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Old 19-03-2016, 09:19   #3376
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

There are tide height markers on both sides of the bridges, they're reasonably accurate. Be sure to know your exact mast height off the water. FWIW I used the Port Everglades inlet 3 times last month on a 37' catamaran, no issues. The Coast Guard just smiled and waved as they went past.
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Old 25-03-2016, 00:15   #3377
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Two Years in boatyard and will splash next week. Still need to install new dodger, graphics and lettering, and service engine, which has not been started in two years and two months.

Solar panels have batteries powered up and we are reay. Check out our album "NOT YOUR TRADITIONAL SEARUNNER". We will add new shots during the splash on 3-30-16 at 11:08 AM
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Old 27-03-2016, 08:55   #3378
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Looks beautiful Capt.Timbo!!

I will be bringing my 37 to Florida in June, perhaps we can cross courses.
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Old 27-03-2016, 09:06   #3379
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

John,

Deal!! That would be a blast!
(770) 356-2369
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:16   #3380
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

There is so much info on this thread that I think it would be impossible to hi-jack it with some off beat question. Sorry if anyone thinks this an intrusion or if it is off beat with the current trend.......

Any comments about the light air performance of the Searunners (37 and 34)?

Just general info/comments. Boat speed in light air? On and off of the wind? As compared to other multihulls? As compared to the average cruising mono? ...etc

Thanks.
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:05   #3381
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by w32honu View Post
There is so much info on this thread that I think it would be impossible to hi-jack it with some off beat question. Sorry if anyone thinks this an intrusion or if it is off beat with the current trend.......

Any comments about the light air performance of the Searunners (37 and 34)?

Just general info/comments. Boat speed in light air? On and off of the wind? As compared to other multihulls? As compared to the average cruising mono? ...etc

Thanks.
Most fairly "stick" to the water in the really light stuff. And a good part of that is due to their short rigs. As the stock masts are but a few feet longer than the boats. Whereas on low/mid performance monohulls, the mast is 1 1/3x the boat's length. And on high performance mono's, the sticks are higher yet, proportionally.
So, in comparison to more modern multi's, Searunners aren't good light air performers.

The figure generally used to calculate how well setup for light air a multhulli is, is the Bruce Number. In lieu of the SA/DR for mono's.
And it's just the square root of the boat's sail area (in sqft), over the cube roof of her displacement (in pounds). Where, with numbers north of about 1.5 you'll be reefed down a fair bit. And with numbers under 1.3, you'll be fairly lethargic when it's light.
Or at least such is what I recall from Chris White's book The Case For the Cruising Multihull.

Plus, for reasons which I've never understood, Searunners are purpose designed to have the transoms of their main hull & amas, deeply immersed. Which produces a lot of drag. And, of course, they give up a lot of waterline also... along with having short, & under-buoyancy amas IMO. And I won't even get into the whole hull shapes, & foil shapes thing.

Also, one other thing which kills them when it's really light, is that both amas are immersed. Right at the time when you'd want such the least.

Although, even with all of the above, once the wind gets into the high single digits (or more), they sail pretty well. All things considered.
Upwind & downwind, given say 12kts+/- of breeze, they'll keep pace with an ezuivalent length mono (unless heavily laden). And with more wind than that, they're faster (mostly), especially off of the wind. With the exception of sport boats/high performance mono's.
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Old 03-04-2016, 13:20   #3382
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Bruce number at about 1.25 seems to fit more of the cruising side of the equation. Maybe even the sweet spot for a cruising boat. My guess is that with some effort and a small light air sail inventory a trimaran with a BN of 1.25 would perform fairly well in light air.................yes?

Cruising multi to be sure. Much like the Searunner. Or maybe some of John Marples Constant Camber boats.
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Old 03-04-2016, 13:25   #3383
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

My Searunner goes real well in the light air like 6 to 14 knots of wind. Especially when the sea state is either with me or there isnt a short chop wave action against me.
Jim Brown who wrote "the case for the cruising trimaran" Im sure would agree.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:11   #3384
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I'm not trying to take away from Searunners, I'd definitely have another one. But I'd make some changes to her. Hull wise, & rig wise. As so much of cruising takes place in light air. Meaning, in less than 10kts.
But to give some specific examples of their performance:

With my OLD (1983 built) 2-tonnner, which weighed 9.5T, I would pass Searunners as if they were anchored, in anything under 10kts, & pace them in up to 15kts of breeze (on & off the wind). And that was with just me sailing her. With an ancient, dacron main, & my #1 genoa which literally had holes in it.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my Searunner, but they're not light air boats.

As another example, I took my girlfriend for a sail on a 37', with some friends. From San Diego to Mission Bay, & it was blowing from 4-8kts, but we never saw north of 4kts of boat speed. Even with a big genoa up. And only enough gear for the weekend on the boat, including all but 50' of chain, & no windlass.
And I'd given the Searunner in question a good bottom job, starting from bare glass & working my way up. From fairing her, longboarding, to several coats of smooth anti-fouling.
This was back when I was racing, & working on race boats, full time. So I was more than familar with doing such tasks.

Or, in up to 12kts+, my buddy could outrun my 31'er with his Catalina 30'.

In 10kts+ the 31', & the 37 )move okay, but... in the light stuff, there's just too much wetted surface vs. sail area. And in talking to my friends who owned the 37', they said that all of the boats that they'd been on, were like that in the light stuff. And they'd cruised extensively on several of them.

The math don't lie. Nor the other reasons I delineated. So the only way to make'em faster, is to add more sail area... &, or do something like Kurt Hughes did with Chaak. But even then, you have to keep the weight out of them. As anything which drags 3 transoms by design, isn't going to like your immersing things further.

A sprit, & a Code 0 would likely help a good bit, in the single digit wind ranges. Ditto on a kite, downwind. Albeit, Code 0's & their associated hardware ain't cheap.
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Old 04-04-2016, 13:02   #3385
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
I'm not trying to take away from Searunners, I'd definitely have another one. But I'd make some changes to her. Hull wise, & rig wise. As so much of cruising takes place in light air. Meaning, in less than 10kts.
But to give some specific examples of their performance:

With my OLD (1983 built) 2-tonnner, which weighed 9.5T, I would pass Searunners as if they were anchored, in anything under 10kts, & pace them in up to 15kts of breeze (on & off the wind). And that was with just me sailing her. With an ancient, dacron main, & my #1 genoa which literally had holes in it.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my Searunner, but they're not light air boats.

As another example, I took my girlfriend for a sail on a 37', with some friends. From San Diego to Mission Bay, & it was blowing from 4-8kts, but we never saw north of 4kts of boat speed. Even with a big genoa up. And only enough gear for the weekend on the boat, including all but 50' of chain, & no windlass.
And I'd given the Searunner in question a good bottom job, starting from bare glass & working my way up. From fairing her, longboarding, to several coats of smooth anti-fouling.
This was back when I was racing, & working on race boats, full time. So I was more than familar with doing such tasks.

Or, in up to 12kts+, my buddy could outrun my 31'er with his Catalina 30'.

In 10kts+ the 31', & the 37 )move okay, but... in the light stuff, there's just too much wetted surface vs. sail area. And in talking to my friends who owned the 37', they said that all of the boats that they'd been on, were like that in the light stuff. And they'd cruised extensively on several of them.

The math don't lie. Nor the other reasons I delineated. So the only way to make'em faster, is to add more sail area... &, or do something like Kurt Hughes did with Chaak. But even then, you have to keep the weight out of them. As anything which drags 3 transoms by design, isn't going to like your immersing things further.

A sprit, & a Code 0 would likely help a good bit, in the single digit wind ranges. Ditto on a kite, downwind. Albeit, Code 0's & their associated hardware ain't cheap.
Sorry, what?
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Old 04-04-2016, 13:10   #3386
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

When you suggest rig changes. What did you have in mind? In order to gain a bit of sail area one would have to add a few feet to the stick. This would add a few more pounds aloft.

Tri's in general generate a lot of stability. Any issues with a few more pounds aloft? Much less sensitive than a mono........maybe?

And by the way what is the Bruce number of a Searunner 37?
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Old 04-04-2016, 21:23   #3387
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

We just had a race down here and my 37 beat everything other than a f27 and a haynes hunter tramp the winds were never over 5 knots aft of the beam the whole way.I beat a swan 42 ,Jeanneau 51,Cal 39 and a half dozen other cruzing boats.So they aRe not that bad in light winds.The real plus is they are great cruzing boats with that center cockpit.
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Old 05-04-2016, 00:16   #3388
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

w32honu, To answer your Bruce Number question, a 37's is 1.2 when they're empty (as is the case with most of the boats). And if you go to the Outrig Media website, you can find more information on Searunners, including being able to download their construction manual. Which contains a lot of info on the boats, including their specifications. http://outrigmedia.com/outrig/
Plus, here's a little bit of info on what Kurt did to modify Chaak, which was originally a 40'er Kurt Hughes Multihull Design - Catamarans and Trimarans for Cruising and Charter - Chaak 45 Trimaran

One nice perk to Searunners, is their directional stability. As, once, when I was delivering a 37' from SF to San Diego, we got a nice "push" from behind. Starting about 60% of the way down the coast. In the form of winds from 20kts - 25kts on the stern. And with just a genoa, & a reefed main, we never saw less than 11kts. During which, we probably averaged close to 12kts, for the last 1/3 of the trip.

All of it with a small, wheel mounted autopilot helming the whole time. Though there was always a crewman in the cockpit, ready to take over, if things got to be a bit much for it.
But the AP steered quite well through it all, including while we were surfing down the faces of 12' -15' waves, sometimes hitting the mid teens.
Something which for some monohulls of the same size, would have been a bit less controlled. Although, by no means a huge feat. Just a bit less comfortable is all.

Regarding adding mast height, yep, it adds weight aloft. Though such mod's are commonly done. But the bigger concern is what a larger spar does in terms of vertical compression loads, & loads on the shrouds, chainplates, & other supporting structure. And in higher winds, what it may or may not do the the crossbeams which connect the amas. If, that is, you fly a lot more sail when it's really blowing, which most of us wouldn't.
For working out those sorts of things, it's wisest to consult the designer, or a good Naval Architect. To ensure that the boat is up for handling such loads.


PS: Gentlemen, my apoligies if we went too far OT. w32honu asked a question about the boats, & I fielded it as best I was able, based on my experiences.
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Old 05-04-2016, 03:01   #3389
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Well anybody out there that wants to see how a Searunner goes in light airs take a look at this and make your own mind up.


Searunners where never designed to be racers but instead cruisers and that's what makes them so appealing.
To date they have a safety record second to nothing else on our oceans.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:32   #3390
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

What's an "OLD"?
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