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Old 10-07-2015, 08:11   #3181
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Here's a couple pics and a link. These folks make a terrific product, and they responded immediately with a phone call and quotes. Custom Dodgers Built by Iverson's Designs. I could see something like this working on my boat. The windshield is a polycarbonate (which needs protection, when not in use) that is very clear and durable. The enclosure sides use a vinyl, that will survive being removed and rolled up for storage when not in active use. Look at the lower corners of the dodger, it's built like the clew of a genoa. Nice details, and nice stainless work. Their quotes provide for all of these details. Somewhat expensive, but the quality is unusually fine. You can even have the stitching made with PTFE thread for not too much more.
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:55   #3182
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Good news on the furler Jimske, I know you'll love it.

Our hard dodger with a removable roof really works great in the wet stuff, the windshield alone taking out the wind blast adds peace to the ride.

I was able to get some spring maintenance done, mostly filling in the dings and getting on a quick coat of latex. I did rig the center mainsheet and vang/preventer to the amas system I described a couple pages ago. I like it, jibing in moderate wind is simply a matter of pulling the boom across with the vang and leaving the mainsheet alone. I found a single cleat put near the mainsheet was all I needed. On my boat the continous line runs near the secondaries but I don't think I'll need them if I set the vang then use the mainsheet tackle for the twist remove power.

This year land chores trump sailing but I'll try for a fall cruise and try to sneak in some weekends. I've got a new motor mount/sled project under way on land in my few off minutes but I'm not sure it'll get on the boat this year.
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Old 10-07-2015, 16:50   #3183
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Good news on the furler Jimske, I know you'll love it.

Our hard dodger with a removable roof really works great in the wet stuff, the windshield alone taking out the wind blast adds peace to the ride.

I was able to get some spring maintenance done, mostly filling in the dings and getting on a quick coat of latex. I did rig the center mainsheet and vang/preventer to the amas system I described a couple pages ago. I like it, jibing in moderate wind is simply a matter of pulling the boom across with the vang and leaving the mainsheet alone. I found a single cleat put near the mainsheet was all I needed. On my boat the continous line runs near the secondaries but I don't think I'll need them if I set the vang then use the mainsheet tackle for the twist remove power.

This year land chores trump sailing but I'll try for a fall cruise and try to sneak in some weekends. I've got a new motor mount/sled project under way on land in my few off minutes but I'm not sure it'll get on the boat this year.
I do like the sled. I've seen a few with the stern mount outboard but hauling the motor with the winch from the cockpit a plus.

Question: forestay tension with new roller furling? My sail is now cut and I will install tomorrow. I generally keep standing rigging at 500# which , according to the Loose Tension gauge is at 15% breaking strength. But now with the weight of the furler it seems a little saggy. Am thinking about bringing it up to 25% on the gauge. Anybody know what optimum strength is appropriate? Should I ask John or Jim?
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:05   #3184
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I would ask a local rigger, first. Headstay sag is a common feature of Searunners - to a point. You could possibly overtighten, but that wouldn't cause a problem for the stainless, it's the potential damage to the chainplate and the stem if the boat isn't up to it. The forty is pretty stiff, especially if it is built with epoxy. Some of the older, resorcinal-glue boats were limited in the amount of abuse you could subject them to. Remember, the headstay chainplate is bolted onto the plywood stem, which is sandwiched between the sheets of plywood at the bow. It's not like the more robust keel one finds in traditional boats that are loaded. I believe the construction manual details this.
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:19   #3185
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Yeah good idea. I'll check the plans also. It's epoxy and glass plus I have a steel plate embedded in the bow that the chain plate goes through. The whole thing goes down and attaches to what I guess could be called the keel so it looks pretty robust.

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Old 10-07-2015, 17:20   #3186
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Maybe I'll take a picture of it tomorrow

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Old 10-07-2015, 17:46   #3187
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Jimske, what you are referring to as a keel is actually a curved length of plywood, on edge, that connects from the pointy end of the bow, back to, I recall, frame 2. Its stiffness depends on the interplay of the deck, the frames, the hull sides and the stem to spread the loads out over a larger area. It's a clever construction method that keeps the weight down. The bottom plank (actually, two, sandwiched together) also performs as a sort of keel, and the minikeel additionally stiffens things up. Over time, with non-epoxy boats, things loosen with bashing into waves, tightening and loosening of the headstay, and eventually the boat might not have the stiffness it enjoyed in its earlier days. I suppose there is a moral to this, but it might have something associated with Viagra rather than epoxy. The older, less robustly built Searunners eventually tire and expire, and we see them no more out there.
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:51   #3188
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

That's right exactly how it is. I can't adjust my forestay. I gotta tighten the back stay change the tension

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Old 10-07-2015, 17:55   #3189
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Headstay sag on a straight spreader masthead rig comes from a loose backstay. The tensions on the shrouds is semi irrelevant, but I guess it keeps people buying Loos gauges. As long as you don't have too much slack leeward when sailing upwind 500 lbs on a 31 should be fine.


You probably have much less on tour backstay, try getting it as tight as you can say holding the swage with a 6" wrench and a say 1/4" slot screwdriver. It would be basically impossible to overtighten with these tools.


If you are this tight at the dock and still see lots of sag, something is moving in the boat. The path of least resistance on any rig is to push the mast down into the step before it starts to bend the boat and on a Searunner would for sure be the first place to check.
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Old 10-07-2015, 18:17   #3190
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The buried Searunner stem actually scares me, check it well. When I was cutting my 31 up that whole nose fairing over the headstay fitting came off in my hand when I wiggled it. The stem had rotted to the point I didn't need to unbolt the fitting, just yank it. On the Nicol I'm set up firm rather than tight and use a backstay adjuster on the backstay bridle to reduce headstay sag as it breezes up. This lets me have a fuller shape in light air.
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Old 10-07-2015, 22:50   #3191
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sorry, guys. Those of us who have been playing with Searunners might have some knowledge of them that you haven't learned yet. Jimske, best you should take counsel from John Marples and Jim Brown. For Boatguy, true, if there were an issue with the centerboard trunk, upon which the mast steps, your comments might hold more weight, but there has been no comment regarding issues of mast support. And, your comment, so confident, regarding backstay tension as the clue to all, shows certain limits to your experience. It's often better to show a certain humility before making pronouncements. It will help your credibility. And Cavalier, just to help you understand Searunners a bit more, the stem is hardly buried. It's right out there, available for sounding should there be the slightest hint of rot. Jimske, find a rigger you trust and rely on someone who actually is looking at your boat.
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Old 10-07-2015, 23:17   #3192
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sorry to confuse you Roy, I didn't say that well. The method of attaching the headstay fitting is what bothers me as it is all buried under that glass and leak weakened wood is well camoflaged. A guy named Jim Brown told me what to check in surveys. I've been around Searunners for quite a while too.

As an self proclaimed expert though, I think you'll actually need to sail yours rather than just work on it to have credibility. Last year you mentioned you'd sailed yours about 5 thousand miles since building it, an amount we cover in just a few years. You'll have a far better understanding of what works when you actually get out there. I'm reminded of the character in Cannery Row who lives on a boat he is building but tears the inside out to rebuild whenever he gets close to launching. Its all fun but actually using the things is more well rounded.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:35   #3193
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Headstay sag on a straight spreader masthead rig comes from a loose backstay. The tensions on the shrouds is semi irrelevant, but I guess it keeps people buying Loos gauges. As long as you don't have too much slack leeward when sailing upwind 500 lbs on a 31 should be fine.


You probably have much less on tour backstay, try getting it as tight as you can say holding the swage with a 6" wrench and a say 1/4" slot screwdriver. It would be basically impossible to overtighten with these tools.


If you are this tight at the dock and still see lots of sag, something is moving in the boat. The path of least resistance on any rig is to push the mast down into the step before it starts to bend the boat and on a Searunner would for sure be the first place to check.
No nothing moving really. Just thought the added weight might require a little more tension.

I know a lot of guys object to the loos tension gauge. I suppose it's not necessary but I like having it. Anyway the inventor, the late Don Jordan, was a friend of mine and he gave it to me so I didn't have to buy.

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Old 11-07-2015, 08:57   #3194
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

If nothing moved and the tension is where it was it is just the weight of the furler. Jim would have you yank the stemhead fitting using the stay from all directions and watch for movement. Marples later came out with a survey video you can get on outrig.org that covers everything too. The thicker size makes it easier to see the curve also. I'd keep the tension where you've had it and add an adjuster to tension it more as the wind builds. For now a few more pounds shouldn't hurt.

The model of aduster doesn't really matter, what does is setting things consistently. Older foam and ply trimarans are always going to deflect more than a heavy glass cruiser, for the structures sake they shouldn't be overtightened. Up here someone overtuned a glass Cross, it is now, as they say, a banana.

Sorry I sounded grumpy Roy. I'd edit my last post if I could. Keeping the boats commissioned with short periods of downtime means not being able to do every cosmetic detail at once. It must be nice to do it all in one go. For me it is something the boat slowly evolves towards as time is available. Next on my list are nylon strips for the coaming where the vang/preventer touches on its way to the cleat and eye splicing the boom ends of the continous line now that I know I like the system.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:50   #3195
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Just an update on my head stay I guess it was much ado about nothing. I put the Jenny on the furling and it seems fine at the 500 pounds.

But I'm glad to have this conversation because I took the time to peek into the forward compartment where the head stay is attached and took some photos. Doesn't seem to be any problems.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
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