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Old 05-04-2016, 09:35   #3391
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks its all good.......

I am familiar with the Hughes mod to Chaak. And the Searunners are well proven and well laid out as cruising boats to be sure.

The design is a bit dated. But that is fine. I still love the looks and performance (at sea) of a classic gaff rigged schooner. Talk about dated! So it is all good.

I am just trying to get a feel for how well some of the more classic trimarans perform in light air. And how a boat with a certain Bruce number actually performs based on you guys's experiences. It seems to me that this is the area where a well designed and sailed trimaran will really benefit over and above say a monohull. Frustration levels rise pretty quick with sluggish light air performance.

I have been interested in some of John Marples work for a while now. Had a chance to look over a set of plans for a new CC-40 Fast Cruiser. It is a new design that he has just completed. And it sports a Bruce number of 1.24 or 1.25.....cant remember which. So thats the motivation. Curiosity mostly.

Thanks for the input.

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Old 05-04-2016, 11:27   #3392
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

In watching the video, several incongruities come to light.
~ Initially, when going downwind, as the video opens, he’s in a good 12kts of breeze, minimum, as seen by the prevalence of whitecaps, in otherwise flat water.

~ In the close hauled segments, there’s likely 8-10kts AWS (& more at times). Which is or isn’t “light”, depending on who you talk to.
But to me, in the context of being able to sail in light air, you need to be doing 2/3 of wind speed, down to 5kts - 6kts True Wind (or less). Regardless of heading/AWA.

~ If you pay attention to the boat in this video, she’s;
1) NOT stock. As she has a significant stern extension extension on the main hull (2’-3’+). And which rides well clear of the water when under sail. Thus reducing drag greatly.
2) Her rudder isn’t stock. In height, in it’s attachment point(s), & perhaps in foil shape.
3) She’s EXTREMELY Lightly loaded. As even where the stock transom falls, it’s well clear of the water. And often, the end of the leeward ama is clear of the water also. Which isn’t a normal condition for these vessels by my recollection. Especially when going to windward. And particularly when they have any weight onboard.

~ When going to windward, you’ll note the extremely deep draft in both the mainsail, & the genoa. And the boat is making good speed with such. Plus the sails Never flutter, luff, or have Any air bounced out of them; either by the boat’s motion, or by wave action.
1) You don’t & can’t keep flow attached to sails having deep draft when in light airs (in 6kts+/-, or even in under 10kts AWS at times). Such is an aerodynamic/sail trim, fact.
2) You can’t prevent some luffing, & loss of air flow attachment to the sails in light airs. Due to the boat’s rolling & pitching; even in relatively flat water.
3) You’ll notice also, that the Ensign on the transom is flutter beautifully. Which is kinda’ tough to make happen in light air.

~ In “Light” air, a Searunner won’t tack as easily as Scrimshaw does in the video. As there’s just too much directional stability provided by having 3 hulls in the water. And associated drag from same, vs. the force provided by the sails.
To get Searunners to tack when it’s light, requires a lot more gentle helmsmanship, & a smooth, precision coordination of things.

So that, in this video, we’re seeing a “screened” filming, of a tuned boat, in 7-10kts AWS (& often TWS).
Plus which, we’re viewing a boat which is very lightly loaded (I owned a 31' for 2 years, so I know). And given the fact that she was built by the line’s designer, odds are she has had plenty of small tuning, & lightening modifications done to her; all of which add up.
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Old 05-04-2016, 13:18   #3393
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
In watching the video, several incongruities come to light.
~ Initially, when going downwind, as the video opens, he’s in a good 12kts of breeze, minimum, as seen by the prevalence of whitecaps, in otherwise flat water.

~ In the close hauled segments, there’s likely 8-10kts AWS (& more at times). Which is or isn’t “light”, depending on who you talk to.
But to me, in the context of being able to sail in light air, you need to be doing 2/3 of wind speed, down to 5kts - 6kts True Wind (or less). Regardless of heading/AWA.

~ If you pay attention to the boat in this video, she’s;
1) NOT stock. As she has a significant stern extension extension on the main hull (2’-3’+). And which rides well clear of the water when under sail. Thus reducing drag greatly.
2) Her rudder isn’t stock. In height, in it’s attachment point(s), & perhaps in foil shape.
3) She’s EXTREMELY Lightly loaded. As even where the stock transom falls, it’s well clear of the water. And often, the end of the leeward ama is clear of the water also. Which isn’t a normal condition for these vessels by my recollection. Especially when going to windward. And particularly when they have any weight onboard.

~ When going to windward, you’ll note the extremely deep draft in both the mainsail, & the genoa. And the boat is making good speed with such. Plus the sails Never flutter, luff, or have Any air bounced out of them; either by the boat’s motion, or by wave action.
1) You don’t & can’t keep flow attached to sails having deep draft when in light airs (in 6kts+/-, or even in under 10kts AWS at times). Such is an aerodynamic/sail trim, fact.
2) You can’t prevent some luffing, & loss of air flow attachment to the sails in light airs. Due to the boat’s rolling & pitching; even in relatively flat water.
3) You’ll notice also, that the Ensign on the transom is flutter beautifully. Which is kinda’ tough to make happen in light air.

~ In “Light” air, a Searunner won’t tack as easily as Scrimshaw does in the video. As there’s just too much directional stability provided by having 3 hulls in the water. And associated drag from same, vs. the force provided by the sails.
To get Searunners to tack when it’s light, requires a lot more gentle helmsmanship, & a smooth, precision coordination of things.

So that, in this video, we’re seeing a “screened” filming, of a tuned boat, in 7-10kts AWS (& often TWS).
Plus which, we’re viewing a boat which is very lightly loaded (I owned a 31' for 2 years, so I know). And given the fact that she was built by the line’s designer, odds are she has had plenty of small tuning, & lightening modifications done to her; all of which add up.
I've owned a Sunrunner and was not impressed with her ability to point. May have been me. Great running down wind in 14's. The amas had buoyancy just as shown with a long enough wave period to surf under double reefed main. I cannot understand someone picking apart a good video. It was also a 31 I had. We called the forward berths coffins because you had to slide foot first into them. A sea worthy boat.
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Old 05-04-2016, 15:32   #3394
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners


Ok for all you guys that wonder how good the Searunner is take a look at that
They are brilliant in the tropics, excellent in the shallows, sail as well as you will ever need. Point as his as you want. Maybe thats why they are in the top voted 100 boats by design. I would have to say they are a genious boat but then i havnt got a boat that's worth 10 times more ... but on the water i dont see the difference if anything maybe the Searunner still comes out on top.
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Old 05-04-2016, 18:36   #3395
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Nice vid.............!!!
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Old 08-04-2016, 00:07   #3396
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by w32honu View Post
When you suggest rig changes. What did you have in mind? In order to gain a bit of sail area one would have to add a few feet to the stick. This would add a few more pounds aloft.

Tri's in general generate a lot of stability. Any issues with a few more pounds aloft? Much less sensitive than a mono........maybe?

And by the way what is the Bruce number of a Searunner 37?
---------------------------

I wonder if people have considered the SeaClipper series by John Marples. You can see a bit of basic info on his website. Mine is the SC38 and it is a nicely balanced cruiser and comfortable and secure in heavy weather and will sail with a good turn of speed. The windward float does not touch the water except in very light air. It has a long but shallow keelson and a centre-board.

Mine happens to have a mast that is about 4 or 5 ft taller than what was designed for it - in fact the builder told me that it was the size for the next size up of SeaClipper but that the use of it had been OKd by the designer. Maybe it gives the added speed that some seem to think is lacking in some SeaRunners of the same size, but I do not know that for sure.

Unfortunately, I have not had the time to tweak the sails and rigging to get the best out of her - yet. I am sure she would sail faster than the 12 knots I have experienced.

The SeaClipper is a stylish blend between the SeaRunner and those boats with a more pleasant, curving sheer-line - which is partly why I love it. It has the dated transom similar to the SeaRunner. It has very pronounced bows in the floats which no doubt gives it great buoyancy and so (I assume) reduces the risk of a float submarining and the boat turning over on its leeward bow. The boat has a small aft cabin and the cockpit with engine compartment underneath separate it from the rest of the interior.

I am still surprised that so few people know about the SeaClipper series, and that so few were built. Anyone know why?

Cheers,

Rotten Ricky.
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:12   #3397
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Rotten Ricky please post some pics of your boat.....thanks

Its a different sailing world now with lighter faster mono's.
I think the Seaclipper series look great but the time to build and effort and cost puts many people off... TIME ... now ... just is much less strange as it may seem in 2016 for most people trying to get there finances sorted.
I think the cult of the Searunner still lives thank goodness. Its been a wonder period of time with these boats.
Sailing to the many places around the world has changed somewhat is what i am hearing ... more expensive and more difficult.
Any body got any good ideas with keeping birds off a trimaran?
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:34   #3398
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Rossad,

I am sure your points are valid, but really, a lightweight bouncy mono does not sound like much fun out on the water compared to a fast, stable cruising cat or tri. When the cost of building a Farrier F-9A climbed to $100K for materials alone, I shelved the idea, and although they are a great boat, I don't see a person getting a lot of value as a cruiser, which some of the older designs are better at providing.

I have had mine for about 8 years now. I never liked the multihull style of 'Tupperware-meets-Star Wars" - they might be efficient, but they have lost a lot of anything graceful and stylish yet the SeaClipper retains that and she turns heads and has frequent compliments - in spite of the multi-coloured appearance of her as I rebuild and improve parts of her that require patches of painting everywhere.

For these cold and harsh North West waters she needs a dodger and I will build one that compliments her style and grace. I also have ideas of changing the very dated transom to something more stylish like a sugar-scoop.

I think that some of the older designs, like the SeaClipper and Cross designs, if made with lamination of modern materials and the modified "clamshell" technique that Farrier and others use now, would be excellent cruising boats. And with no rot to sneak in! If only my boat had been built with panels of foam and glass.

Anyone who thinks it is a big advantage in cost and ease of construction to build in plywood is probably forgetting how pervasive the rot problem can be and how very expensive working with epoxy is - and its inherent health hazards. I considered building a multihull from scratch but was scared off by the tales of broken marriages.

You can see several more pics of my boat "Cloud Nine" at the British Columbia Multihull Society website at:

Boat List | BCMS

Haere ra!

Rotten Ricky.
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:44   #3399
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Nice boat!
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Old 22-04-2016, 19:15   #3400
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Today, Earth Day, when we all think about the things we can do to help tread lightly on our desperately warming planet... I also think happy thoughts:

It is our boat's 20th birthday!!! She took 50,000 man/woman hours of labor to build and trick out, over ten years, (7 full time for two people), and then... she was born.

It has been a great 20 years, with tens of thousands of sea miles covered, enjoying hundreds of island anchorages, in dozens of countries, and hopefully, a few more yet.

Being WEST System built with LP Paint, and VERY lovingly maintained, with a perpetually DRY BILGE always... she is in perfect structural shape. Never a spec of rot or de-lam!

Searunner trimarans are truly remarkable designs, and the 34 is considered by most to be: "the best of the best". We consider ourselves very fortunate indeed!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DELPHYS!
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Old 22-04-2016, 19:34   #3401
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Check out my E book: "Anchoring and Mooring the Cruising Multihull", for a good description, with dozens of photos, of our windlass.

I thought about it a LOT, for TEN years, before I started, and this represented several decades of experience as a multihull shipwright. It worked GREAT!!!

The E Book is available from OutRig Media, along with An audio CD with photos about Cruising The Caribbean. OR... the book is available from Amazon.

Anchoring & Mooring The Cruising Multihull (Book) | OutRig Media

Multihull-books-cds-and-more | OutRig Media
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Old 23-04-2016, 02:33   #3402
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Happy birthday Delphys
Your a remarkable Searunner by the sounds of it.
Would be nice to see you on the Ocean one day.
good to have you back Mark
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Old 23-04-2016, 17:13   #3403
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossad View Post
Happy birthday Delphys
Your a remarkable Searunner by the sounds of it.
Would be nice to see you on the Ocean one day.
good to have you back Mark
Thanks so much Ross. The sentiment is appreciated!
Good to see that you long time SR guys are keeping this thread going...
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Old 28-04-2016, 12:34   #3404
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hey if anyone is interested in the prospect of a build.........

I have a complete set of plans for sale for the Marples CC-37 FC. Nice cruising boat with great performance and offshore capability. Winner of the 2005 OSTAR.

This is plan set and sail number 15. Design fee includes the right to build one boat and consultation with the designer during the build. Plans direct from John are $2000.

Asking $1200......

Or offer...........
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Old 29-04-2016, 09:05   #3405
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, downloaded the book from Amazon and found some good info there thanks for taking the time to compile the info. I also just finished changing our SR37 from the old Morse single cable steering to an Edson pedestal and cable system. I feel like I have moved into the 21st century finally.
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