It was designed by Fritz Richardson and built by a local stainless magician. Fritz is perfecting the next version for his boat, then I will get a shot at the third one. This particular boat is a 34' Hunter. The "basket" tapers aft, the lazy jacks are attached to the top tube and attach to the mast outboard on the spreaders to give it a great catch angle. The owner had had a terrible time with the original lazy jack rig. This one works like a dream. Note the use of the StrongLuff mainsail track. The sail now drops like a stone into the arms of the lazy jacks and is almost perfectly folded. Then, the crew simply pulls the sailcover zipper forward to close it all up. It eliminates a separate sail cover, gives folks a secure hold of the boom, and does what it was designed to do. The newer unit will be lighter, and will disassemble for shipping via FedEx.
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Old 28-06-2010, 18:54   #588
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Thanks for the great photos Roy. That is exactly what I had visualized. In my case, the epoxy job on our ceiling was covered with enough checks, that I was afraid to cover, (insulate) it. Plus there was the weight. Thus our big awning, which would seriously bear on the boom railings. Plus the lazy jacks and the awning conflict... If our awning wears out or tears up, I may re think the entire deal. I really like the tubing sail catcher, and lazyjacks that go to the spreader ends, wouldn't chaif the mainsail under way! Really clever stuff. Mark
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Old 19-07-2010, 22:31   #589
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hey folks,

doing a major renovation/refit over here - well, I had hoped it was just going to be a few minor repairs and a paint job and that I'd be out a week or less, but it's been just shy of a month working fulltime 10-12 hour days without a break. I'll have some photos to show soon, but I had a quick one for you:

I have a Searunner 37, and I want to put bilge pumps in the amas. I picked up a couple of 1250's and some 'Water Witch' solid state switches, but where should I mount the pumps? more to the point, where is the best place to put a through-hull to pump the water out? I was thinking the underside of the wing, but more specific would be good.
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Old 20-07-2010, 06:04   #590
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Hi Drew,
Boatyards are great arent they. You work your tail off and pay them for the privilege!
About your question. I used float switches to a central console that then set off an alarm. (a switch in each cabin and each ama bilge) The console shows "where" the water is.

I suggest the smallest of the "doughnut float in a perforated cylinder" design of float switch. (the most reliable) I used a VERY small size that was meant for tight spaces and low current, like alarms. I even got mine custom altered by the manufacturer to go off at 3/4" rather than 1.5"

The WaterWitch concept is problematic. Contaminates like oil / gas can cause them to fail, and the same is true about fresh water. (up the Rio Dulce in Guatemala was one of our most memorable cruises)

You want to keep a dusty dry bilge throughout the boat. The amas should have greased "o" rings on their closed vent caps (when at sea)
The hatch is then the only opening. We might have gotten a half of a pint in there it the 12 sea days/2,000 mile passage from Trinidad to the Beaufort NC inlet. That's how tight your hatch should be!

So if you do this... You would have to hit a log HARD, to have water in there. Still, the alarms are a good safety in case you didn't remember to cap the vents, "dog" the hatches, Or kick the "dog", as we have done... The alarms are a really good idea in the main hull, because the through hulls and engine are potential "silent leaks". Here automatic pumps are good, but you also need the alarm. If the pump goes off, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY! If it is soon enough, you don't flood the engine!

You don't really want automatic pumps in tha amas. because you want to know what has happened first, and then you can pump out the water yourself. If you really want something fancier than a canvass bucket for this unlikely event, I'd skip the "Centrifugal bilge pumps". You would need the through hull near the deck, so as NOT to destroy the very important inverted "airlock", and the through hull would be more likely here to flood the ama than pump it out.

You could have a single hand operated diaphragm bilge pump up high in the head area, with a "Y" or a "T". (one leg going to each ama, with each one having a normally CLOSED ball valve right next to the pump) This pump would exit through a 90 degree through hull right below it. The entire plumbing could be PVC pipe except the last 2' next to the hand pump, which would be 1.5" vinyl hose. The far end of the PVC pipe in the ama bilges would have low restriction, screened "boat bilge" check valves.
If you wanted to test for water, You'd just open a ball-valve and pump like mad for 30 seconds. If it only sucks air... there is no water!

The thing is... This system still doesn't give you an early warning like the float switch to alarm does. If your alarms go off, you just go dog the hatch that you stupidly left open, and pump out that 5 gallons of water when you get where you're going.
Assuming your hatches are appropriately tight, if you have more water in there than that... YOU'VE HIT SOMETHING, and that WAS your alarm. Then you turn down wind, fix the problem, and get 90% of the water out with a bucket...

Good luck, Mark
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Old 29-07-2010, 09:17   #591
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Searunner 40 SOLD for $11,400

120598898452 Ebay item # 1991 Searunner 40. This was (I think) at Jarret Bay Boat Yard in NC. The bible beaters won't tell you where it is until you pay in full. I was thinking of looking into this and seeing if Mark could have a look, but have been away sailing. Just ended a few minutes ago. Wouldn't be surprised to see it up again in a week or so. Looked fairly decent, but SOOOO hard to say from the picture. Would be interested to hear about anything anyone comes up with.
Cheers,
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Old 29-07-2010, 21:58   #592
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Boatguy, this is the best resource I know. I use a search engine that is free. It scans the entire Craigslist if you ask it to. I just typed in Trimaran and got 4 pages of boats. The program is www.craiglook.com Give it a try, amazing, when you think of bi monthly magazines or Sunday want ads. You can save 10 different searches, and the highlight when a new listing hits. I just bought that "just right" car for my daughter this way. The good ones go fast I think.

These boats popped up, but there were many more Crosses and Pivers, and others. Give it a try.

Searunner 37 Trimaran

37'trimaran,brown searunner

34' Seaclipper Trimaran

31' Searunner Trimaran

I actually had something of an epiphany (Defined as an understanding or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization. The past couple days, I really struggled with some old ideas and new ones on this....... and I think the Searunner boats tie into it real well. Bear with me as I try to hack it out on the keyboard what is swimming around in my noggin'...:-)

There is a well respect mechanic in Washington state who has made a great business out of keeping Mercedes Diesels alive, and writing tutorials for DIY type guys. There is a cult following on these 70's to 80's Diesels. Many consider the best car ever made. But they are all getting older, even the really good ones are 30 or more years old. So you are either rich, or do everything yourself, or drive a beater.
https://mercedessource.com/

Ken has the gift of teaching, and so well versed on his subject. I bought his small book "how to buy a Mercedes Diesel" He really goes into why these are such great cars, and how so many people believe they need one. I am sure many of you here know why. Diesel, economy, longevity, low operating costs, on and on. Well all that is true, but certain years have terrible AC and heaters, seats the fall apart etc. All those things to watch out for.
One of the very best lines in the whole book. I mean it just jumped out at me. "The most expensive car you can buy, is a cheap Mercedes"
This is because even the best ones are getting old, and need a lot of care and attention. The ones that have been abused or unloved all these years are just a giant money pit. Time and money. You will go broke trying to pay a mechanic to make you econo Mercedes up to speed.
Buy the very best, wait, be patient, don't buy that bargain thinking you can fix it up.
Now we turn to Searunners. From the same era, the 70's. My boat was launched in 1979 I think. In many minds it is the pinnacle of the Searunner because of all the slight changes made to the 34'. O.K so what? All the reasons we love these boats were designed and built in 30-40 years ago on most these boats. The ocean did not change. Jim never once took a survey to see what the market wanted, he designed a brilliant cohesive design that is timeless, and better over time. Gimmick free. But like the Mercedes Diesel of the 70' and 80's most of these boats are similar in age. I would venture to say this " The most expensive Searunner you can buy is a cheap Searunner" I would add, I know all too well how easy it is to really want a (Searunner) boat so bad, and too over look a few things here and there. I have looked into gapping ripped up quarters and thought, well a few blankets, some paint, well be good.
I would put fwd. for any ones comments, and experiences of their own. The way these boats are aging, it is getting harder to find ones that are well taken care of, and the dogs are in the bushes everywhere. The time need to bring a boat back and the cost in life terms and money is unbelievable. If you have not already done so, read Marks well written pieces on his rebuild, or the couple that just spent 8 years and gave up with being able to finish.
These darn boat's are so demanding of your time on money......They give back a lot, but to get them there is huge. The boat demands, and life gets in the way, folks get sick, jobs change, holidays, kids...all this life stuff is always there, and now you have a boat sitting there slowly falling apart needing all your attention. All the more so with a dog, all the very much more so with a dog.
Searunner is a magical boat, I am here to tell ya. I gave Jim Brown a big long hug last fall, I told him I have been going to sea for 35 years from all in cold climates. I have owned two of his boats a 37' and 34'. I described to him and Mead Gougon why I liked this boat......Mead said "you just cut through 99% of the BS that the sailing world gets put on them"
So there is something of a dilemma, I will try to wrap this up. I went today and looked at my first Mercedes 1979 240D. 2.4 liter Diesel...It is the million mile car that half of Europe and Africa have for taxi's. It was loud, slow, very slow on acceleration, everything was worn and tired. Every nob and window and on and on. SLow noisy......
I was shocked when I got back into my VW Jetta TDI!....here was the same niche car 30 years later. 4 cylinder Diesel 4 door. My car is half the weight, twice the horsepower on a 1.9 liter engine. It handles like a sport car. Has killer sounds system (factory) Elect. mirrors, cruise control, heated seats, super quiet, no smoke, comfy, fast and gets better fuel economy than the famous old Mercedes Diesels, sun roof, on and on. It is how far we have come! The old Mercedes is still a timeless design. But as I approach the cult members, there is nothing but a 240D or 300D.
So as boat guys, what do we do to find good boats to have. The old designs are "classic" and nothing has changed about the ocean, just like the road has not changed. If you find a boat that is "unloved" It will be a demanding aprtenter that will consume all you have and more, and leave you spent and waiting for the next guy.
Find the best one you can, if there are none, I wonder what the new best new Tri is? What is the Jetta TDI of cruising trimarans out there? I am more than willing to keep my boat up, but I have a great platform to start with. When I inspected my boat, I had so much crap onboard (the guy was a slob) I had to move stuff to see into places. There I could see the aircraft grade spruce stringers with really long scarfs, and great joinery work, marine grade plywood and everything built to plan.
The guy had taken a roller to the entire deck before he left. NO tape. He rolled everything, and all the stanchions, fittings, cleats turnbuckles etc. were hit with white paint. I hated it. I just about walked. Then inside the ama's I saw those stringer and all the frames were so well layed out, not many epoxy drips. It was worth it. I am so glad I did it.
So we have a great design, built 30 years ago, and it is not too hard to stay ahead of. The same bat could have been a nightmare and still not seaworthy. I just keep thinking about the new 4 cylinder diesel car. What is it for us?
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Old 30-07-2010, 09:44   #593
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Jack, That was a great tribute to both the man and the design and, in effect, the lifestyle. Thank you. I sometimes think about building a new boat, particularly after a hard day working on my own. I try to think of what kind I'd choose. Only three emerge: Jim Brown, Jay Kantola and Norm Cross. The hulls of each have their strengths, and relatively little in the way of detractions (notice, I didn't say weaknesses). And my leanings would go for greater use of composites and less of wood products. But these are the musings of someone at the end of their boatbuilding career, who understands how challenging it can be to build a boat from scratch, and also to refurbish a boat from an earlier age. My Searunner 40 was one of the first to be fully constructed using West system epoxy and other modern materials (LPU, carbon fiber, graphite powder, etc.). My only real regret was that better plywoods than Douglas fir weren't commonly available in 1974-78. And that the Yanmar diesel was still in some Japanese engineer's mind when I installed the Volvo MD2B. But time goes by, old equipment, wiring and circuits get ripped out and upgraded, better storage ideas get born, and our experience with the hull and rig improves to the point where we can depend on the boat to survive otherwise nasty disasters. Jack is absolutely right. Don't waste time, energy or spirit on a cheap boat. Find a good design, improve it or build a new one, but don't try to bring a tired one back to its youth, especially if it spent its youth in wild abandon. Life is too short to waste it.
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Old 30-07-2010, 19:16   #594
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Change and the Renaissance man.

Hey-

That's great except I think you need to do a bit more homework on climate change. I'm all for a bit more drilling, but people need to stop blowing fuel at 75gph on their 45' foot weekenders and asking like we can just go get more. The world is changing and Jim Brown will be the first to tell you that. Except I'll see much more in the next 60 years (if we live that long) than he's ever imagined.

I'm 32 y/o and owned among many others cars below.

1979 240D
1983 300SD
1986 VW Golf
1995 Jetta TDI
1998 New Beetle TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
1990 Ford E350
Several GM 6.2 and 6.5L diesels
1993 & 2000 Dodge 350 Cummins Diesel
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Old 30-07-2010, 19:49   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Hey-

The world is changing and Jim Brown will be the first to tell you that. Except I'll see much more in the next 60 years (if we live that long) than he's ever imagined.
Boy, I don't know.I'll wager that Jim's boats are just the tip of his iceberg of an imagination.
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Old 31-07-2010, 23:25   #596
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just ran across these.....:-)
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Old 02-08-2010, 20:22   #597
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Hey guys,

Nearing the end of my refit over here - I'm on day 36 of my 14-day haulout.

Can someone with a Searunner 37 post some pics and details about their pulpit? I've got a guy here who will fabricate one for me, but I don't have a set of plans... I'd like to build up something as close to the original specs as possible.
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Old 02-08-2010, 22:18   #598
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Drew, we have a song we sing in Mexico " I am on the 25th year of a two week vacation." Here are some shots of my pulpit. In one of the shots you can see the 37 next to me, his is actually shorter. I think they are are very similar, and the guy just has to measure. I know Jim Brown sugested making a cardboard template of the deck line, and the guy can shape the pulpit around that. Good Luck!
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Old 03-08-2010, 22:08   #599
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Great stuff Jack and Roy. Keep writing. We love it!
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Old 07-08-2010, 18:32   #600
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Jack & Roy... Great stuff. Well written indeed! I personally would not want to invest the time & money on any old ply boat except the best 10% that are lovingly maintained, WEST system built, and with LPU paints. My first boat was the previous technology... Also, I renovated the first 37 decades ago, and I found that the constantness of the maintenance, and short lifespan of conventional paints, would be a dealbreaker for me. This is why I always made "standing the test of time" my #1 priority! These boats have a LOT of surface area to keep up with otherwise. The one exception would be if someone found a 25 for $5,000, and they just planned to get their feet wet, to see if they really wanted to go for the big ride. You might get one good season out of such a boat, and then you cold give it to a "sea camp" or something. For a real long term sea boat adventure, going cheep is false economy. Find the best boat you can at any reasonable cost, or build it right from scratch; are the only logical choices. If you find one for 4 times the going rate of the "bargains", It still makes more sense, and is cheaper in the long run.
Roy, I agree totally with your list of "the best of the old designs", but would add John Marples' CC series. (perhaps this was implied with the Browns?) These are Searunner interiors on sleeker, longer, better looking hulls... and are easier to build due to CC system. (all of the Searunner advantages, but need to be longer to have as much accommodation)

Drew... Here are a few shots of our bow rail. It is just like Jacks but longer. I found this to be usefull when raising the staysail in a gale, handling the spinnaker, or climbing my way to the bow while cutting through a pass in the reef through 8' breakers!
We took the most expensive welders bid, by twice as much, because he welded the SS on the space shuttle! (He was only moonlighting doing boat rails) We can dive off of it, and regularly stand on it for a better view. I can suggest this... Get yourself about a 2' X3' sheet of 1/4" thick Phenolic sheet. (AKA- "Micarta") It is DAMN expensive! This stuff is about crush proof, glues well, takes paint IF you want to, is water and rot proof and last indefinitely. You can make all kinds of things out of it... like hatch turnpegs, chainplate moats, and bases under stanchions & railings. (shape & glue them onto the deck before bolting railing bases to them.) These phenolic bases will keep the inevitable "hard spots" on the bow railings SS bases, or the flexing over years, from crushing wood fiber or crazing the thin glass job of the boats' deck. Otherwise these "bases" all over the boat, are a maintenance hassle. (I also use "starboard" rather than teak for toe rails & such) I have "0" exposed teak on our boat. Spend the time and money now, to keep the time & money low when you're "out there" without a job! Mark
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