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Old 09-03-2010, 10:20   #526
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Randy, Can you send me the hyperlink for this paper? I haven't seen it. My board is the result of a lot of head-scratching, long conversations while imbibing favorite "industrial solvents" with Bob Dixon, Jeff Allen and others. I'm hauling out in May to replace the board and remove the mast for overhaul. Hopefully, all will be ready for some testing this summer. Wanna go for a ride?
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:17   #527
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Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Randy, Can you send me the hyperlink for this paper? I haven't seen it. My board is the result of a lot of head-scratching, long conversations while imbibing favorite "industrial solvents" with Bob Dixon, Jeff Allen and others. I'm hauling out in May to replace the board and remove the mast for overhaul. Hopefully, all will be ready for some testing this summer. Wanna go for a ride?
Actually it's from the thread on 'plywood use' http://www.mothboat.com/CMBA/Building/foils.htm
As for sailing - anytime and that goes for helping out on any of your projects as well!
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:42   #528
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Roy,
Your new board is VERY impressive! What a work of art. And at 90#s, that makes payload for about 8 more cases of beer!
We also really "went for it" on the strength, ruggedness, & shape of the CB, skeg & rudder, thinking that this is the wings that make er fly! (glassed really thick) Thing is, being solid ply & glass, they were heavy! I wouldn't be surprised if our centerboard is close to 300#s! And, as you know, "long boarding" is how one gets the foil shape to match the templates. I'm sure that shaping foam is MUCH easier than long boarding a glass / epoxy, ply core board! Good job!
Now the big pay off.
Hope the "ups & downs", work as planned.
Mark
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Old 09-03-2010, 18:00   #529
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Thanks Randy and Mark! My plywood board easily weighed about 300#, WHEN IT WAS DRY. This new one is a gas. Bob Dixon deserves the greatest part of the kudos, though. I know very little of foam, and enough about composites to be dangerous. Bob has sailed on more multihulls, built and modified for so many big names, that he is as a god in the heavens of go-fast creativity. And yes, longboarding foam is a dream. I am very lucky to have him as a friend and collaborator. I am getting pretty stoked about using these materials when we start the hard dodger (along the lines of DELPHYS) later this summer.
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Old 09-03-2010, 20:02   #530
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Roy,

Congrats on the new centerboard. All of us Searunner guys and gals certainly would like one similar on our vessels. Lighter and stronger has to be better. I need to make a new rudder for ETAK and have given serious thought to a foam and carbon board. All the advice, input and ideas you can share would be appreciated.

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Old 10-03-2010, 10:46   #531
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Rann, That's a good application of this technology, I think. The skeg might be a different story since it must be able to survive a high impact incident. When I built my skeg/rudder and centerboard, back in the mid-seventies, I used a special type of plywood, called Finn-Form, containing in a 3/4" piece, about 14-17 plies of birch, with a highly waterproof glue. We used this stuff for forming concrete on multi-level high rise flooring. After sixteen floors, the surface was scuffed, but the panels were die-straight. While learning my boat, I impacted the bottom a number of times, causing fractures to the leading edge of the centerboard, and resulting swelling of the plies. I built another, using conventional Douglas Fir exterior grade. After 25+ years it had cracked and swollen again, which I patched last haulout. Since then, knowing the repair was temporary, I worked out the current design, with the exceptional help of Jeff Allen (my mentor in building my boat) and Bob Dixon, both quite accomplished guys. Who knows? Maybe I'll start work on a new rudder using these materials. I have enough spare material to do so. Thanks for getting my brain juices flowing.
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Old 16-03-2010, 16:23   #532
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Roy, Do you have any idea of the cost to make your new board? Do you have a 34?
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Old 16-03-2010, 16:24   #533
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Sorry, didn't read enough, you have a 40. Have any idea what a new board like yours would be for a 34?
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Old 16-03-2010, 16:28   #534
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Wizard1,

I will be talking to Roy in person in San Diego in about a month. I have a 34 and we can probably come up with an answer (if he doesn't already have one for you). I am in the process of building a new rudder and may have to do the same with the old centerboard.

Rann
ETAK, Searunner 34
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Old 16-03-2010, 17:21   #535
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Rann, just curious, how old is your boat?
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Old 16-03-2010, 17:26   #536
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Old! Built in San Diego in most of 1977 by Doug McGraw in a little less than one year. He and his wife sailed her to the Sea of Cortez and spent three or so years cruising there. He sold it to a man in Alaska who sold it to a man in Calgary. I bought it from him in 1990. It has been in the Long Beach, CA area since then. I let it deteriorate too much over the years, and I am now in slow process of bringing her back. If you have access to old Multihull Magazine, I can send you over a date when Doug's wife wrote an article on ETAK that appeared in one of the issues.
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Old 16-03-2010, 17:46   #537
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Rann,
Less than 1 year? I'm impressed, I guess it must have seemed like the original build quality was good for you to have picked it up. I've been thinking of building a Constant Camber 35 if I can find the right place to do it but didn't think it could be done in that time frame even full time. The CC method is supposed to be really quick for hull construction.
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Old 16-03-2010, 20:19   #538
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Interestingly enough, Doug did a good build on the boat. It is sail #15, but the second one to launch, based on what he told me back in 1990. He built her to the plans. The finish work left a little to be desired, but she was built soundly and well. One of the issues was at that time the instructions called for only taping the joints in the deck with cloth, not covering all the wood. So, with doug fir ply, the resin without cloth to serve a s screed, allowed the grain to split. I spent a big portion of 1990 redoing the decks and re-glassing all the topsides. The real chore was getting the non-skid off. It was sand in paint. Ever try sanding sand? It doesn't work, so my wife and I laboriously heat-gunned it off. Then we glassed it with 6 oz cloth and West epoxy. THAT was when I learned what amine blush means! So some of my new work had to stripped off and re-done. That was one of the times my wife's tears flowed, after all that work!

But, Doug was a fast and methodical worker and actually got her splashed in about 11.5 months I was told. His statement to me was, "I had a four year window for building and cruising. Build in one year and cruise for three; not the other way around." And he did it!

I could never have done it in that time frame,even when I was much younger. Look at how long it is taking Paulo Afonso in Brazil to build his 34. I think he is in his fourth year and still has a ways to go. His original plan was two years if I remember his comment (in Portuguese) on his website. index

We are hoping to get all our ducks in a row this year in order to spend some full-time on finishing the refurb of our 34. That is the next big goal in life.
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Old 16-03-2010, 21:44   #539
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Wizard1, It cost close to $3000, because I had the money but not the time, I hired Bob Dixon to do the heavy lifting. Of this, about a third is materials: clear heart redwood for the bearing core, 1 1/2" polyurethane foam, epoxy resin, graphite tape, glass, kevlar. I've got leftover materials which I'll use to build the hard dodger (along the lines of Mark Johnson's opus magnus), or maybe a new rudder and trim tab to cut the weight even further. I am eyeing the Auto-Helm (from Scanmar, not Raymarine) as my non-electric autopilot, I also already have the Raymarine unit for when I'm flush with electrical power.

Rann, I'll introduce you to Bob Dixon when you come down. He is a fountain of cool ideas. As far as building time, it took me four years to launch WILDERNESS. That was considered pretty fast for a forty foot epoxy boat. I've known 37 footers that were built in just over a year. The key is to have a covered shelter, dry, temperate winters and springs, and enough money to not have to wait too long for gear and materials to show up in your shop. Oh, it helps to live in your yard, as well, so you can work at any hour of the day and night, pee, grab an apple and a sandwich and a beer, and get back to work sanding (which is the major labor element). Buy the highest quality tools and materials. Your time is the most valuabe element.
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Old 16-03-2010, 23:43   #540
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And at that Roy you'd say Bob cut you a helluv a deal.
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