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Old 24-11-2017, 11:54   #4066
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Just another note in the weight vein, Looking at the specs on Oryx, Pete states that the average crusing weight is 9000 lbs. The displacement of the stock KD860 is 3000 kg to water line, or 6600 lbs. Oryx is about 16% longer, so it stands to reason that the the acceptable cruising weight would grow by that amount......... giving a weight of 7674 pounds to water line, putting him approximately 1426 pounds over, which falls right into line with the acceptable overload on the Searunners.

The bridge deck clearance on the KD is supposedly 500 to 600 mm 19.6" to 23.62" My measurement on drawings suggest 19.6" is much closer to reality than the larger measurement. Bridge deck pounding or underwing pounding on a tri are concerns that increase with loading.............

H.W.
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Old 24-11-2017, 14:18   #4067
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by owly View Post
Just another note in the weight vein, Looking at the specs on Oryx, Pete states that the average crusing weight is 9000 lbs. The displacement of the stock KD860 is 3000 kg to water line, or 6600 lbs. Oryx is about 16% longer, so it stands to reason that the the acceptable cruising weight would grow by that amount......... giving a weight of 7674 pounds to water line, putting him approximately 1426 pounds over, which falls right into line with the acceptable overload on the Searunners.

The bridge deck clearance on the KD is supposedly 500 to 600 mm 19.6" to 23.62" My measurement on drawings suggest 19.6" is much closer to reality than the larger measurement. Bridge deck pounding or underwing pounding on a tri are concerns that increase with loading.............

H.W.


I wish that my “getting out there” on one adventure or another, had not taken so much of my life... working my ass off while living in VERY humble digs, but we do what we must.

I am 63...
Since leaving home at 15, (still finishing up to a year of mechanical engineering) and at least learning to draw, then working a bit as a draftsman, a third of my life has been boatbuilding/repair/systems installation, (the vocation), sometimes while living aboard... A third has been boatbuilding my own 3 cruising boats (avocation), and a third of my life has been really cruising or living anchored out in clear tropical water, free diving every day for dinner, and making friends from all over the world! I wish that the 2/3rds spent working was vs versa!

Right now... we are stuck in work mode UNTILL 66, and SS kicks in. Hopefully, I will have ok health, and Delphys in perfect condition, one more time by then.

Right now, I am spot priming the newly repaired hard dodger, which had a number of unseen zippers at the base flange, over 21 years of use.

It took 1,000 hours or so originally, and then, other than the cut outs, had NO holes in it.

Now, because of epoxy lined bolt holes, and connective studs for the cockpit enclosure AND the snaps for the Lexan covers, it has 200 holes in it!!!

Painting it this time is WAY more complicated, and I now know better, so will use GRAY primer for UV protection, and THREE topcoats of white. This protects the extremely vulnerable epoxy/glass from UVs, which can shine through white paint over WHITE primer.

About weight... payload numbers are so impossible to compare, because each designer defines payload differently. Some mean an empty boat! Jim meant a boat ready for week ending, with some tankage and basic tackle AND hardware, still had this in reserve for longer cruising.

It is great with an old boat design, too look at 100 different copies’ transoms, in the water, and where they float.

How many have covered a LOT of cruising that weight?

Searunners with the Ama elbows still out of the water, trimmed level, at rest, are overloaded, but still plenty safe enough to have one of the best safety records of any design, EVER!

If the elbows are regularly submersed by 3”, hell no! It is OK for living and working in the hook, but never getting caught in a storm at sea. The pounding would be horrible!

I re-built the pounded out underwings of a SR37 decades ago, which had circumnavigated, but the new owners had foolishly put several thousand pounds too much on her.

It STILL got them home, upright, btw!

Our SR34, loaded as described earlier, normally has the elbows at least an inch of not two, out of the water, at rest. It carries a LOT more than folks think, but this is, IMO, the MAXIMUM I would put on her. I actually lighten the boat regularly, as technology allows, like new, our 50 lb lighter RIB.


If memory serves... A really cool cat voyage is described in my several hour audio CD from OUTRIG media.

It was “Magic Carpet”... with friends, Chris and Karin Enore, from Australia!

Their boat was the only beach cat conversion I ever saw or read of, that worked! It started out as a 29’ or so “hulls only” daysailer, that was VERY lightly extended to 34’ with sugar scoop transoms, and they added a 5’ headroom bridge deck cabin over. They invested in the $10,000 roller furling boom, that made this a safe sea boat, as it had to be sailed with quick throttle control.

It was remarkably light and very comfortable below, but SIMPLE and spartan. THE WINDAGE AND COG WERE VERY LOW!
They had an OB for propulsion, and had no motor for their tiny little dinghy. This meant they always anchored close in, where as we might be 2 miles from the dinghy dock, for privacy.

Compared to our SR34, They had a Bimini but no full awning, no SCUBA gear, nor the same amount of tools we have, on and on. We carried WAY more stuff, if not in weight, in volume. It was not their ONLY home.

This was a remarkably successful, highly skilled cruising couple, who over 10 years, went around the world, returning to Australia, where they still cruise Magic Carpet on the GBR!

Their bridge to water clearance was not great, but obviously, it worked for them.

Comparing cats to tris... sometimes for the same wl, the tri actually carries way more stuff, just not more “weight” in heavy stuff, like tankage and tools.

Look them up. They are fairly famous down under. I LOVE THEIR BOAT!

I prefer tris for serious cruising, and prefer the motion, but this was a cat I could love, for shorter cruises.Click image for larger version

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Old 25-11-2017, 13:30   #4068
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Gday Mark

Magic Carpet started life as a Rogers 10 (sort of) which is actually the hulls of a Crowther 10 that Adrian Rogers had bought. Then Chris and Karin added the bridgdeck cabin in Thailand they added some length. I last saw them in 2014 in the Whitsundays. I like the pics of them on your book cover.

Another friend of theirs circumnavigated in a Crowther 10. So you can do it (of course) in smaller cats. I like hanging out with serious cruisers who have smaller and simpler boats. It gives you some immunity against marine affluenza.

1000 hours for a dodger - that is serious time. I hope it doesn't take so long this time.

cheers

Phil
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Old 25-11-2017, 15:49   #4069
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Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
Gday Mark

Magic Carpet started life as a Rogers 10 (sort of) which is actually the hulls of a Crowther 10 that Adrian Rogers had bought. Then Chris and Karin added the bridgdeck cabin in Thailand they added some length. I last saw them in 2014 in the Whitsundays. I like the pics of them on your book cover.

Another friend of theirs circumnavigated in a Crowther 10. So you can do it (of course) in smaller cats. I like hanging out with serious cruisers who have smaller and simpler boats. It gives you some immunity against marine affluenza.

1000 hours for a dodger - that is serious time. I hope it doesn't take so long this time.

cheers

Phil


Thanks for the clarification, Phil... We had meals over at their boat (with 6 onboard) for pancakes, and it was remarkably commodious.

Considering the size of the boat and payload limitations, number of years involved, and relative lack of “sea story disasters”, I felt like it was one of the most highly skilled circumnavigation that I knew of! I was quite impressed... NICE FOLKS btw!

Sometimes, the folks with smaller boats have the most fun. Not the most comfort, perhaps, but most fun.

The dodger:
After 50 years as a boatwright, this dodger Is my “opus”! When I built it 22 years ago, I wanted it very light, (< 75 lbs), ventilated, strong enough for TWO people to stand on, (to handle sails and high mast winches), and accentuate vs hurt the lines of the boat.
It has made our boat what she is to a degree.

In hind sight, however...
My advice to others is, go for the first three, but back off on aesthetics, build an overhanging, round cornered ply top, with three faceted front frame, and use lockstrip channel for the flat sections of Lexan. (WITH CANVASS COVERS)!

This would not be as sexy as my vacuum bagged, cored composite, all soft lines, bent Lexan front version, but might only be 20% as much work, and equally as utilitarian.

My only complaint... has been the effort it took. Luckily it was always a “filler project”, sitting in the shop to occupy down time, (for years) so did not make the overall boat project take much longer.
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Old 27-11-2017, 19:24   #4070
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by owly View Post
Just another note in the weight vein, Looking at the specs on Oryx, Pete states that the average crusing weight is 9000 lbs. The displacement of the stock KD860 is 3000 kg to water line, or 6600 lbs. Oryx is about 16% longer, so it stands to reason that the the acceptable cruising weight would grow by that amount......... giving a weight of 7674 pounds to water line, putting him approximately 1426 pounds over, which falls right into line with the acceptable overload on the Searunners.

The bridge deck clearance on the KD is supposedly 500 to 600 mm 19.6" to 23.62" My measurement on drawings suggest 19.6" is much closer to reality than the larger measurement. Bridge deck pounding or underwing pounding on a tri are concerns that increase with loading.............

H.W.
Annie Hill, Pete's ex, has just posted a note on her blog saying that ORYX is for sale. Nothing in her post that you don't already know, other than that ORYX hasn't sold yet.

Voyaging with Annie Hill: Oryx is for sale!

In case you didn't know it, when Pete lengthened ORYX, he also increased the bridgedeck clearance to 600mm.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/.../messages/2862
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Old 28-11-2017, 08:40   #4071
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Annie Hill, Pete's ex, has just posted a note on her blog saying that ORYX is for sale. Nothing in her post that you don't already know, other than that ORYX hasn't sold yet.

Voyaging with Annie Hill: Oryx is for sale!

In case you didn't know it, when Pete lengthened ORYX, he also increased the bridgedeck clearance to 600mm.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/.../messages/2862

That bridge deck clearance is 3-4 inches more than my measurements off the drawing I have...... Bridge deck clearance is a major concern for any multihull, and especially a catamaran. The biggest issue would appear to be in the center, where the combined wakes hump up. I find it interesting that on some cats, there is a nacelle right there to provide standing head room, where a "hump" as on the floor of rear wheel drive cars and pickups would seem more logical, though it would be a total pain in that location.

H.W.

Oryx is of course well outside my price range....... I'll buy a Searunner I can afford, so I have money left in my cruising kitty........ If I'd lived a more "conventional" life focused on acquiring wealth and assets, I'd be in a better situation. Who wrote the famous lines about how every voyage should be started on a firm foundation of financial insecurity, or something to that effect? ....... The shoe fits.
It's both interesting, and useful to look at alternatives instead of focusing on only one.


H.W.
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Old 28-11-2017, 13:29   #4072
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by owly View Post
That bridge deck clearance is 3-4 inches more than my measurements off the drawing I have...... Bridge deck clearance is a major concern for any multihull, and especially a catamaran. The biggest issue would appear to be in the center, where the combined wakes hump up. I find it interesting that on some cats, there is a nacelle right there to provide standing head room, where a "hump" as on the floor of rear wheel drive cars and pickups would seem more logical, though it would be a total pain in that location.

H.W.

Oryx is of course well outside my price range....... I'll buy a Searunner I can afford, so I have money left in my cruising kitty........ If I'd lived a more "conventional" life focused on acquiring wealth and assets, I'd be in a better situation. Who wrote the famous lines about how every voyage should be started on a firm foundation of financial insecurity, or something to that effect? ....... The shoe fits.
It's both interesting, and useful to look at alternatives instead of focusing on only one.


H.W.


The quote was from sailor-adventurer-actor, “Sterling Hayden”... who had been the protégée of the great Captain Irving Johnson, of “Yankee” fame. My childhood hero!
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:28   #4073
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Checking into the various CC boats by John Marples, i noticed the following: the CC35 has a payload of 2400 lbs, the CC37 only 2000 lbs, the CC40 2600lbs and the CC44 4000 lbs of payload. My email to John Marples asked why? Here is his response: "The cc37 has a more slender hull form than the 35 and uses a different mold."

Perhaps that also explains the CC40 only having 200 lbs more payload than the CC35, and the CC44 over 50% more payload than the CC40.

jon
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Old 01-12-2017, 20:13   #4074
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

It seems pretty clear to me at least that John Marples was catering to the performance trimaran market, rather than the cruising market. Even the CC35, which clearly lacks standing headroom anywhere except the galley fits that focus.

H.W.


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Checking into the various CC boats by John Marples, i noticed the following: the CC35 has a payload of 2400 lbs, the CC37 only 2000 lbs, the CC40 2600lbs and the CC44 4000 lbs of payload. My email to John Marples asked why? Here is his response: "The cc37 has a more slender hull form than the 35 and uses a different mold."

Perhaps that also explains the CC40 only having 200 lbs more payload than the CC35, and the CC44 over 50% more payload than the CC40.

jon
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:13   #4075
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Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by owly View Post
It seems pretty clear to me at least that John Marples was catering to the performance trimaran market, rather than the cruising market. Even the CC35, which clearly lacks standing headroom anywhere except the galley fits that focus.

H.W.


The John Marples CC boats each have different purposes, with some being higher performance oriented than others. The CC37, titled “fast cruiser”, is a higher performance boat than the CC35, which is not. It is a minimalist “cruiser”.

The CC design concept is toward simpler boats, with fewer parts, fewer wires, fewer cubby’s, fewer hatches, fewer ports, less sharp angles, less surface area, and being simpler to build.

In general, I think that “these” concepts were in mind, more than increased performance, and when interior space as well as storage suffered, that was why, not to make faster boats. (with the exception of the CC boats listed as higher performance).

It was probably expected that if a person wanted the same interior space and accommodation as a Searunner, in a simpler CC boat, that they would just go longer.

Headroom:
No Serunners have standing headroom in the sterncastle, and do not need it. This is for sitting only...

The cockpit can be made into a convertible third cabin, as it is on our boat.

Besides the galley... The CC35 has some small standing headroom space in the front cabin as well, for getting dressed next to the bunks. The vanity area is the only difference, where headroom is lost, to make a more streamlined cabin front.

Having lived for over 12 years on our SR34, with no other home base, I can say that we spent very little time in the front cabin, when not in the bunks. We only brushed our teeth, washed our face, or combed our hair in the vanity, and all three could be done sitting down, as I did when I lived on my SC28, 30 years ago. For “cruising”, I don’t consider the vanity headroom an issue...

For full time liveaboard, I still prefer my SR34 to the CC35, but I would love to have one of the larger CC boats, IF I could afford it!

I can’t... so I consider our SR34 to be perfect as a small liveaboard.

Now that we are part time cruisers, if I had a similarly equipped CC35, with hard dodger, full cockpit enclosure, solar, windlass, etc... I would be quite pleased with the design, and although I love OUR boat’s looks, most would call the CC35 a much more beautiful “sleeker” boat.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:34   #4076
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks guys for enlightening me on the differences between the various CC designs. i notice that the mobile version of the website says different things than the desktop version, at least i think so. On the mobile i notice this "The CC44M is a slightly larger version of the CC40M, but with more carrying capacity....." So what is the difference between the CC44M and the CC44FC, which both have the same carrying capacity altho different displacements?
blessings
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:55   #4077
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
Thanks guys for enlightening me on the differences between the various CC designs. i notice that the mobile version of the website says different things than the desktop version, at least i think so. On the mobile i notice this "The CC44M is a slightly larger version of the CC40M, but with more carrying capacity....." So what is the difference between the CC44M and the CC44FC, which both have the same carrying capacity altho different displacements?

blessings

jon


That is definitely a John Maples question!

If you are even considering building or buying one of his beautiful designs, give him a quick call and ask... (or email).

If it is business hours, I think he prefers a phone call.

He is really busy these days with drawing a custom design for a VERY wealthy client, but this sounds like a quick question.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:36   #4078
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I just got word that Ian Farrier passed away yesterday in San Francisco, on his way home to Australia. A great designer / innovator, the most popular commercial trimaran designs today are based on his work......... These guys are dropping off one at a time.... the end of an era approaches......... the golden age of trimarans.

H.W.
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Old Yesterday, 17:56   #4079
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Don't forget that older boats can be retrofitted with lighter materials. I am in the process of replacing all my floorboards, from plywood and wood, to aluminum box tubing (with lightening, not "lightning", holes, and honeycomb/epoxy skins. By the time I'm all done, I will have saved three hundred pounds. Curiously, equal to the custom refrigeration and freezer system I've installed. And, one day, when the lightweight batteries come into reach, that will save more over the 740 amp hour L16 batteries that currently power my boat. And one day, perhaps electric drives....
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