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Old 13-12-2008, 18:30   #301
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Jack,

You are making me envious! All that pin-striping on the spreaders! Did you do the topsides too, so the osprey could see it?

Awesome work! Keep it up.

Burden Sales has a Perkins 13.7 2 cylinder diesel sans tranny and bell housing for $599. I am looking to see where one can find the bell housing and tranny. So far the tranny alone is more than the engine!

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Old 18-12-2008, 12:24   #302
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Steering cables

Roym, there is a guy who wants to know about using synthetics for steering cable

Any Updates on Synthetic Rigging ?


Maybe you can chime in
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Old 20-12-2008, 13:37   #303
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Alright, I'm hooked. Is there a site online where a guy can look at different layouts of trimarans? I understand that most of them are configured to the owners desire and there is a lot of variance in this area.

I'm interested in either a Brown/Marples, or a Piver design. I like the cult following that the Searunners have. The Pivers on the other hand seem to have more room with wing berths (not sure if this is the correct term or not). Are there any Tri's out there with two wing berths, a forward berth, and an aft berth for a grand total of four berths? Does anybody know of any tri's out there with this configuration?

I would think that a Searunner would be easy to custom engineer this way if you could get the wing berths in there.
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Old 20-12-2008, 13:58   #304
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Marples Constant Camber design is light years more advanced than Piver's. For that matter the Searunner is a major leap forward form Piver. I believe that the larger Searunner's or Constant Camber's (40 - 44) have 4 double wing bunks. I think a full wing bunk is not so good in a seaway - a lot of pounding. Searunners and CCs have only a partial wing extension.
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Old 20-12-2008, 14:56   #305
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I believe that the larger Searunner's or Constant Camber's (40 - 44) have 4 double wing bunks.
Randy, I know you're right for the 40 and 44CC.

ProjectFiji, I think all the Searunners have the head at the ... head
Considering the fineness of the hulls, that seems to work really well. I spent a several hours mentally walking through the plans (Why this and not that? What if that were here?) and what struck me is just how well thought out the design is.

That said, you should look at other designers' work. Chris White and Kurt Hughes come to mind. There are lots of older designs, too such as the Piver and Kantola. Lots of the Piver designs can be had for the price of printing from the Special Collection Library in the Mariners' Museum in Newport News. But I also think a really good place to start is with the online brokers and on E-bay. Nobody wants to show you their boat as much as someone who is either really proud of it or is looking to sell it.

You definitly will want to carefully check out the Rikki-tikki-tavi, a 40CC

As for most of the boats being built to the owners desire, that is because most are built (or modified by the new) owners.
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Old 20-12-2008, 16:46   #306
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ProjectFiji. If you have not read "case for the cruising trimaran" I would encourage you to spend the $ and get it. It is out of print, and has been for a while. look here:

Amazon.com: Case for the Cruising Trimaran: Jim Brown: Books

Jim spends one whole chapter desribing the Searunner and why and why not of the design. He compares the alternatives and how you have to have a whole balanced machine. Not built or designed to any marketing surveys. and used by both Brown and Marples in a big way.

Maren, if you have not seen the book, it will blow you away!

I know the 37' and 40' Searunners can have 4 double berths. My previous 37' did.

The CC 40 and 44 are similar to the 37 and 40 searunner. The have narrower hulls and so the space is similar to the old plywoodies...:-)

Anyhow, dig all you can, it a bit of a subculture, but a stong following just the same.

See if I can copy and paste this:

A trimaran I know and love:
the Brown Searunner 37

By Charles E. Kanter
I write little about cruising trimarans because there are so few of them, especially on the U.S. East Coast. If you have plans to travel in areas in which the size ­ especially the beam of your cruising vessel ­ will not be a handicap, then consider a trimaran. Each boat is different, and each trimaran has its own characteristics, but the Jim Brown-designed trimarans hold a special place for me.
I have surveyed four Jim Brown Searunner 37s and sailed aboard others. I can't help but marvel at the superior ergonomic layout of this vessel and its extraordinary seakeeping ability. In my opinion, it is the finest layout for ocean voyaging I have yet seen.
The center cockpit, which in this execution is more like a command post, leaves the helmsman within reaching distance of everyone and almost every operating system on board. An incredible layout at sea. All the necessary requirements for vessel operation are right there in the cockpit.
The helm station is just behind the mast, leaving all sheets and halyards where you can handle them without a lot of heroics or complex turning block systems. The
centerboard is right there, and reefing takes place in the cockpit by nature.

Visibility is excellent. The cockpit deck is raised considerably in order to create a large engine room below it. You can see all six corners of the vessel from the helm station. Crew contact is also excellent. Berths are just forward of the central cockpit and the saloon, or great cabin as Jim Brown prefers to name it, is just aft of the cockpit.
The galley is at the entrance to the cabin. Thus the people cooking, eating, laughing, or talking are a full cockpit length away from those sleeping, yet in full view and contact with the helm.
Weight distribution is excellent. The centerboard trunk splits the central space under the cockpit sole, and the resulting structural member forms a solid base for the mast. The raised cockpit sole integrates into a major structural component and forms two large volume compartments exactly where the weight should be. With the engine installed on one side of the center board trunk and the water tank, fuel tank and batteries on the other side, you have what is termed natural ballast. This allows unfettered hull shape design optimization unlike many twin screw catamarans, which need extra buoyancy aft to handle the weight of engines, etc.
On the other hand, for just plain cruising or living aboard, this arrangement has a few drawbacks. First, putting the cockpit in the center means it is more time consuming and difficult to load and unload your dinghy with provisions. It means that you must go through the cockpit to get from the forward berths and navigation station, and in some cases the galley, to get to the main saloon ­ essentially going outside to get back inside. This is the classic objection to most center cockpit cruising boats.
Even though the engine and batteries are strategically located for weight distribution, there is poor access to the mechanics. The centerboard splits the area, and the beam at the waterline is fairly narrow. The cockpit sole being the top of the compartment and the horizontal support member for the centerboard trunk mitigates against having access hatches on top of the engine. The mirror image compartment that houses the batteries is more easily accessed but still requires removal of floorboards and stairways.
For ocean crossing the cutter rig is renowned. For inshore work, the inner jibstay is a headache when tacking. The center cockpit arrangement also creates a problem arranging a Bimini top without raising the boom to excessive heights, which cancels out some of the advantages of being in the cockpit.
The original design featured a double chine. Construction was out of plywood sheathed in glass. This is a time-proven method of construction, but because of the myriad of small pieces, there are intricate details and lots of little corners to collect dust and trap water, creating an above average need for maintenance vigilance.
The design has solid wing decks. To me, this is a distinct advantage as it gives enormous deck area and eliminates expensive and high maintenance trampolines. It also stops the spray, which is the particular trimaran vice of having the windward hull turn the tops of waves into spray that shoots back into the cockpit.
Trimaran bunks on the bridgedeck always have limited headroom. They are sometimes so claustrophobic you cannot roll over without banging your hips. Normal human activity usually associated with beds is severely restricted.
Like a monohull, having the head forward means walking through the boat past the bunks, a compromise endemic to narrow beam monohull boats.
Years ago, wide beam was the kiss of death for the technology. However, it is becoming less and less of a problem as other boats are expanding their beams, thus coming ever closer to the trimaran beam. At 22 feet 6 inches, the Searunner 37 is not as wide as some modern catamarans in the size range. Also, I have hauled out a Searunner 37 in an ordinary travel lift without a problem.

Brown Searunner 37 Trimaran
1
2
3
4
5
Motoring X Docking X Backing X Sailing X Windward ability X Ease of tracking X Tracking X Visibility from the helm XSeakindly/ride X Convenient deck layout X Interior layout XAdequate storage areas X 1 - Poor 2 - Fair 3 - Average 4 - Good 5 - Exceptional

Length overall
37'4"
Maximum beam
22'3"
Sail area
681 Sq. Ft.
Draft:
37"/6'4"
Displacement
11,000 (Max incl. load)

Classification and/or design intent: Blue water; Facilities/layout Summary: Eight bunks; Galley and Saloon in stern; cabin Visibility from interior better than most trimarans; Adequate rub rails (life lines optional); Cutter rig with running backstays; Fair storage not including amas (which should not be used for heavy items).

Copyright 1998, 1999, 2000 Southwinds Media. All rights reserved.
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Old 21-12-2008, 10:57   #307
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Oh man, the rikki tikki tavi build looks awesome. Simply incredible. Are there any more blogs out there with trimaran builds? I love the Brown/Marples designs and think that a Searunner 37 would be about perfect. The only problem that I have is that I cannot move anything wider than 16' down our roadways to get the boat from the potential build location. From looking at the CC beams, it does not appear that there is any way to do a "modular" construction build where we could fasten the beams once at the launch site.

I looked at the Hughes, White, and Farrier designs, but don't see anything there that would convince me to do one of their boats versus the Brown/Marples designs.

Of course, all of this is just a pipe dream, but man, what a way to go. Even if it takes 15 years to build. I think my summer goal is going to be finding a project trimaran already built. I've found a couple in the 10-15k range on different craigslists, so maybe I'll back into a real bargin for even less.
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Old 21-12-2008, 16:30   #308
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Originally Posted by projectfiji View Post
Oh man, the rikki tikki tavi build looks awesome. Simply incredible. Are there any more blogs out there with trimaran builds?
Yes, search for trimaran blogs. There is a thread where I give four. Wait. I'll do it; here it is. You get to do the searches from now on.

Quote:
I love the Brown/Marples designs and think that a Searunner 37 would be about perfect. The only problem that I have is that I cannot move anything wider than 16' down our roadways to get the boat from the potential build location.
I understand that better than you would imagine. Trust me.

Quote:
From looking at the CC beams, it does not appear that there is any way to do a "modular" construction build where we could fasten the beams once at the launch site
Actually, there is but it take quite a bit of work. The 31 doesn't have that problem. Are you sure you need a 40'+ tri? Remember, most designers have had smaller models of their boats. Jim Brown had a 31. I think Kurt Hughes has a 27.

Quote:
I looked at the Hughes, White, and Farrier designs, but don't see anything there that would convince me to do one of their boats versus the Brown/Marples designs.
In large part its a personal decision. But they are all good designs.

Quote:
Of course, all of this is just a pipe dream, but man, what a way to go. Even if it takes 15 years to build. I think my summer goal is going to be finding a project trimaran already built. I've found a couple in the 10-15k range on different craigslists, so maybe I'll back into a real bargin for even less.
Getting one and repairing it is definitely the way to go. A lot of times the parts are worth as much or more than the boat which is in good condition. But you should be prepared to spend quite a bit more than 15k$. Remember you have the survey, purchase price, repairs, maintenance and upgrades. If you keep the boat in good or better condition, it will hold the its value. Its like renting a flat but with a HUGE security deposit.

It's not an investment, it's a luxury... or an obsession. Sometimes it's that too.
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Old 21-12-2008, 17:19   #309
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Actually, there is but it take quite a bit of work. The 31 doesn't have that problem. Are you sure you need a 40'+ tri? Remember, most designers have had smaller models of their boats. Jim Brown had a 31. I think Kurt Hughes has a 27.
I think I could make a 31' work, but it would need wing berths. The only thing that I don't like about the Marples website is the lack of floorplan/interior drawings or dimensions given. That and a rough materials list would be a great help. I may try to email the SGT. Lewis builder and see if he has a materials list of what he actually used.

I'm guessing the 31'er uses a different method of connecting the amas to the beams in order to make it capable of building inland, trucking to the water, and then fastening together?
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Old 21-12-2008, 18:31   #310
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The trouble with a lot of berths is that they get filled by a lot of folks, leading to a crowded sterncastle, ALL of the time, a crowded cockpit much of the time, and very little quiet time. A "roomeran", as Jim Brown called them, is like a ghetto. Don't go there.
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Old 22-12-2008, 11:30   #311
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I think I could make a 31' work, but it would need wing berths. The only thing that I don't like about the Marples website is the lack of floorplan/interior drawings or dimensions given. That and a rough materials list would be a great help. I may try to email the SGT. Lewis builder and see if he has a materials list of what he actually used.

I'm guessing the 31'er uses a different method of connecting the amas to the beams in order to make it capable of building inland, trucking to the water, and then fastening together?

You might not like this.

Something to keep in mind is that a good designer tends to think through things a lot more carefully than you might think. There will still be room for improvement, of course. But give these guys some credit. As for the wing berths try getting ahold of as many different photos of various sized Searunners as you might reasonably work with. If a 31 might work, look at the 34 too. Also, you need to figure out needs vs wants. Roy made an excellent point and you listen to his advice carefully, especially about Searunners. He built his own, he's lived on it for years, he actively works in the industry. There isn't a whole lot more you could want. He is not just the voice of experience but the voice of wide experience. I would listen to JMolan, Rann and Steve Rust (when he returns -- I hope) too.

I fully respect your desire to build your own boat; I strongly suggest you think long and hard about it first. Home built boats tend to have lower values. In large part this is because you aren't registered as a business, but in equal measure it's because you are lumped in with every other homebuilder out there. Now, you may think this will be your home long term or your retirement place and that you will never sell. Fine. but consider if you would rather be building or sailing? [side note: google Barefoot and aft mast trimaran -- read through that blog too.]

If you are possessed to build something beautiful and are willing to put in HOWEVER much time it takes to accomplish that one goal, there you go. If not, use the low resale value to your advantage, buy a used boat in good condition, and go from there. This is true for all boats.

--------

JMolan -- I skimmed through it and the Searunner Construction Manual and thought there were ok. I suspect I would appreciate them more if I had read through them fully but I was trisecting a tri. The preponderance of 'oh god' cartoons frankly bewildered me. Then again, that seems pretty easy. I think might have to do with my parent being hippies in 50's

Actually, I had a plan that I may revive. It was to contact Jim Brown and ask for his permission to reissue the two books as a pair on a site like lulu. He could use the proceeds for his own use or to help fund the Special Collections at the Mariners Museum. And, if he wished, add a new forward. I could scan the materials and typeset. It might still happen but need to get back to the states first and contact him.
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Old 22-12-2008, 12:26   #312
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Brown 31

projectfiji,

I had a 31 that had aluminum trusses made of approx 2X2 square tubing. They bolted to the amas and hull, with large backing plates. It would have been transportable.

I strongely suggest you listen to maren as it relates to building your own boat. Been there done that.

On the other hand, just the satisfaction of doing it counts for something?
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Old 22-12-2008, 12:54   #313
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Have you actually talked to a good boat mover? Some of them can manage to get a boat around or by some difficult transport issues.

When I look at the build versus buy issue with tris, it does go back to the quality issue. There's just a huge range, so you'd have to closely examine each prospect and even sail them. The best I'd be willing to sail virtually anywhere. A week or so ago ther was guy writing in this forum about a '31 Searunner that wouldn't point well and he was thinking it was just himself (I was thinking it was more likely something wrong with the individual boat - hull shape or rig).

Where do you live? I've been to a boatyard recently in the Bay area (Napa) where there were 4 or 5 Searunner's in various states of disrepair and appeared to be not in any state of rebuild. Wouldn't be surprised if an owner could be talked into getting rid of it, if that seems to be a viable option.
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Old 22-12-2008, 13:22   #314
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Randy,

Thanks someone read that, other the true and blue Brown/ Marples fans who I pissed off. May have been the cutter rig? I still liked the sloop rigged Piver. Also like the wing decks, berths and the fact that the stays ran the chain plates on the amas not the main hull. For what little it is worth.
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Old 22-12-2008, 14:10   #315
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Have you actually talked to a good boat mover? Some of them can manage to get a boat around or by some difficult transport issues.

Where do you live? I've been to a boatyard recently in the Bay area (Napa) where there were 4 or 5 Searunner's in various states of disrepair and appeared to be not in any state of rebuild. Wouldn't be surprised if an owner could be talked into getting rid of it, if that seems to be a viable option.
A 31 doesn't appear to be much of a problem. The TimeMachine shows it being done. As for the Searunner and other wood/epoxy boats, there is a maximum height and width. Height is 13"0' ; width is 13'6 if I recall. This means you can't move it whole; you have to trisect your tri.

Honestly taking it apart takes about a day, including for a great deal of ^%&*kin# off, speaking with some very experienced and charming boat builders and several runs to the hardware shop. Putting it back together ... I don't know but my estimates tend to be pretty good and I think about three days if you had a helper for part of it. Namely lining everything back up.

That said, I strongly recommend you do NOT do this. It isn't the cutting of the boat, it's the boat movers. The days when truckers were the knights of the highway are utterly gone. So you can expect the process to be fraught with tricks, lies and contract law. I feel so strongly about it, I would sell you the boat I just bought in order to save you from it... (not that I'm offering). Oh and the cost for a coast to coast move, how does 17k plus crane fees sound? If you are looking to save on a boat, this is not the way to do it.

Again, I would check out Ebay and the brokers. And here is a tip: look at the expired listings.

OK, one last thing. If you are truly hell bent on moving a boat, I can recommend a good boat mover in addition to one you need to avoid like the black plague (complete with transcripts so vitriolic you wonder how he ever has managed to say in business).

Remember ... Florida ... the promised land of boats .... Floridia ... Florida
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