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Old 04-04-2015, 10:03   #3061
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

SYNTHETICS:
Drew... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You guys that have read my old posts might think: "give it a rest already", and rightfully so. Thing is, during seasons like right now, where we will have > than a 40 degree F. temperature differential in ONE day, (like today), I am made acutely aware of it when I step onto the ama from the dock, and brace myself with the running backstay. In the afternoon it is "tight", and in the morning it is sloppy loose. I wouldn't want that on MY standing rig, which is sailed as a sloop so needs the uppers tight and lowers loose, but always properly "in tune" with each other.

There are many other applications that are great for the stuff as I have pointed out, but not the standing rigging on a Searunner, imo...

About weight... When synthetic rigging proponents tout "1/5th the weight", it is actually not as dramatic as it sounds in the big picture. IF hypothetically, the ss wire was 50#s, and being generous... similar rigging synthetic was <10#s, you have saved 40#s, right? (You definitely still need metal turnbuckles to keep it easily adjustable, btw).
Well, on a fully tricked out ss rigged cruising boat's mast, with mast head clutter, lights, RADAR, roller furling headstay, etc... you might be looking at a 400# rig or > 500#s with sails up, which is when it matters! Take away that 40# savings from using synthetic rigging, and that 500#s drops to 460#s. It IS a weight savings, but less dramatic when you look at it this way.

You could save as much or more weight aloft with high tech mylar sails AND use of high tech synthetics for halyards. (I have 6mm T-900 as a headsail halyard and as a topping lift right now).

IF one had a racing boat and LOTS of money, then doing the above but WITH a carbon fiber mast AND synthetic rigging as well, (THESE two materials ARE compatible), AND if they skip ALL of the mast clutter, it could in fact cut the weight of the entire rig in half or more! It also would not be a cruising boat at all.


Roy... Using small synthetic line as an anchor rode on your dink sounds like a good if not expensive application for the synthetic. Of course if you can then rationalize getting a 600' spool, or go in with someone to buy a spool, the price comes WAY down.
I would still use a 20' length of 3/16" chain for cantenary, as I sometimes dive in a 2-3' chop!

On the dink's 25' painter, we like 3/8" StaSet as it ties/cleats and handles well, and we can pull it up the beach, together. IF it is a tide vs wind anchorage, we hoist the dink along side, but if not, we trail it with a 3' long section of bunji in the painter, to make it where there is no longer a jerk, jerk, jerk, with the rise of every wave.

IF I use 1/4" synthetic on my new lifelines, I may still use 1/8 but 1X19 uncoated ss wire for the aft connection and gate. This stuff coils up so easily and neatly when we frequently leave the gates open (like at anchor), and would flop around less this way than unsecured synthetic gates would. Of course, you can make an effort to secure them, and as you know... they do now have really nice splice only pelican hooks, just for synthetics.
I have not yet done a "Brummel splice", is it hard to learn?

DIFFERENT STROKES:
Roy, you have always found VERY clever solutions to these things... that apply to you, your cruising grounds, boatbuilding skill, finances, age, condition, (single handed status), and size of boat. This is as we ALL should do, and one person's perfect solution may not be perfect for another. I REALLY admire your work!

Those who have read my anchoring book as you have, know how I agonized for years with the prospect of putting a windlass on our 34' trimaran, and then agonized more about how to do it (once it became necessary), without ruining the performance or seakindlyness of our boat. There are so many options...

WINDLASS FOOT SWITCHES:
R2D2 sounds like a trip! You can get foot switches btw, that allow you to flip the safety cover up for pushing with your toe, or flip them down to make it impossible, (except through the center of the lid, with your finger only). My switches are quite safe in this respect, and are sold by my windlass's catalog, "Quick".

You are right to be concerned about windlass safety on the bow, especially if you are alone up there. REMEMBER THE LATE/GREAT ALLAN COLLAS! For you younger guys... He was one of the greats back in the day, and stupidly got his foot stuck in a coil of chain as it paid out really fast! They were just able to save his foot, but the pain followed him for years. He was later lost at sea while single handing, and it was assumed to be indirectly related to this injury. We all have to be so careful!

ABOUT KELP:
We have found that when motorsailing in our common east coast Sargassum weed, the folding prop would become fouled on a regular basis, (although less prone than other types of props). The boat would just go very incrementally slower. Now, when this happens, we slow down to 1 knt, hit reverse, and then FULL throttle for about 5 seconds. Then with the boat now stopped, we would see a "Rasta wig" of weed go floating past the bow. These momentary stops were a small price to pay for 2 extra knots of speed. I think that this would apply to your kelp as well, IF it has been a problem.

VINYL DIP:
This "Sunrise" dip is great stuff alright. Below is a NER MegaBraid II, 12 strand rope to chain splice that I finished yesterday. It got multicoated up top and two coats on the bottom 75% of the splice. The stuff is very thin, so soaks in deep. It does stiffen it up just a bit, but not so it is an issue. It remains flexible for the life of the rope, adds a safety to the splice, and mainly... it prevents chafe as well as keeps ALL sand out of the chain link and splice interior.
I use this stuff every few years on my vent hole mesh nets, forward nets, splices, whippings, and 1/8" polyester lashings. I recommend the practice!

You would have to ask Sunrise if they have this stuff in white as well, but I suspect that they do. Black, of course, is opaque, where white "anything" (paint/primer, rope, canvass, epoxy, etc), is not. White is translucent, letting maybe 50% of the UVs through. For multicoating, a day apart, you could go on with black, followed by 3 more coats of white. Once you have a black base coat, ALL future coatings could be white. Then you get the black's sun coverage, with a white color on top, if that is what you want, like on splices.

SPLICE COATING ADDITIONAL TOUCHES:
FIRST... Use a winch or the like to pull your finished splice VERY tight to set the splice, and leave it pulled tight for coating over the required 2 or 3 days. IF you whip the throat of the splice as well like I do, do not use commercial "waxed" twine. Use un coated 1/16" woven (not twisted), Nylon or Dacron. This way, IT will soak up the vinyl dip too.

Mark
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:38   #3062
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, as usual, thanks for some really good stuff. This thread is consistenly the most productive one I've experienced on CF over the years.

I, too, will be using a short length of chain for the dink rode. I'm considering the 600 foot spool because I will need a bunch for my lifelines, and I'll need some for other projects. The leftover will be a handy thing in my spares locker.

The Brummel splice is super-easy. Here's a video:

When I'm done, I fit the eye portion over the horn of a cleat, then wrap the running part around a winch, tension it up tightly, and leave it in tension for a few minutes.

I'm repainting the pulpit-mounted windlass control (which I mistakenly called R2D2- it's more like C3PO) and replacing all of the electrics. The UV has not been kind to the rubber and plastic over the years. Anyway, it would be a waste of time not to replace them after such an extensive overhaul. When it's done and assembled and reinstalled I will send pics. So many details to complete first.

We handle kelp underway just as you do. Thank goodness for the folding prop. When taking a shortcut across Point Loma's kelp beds (something the "leaners" are unable to do), I pop up the centerboard from time to time to shed the strands. It's a good way to clean the slime off the bottom as well. Some of the race boats have installed little sliding razor knives in the leading edges of their rudder skegs. When they catch a resistant strand, they raise and lower the kelp cutter blade to clear the obstruction, Kelp doesn't stay long on my skeg.

Thanks, again for the vinyl dip idea. No matter what color I can get it in, I appreciate a tough coating that is so easily renewed.
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Old 04-04-2015, 17:02   #3063
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Just realized I had a picture of my windlass control panel. It clamps into a junction of the pulpit top rail and one of the supports, directly above the windlass. The red light in the "nose" base is for a bait tank, so it's absolutely watertight. The "mole" is the plug for a Quick Chain Counter and remote control.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:22   #3064
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I guess I am just old school: I threw the anchor windlass away when I bought the boat, I threw away the propane stove/oven and removed the propane system (a new Origo 3000 is on its way from Defender), I don't have a water heater, I don't have a water maker, I don't have refrigeration. I plan on removing the tri-color from the top of the mast. I will probably also remove two of the winches on the mast. The most extravagant thing I have is a portable generator, it is heavier than I like, and one solar collector that has kept the batteries topped off for the past two years in the boatyard.

My dinghy is a multichined 12' rowboat I designed and built. It weighs about 65 pounds. No engine.

I considered roller furling but I hear too many stories of them jamming. Hanks are reliable.

I got lucky on my spool of Dyneema. I got a 1000' spool of 8mm for $400. All my lifelines will be made of that. I'm not sure what I will do with the leftover but the whole spool weighs virtually nothing.

To me all the gadgets are just more things to maintain, plus I am cheap (you know what they say about engineers)

Happy Easter!!
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:53   #3065
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

John, I sail like you after subscribing to Dick Newick's "modern inconveniences" theories. I do use a roller furler and won't go back. Up here the wind varies a lot in channels and around islands and it was tiring trying to keep the sails optimized.

Couple quick notes- weight aloft makes a big difference, high up the mast 1 pound is worth about 10, at the base a pound is a pound, the lever and all that.

Wood masts work well with the fibers as they expand and contract at a similar rate. This might be a cruising alternative to carbon masts for cruisers to explore. Built and coated with epoxy of course. While I intend to keep using wire standing rigging my running backs keep tension throughout the temp range.

I had to go on the Dark Net to find Allan Collas, he was a Brit sailor banned from competition for using fossil fueled engines to cheat and became known as Allan Coalass in the fleets.

Alain Colas was a French sailor of mythic abilities who won the OSTAR in the aluminum tri Pen Duick 4, Taberly's old boat. Renamed Manureva he sailed it solo around the world for a new world record. His last OSTAR race was singlehanding the 236 foot 4 master Club Mediterranee to second place. He disappeared on the
Route De Rhum solo race aboard Manureva, most people at the time think he may have been run down by a ship though period pictures show cracks in some of the connective welds so a breakup in the storm that year is a possibility.

The 35 foot Nicol design is the cruiser Wanderer. They originally had short floats that were lengthened to the other boats sizes. They can carry a big load for a tri because of the wide main hull at the expense of speed. In OZ many owners have put on wheel houses for the shade in the heat and just power upwind when cruising.
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Old 12-04-2015, 23:10   #3066
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Staysail rigs - self tacking? padeyes?

I was looking at the straps, turning blocks and winches for my 31's staysail sheets today, and started wondering if there's a better way. On the rare occasions when I use the staysail, the turning block - attached to a strap at the break of the forward cabintop - tends to flog in tacks rather close to my passengers and instruments. The staysail sheet is also right about where a dodger should be - blocking a long-time ambition for this northwest boat.

Have any of you all tried a self-tacking arrangement for the staysail on a Searunner?

What about moving the sheet lead forward with padeyes like this one from Colligo?
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Old 13-04-2015, 09:45   #3067
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Will. Ever since headsail roller furling was perfected decades ago, almost all small boats these days have it, and sail more reliably and more safely as a sloop rather than a less efficient cutter. Scrimshaw was no exception... There is still a real advantage to sailing as a sloop, but still having a Searunner cutter rig. This advantage is that we can strike the roller furling headsail entirely, after it has been rolled up about 1/3rd in a gale. Then we can raise the hanked on staysail. Being a "hanked on" staysail means the usually redundant staysail stay can be removed/stowed when daysailing in protected water. This allows for easier tacking during the 95% of the time we sail as a sloop.

Once sailing with a double reefed main and staysail, or still perfectly balanced, with our staysail alone in REALLY high winds, we have a lower more centralized sail plan. This allows us to beat off of a lee shore, even in a gale, stops the pounding, and reduces stresses on the rig. Life becomes tolerable! In the photos of Delphys sailing with our staysail rigged up below, we are beating hard to windward doing 10 knots + in waves > 13' and winds in the high 30s. We were off soundings, but there was a barrier reef just 200' to leeward, all day long. When you really need them... staysails rock!

Below are the photos of a SR 31, (Compliments of Jim Brown's "Searunner Construction Manual"). As you can see, the proper block location is (@ #18), on the forward cockpit bulkhead, inboard a bit of the seat back. With a fixed block like this lacking a track, you get your for and aft adjustment for the sheet's side angle, by experimenting (sailing), and changing the tack's pennant length using ropes. Only when you have it right do you make the permanent wire pennant.

The strongest stand up blocks are NOT the factory "spring stand up" versions. These are marginal at best. Much stronger is attachment with a chainplate or a strong pad eye using the old "tennis ball trick" to get the block to articulate and standup, WITHOUT any slamming/flogging onto the cabin top. See the photo below. You just cut a quarter sized hole on both sides and crush the ball in order to pin the block's shackle, which then remains safely inside the ball. These just last 2 or 3 years, but only cost a dollar to replace. I use them all over the boat!

Regarding your issue... IF your sheet runs through a block on a pennant, up on the cabin front, that sounds like a real nasty set up when it flogs. It also sounds like you need the sail re cut with a higher clew, so that the best sheet angle is as shown on the plans. Again... final tuning is accomplished with small changes to the tack's pennant length. Once it is right it needs no more adjustment, except perhaps with a barber hauler cheek block on a short line running to the ama. This pulls the sheet OR clew outboard, when sailing off of the wind.

You can use this staysail sheet set up with or without a windshield, as shown in Jim's drawing. You can also use a bunji mounted quick collapsing canvass dodger, like Jim ended up with on Scrimshaw, (lowering the full dodger when using the staysail).

We fit the rarely used staysail sheet through the slot between the bimini top and hard dodger. It even works this way with all but the leeward side/forward canvass enclosure curtains zipped in. None of the spray comes from this leeward side, so the cockpit is 95% dry, even in these terrible conditions.

The 31's mast location is less problematic for this. I suggest that you view all of the Scrimshaw YouTube videos on OutRig or Outrig Media. Jim came up with VERY clever ways to deal with all of these issues on the 31'er.

A MORE LABOR INTENSIVE OPTION:
You could also make a very strong hard dodger like ours, but with a simpler shape to build, and a REALLY strong but light weight beam built into the aft edge. Onto this beam you could mount your staysail sheet's stand up lead block, with the lower lead block and winch mounted on the cabin side like ours are.

There are many options, but I would NOT opt for a club footed or wishbone type self tending staysail. In the conditions that they are needed, you don't want a "bat" up there when you need to go forward, and it reduces the sail's portability too. Beating to windward in really nasty seas, there are often deck sweeping waves and "0 Gs" on the bow at the same time!

Good luck with it... Mark

BTW... This isometric drawing below is what I was referring to in a previous post, when I said: "This is too much lifeline/bracing and diagonal lifeline wires for a small trimaran". It is just too much weight. I think that "side" lifelines with no bracing or diagonals is a happy medium between safety and weight/clutter.
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Old 13-04-2015, 09:48   #3068
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

And...
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Old 13-04-2015, 11:39   #3069
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I have a removable staysail stay which makes the Vagabond into a double head sloop. It is there for the rough stuff but gets used most with the spinnaker , its leech collapses first making a great tell tale. Mine has a small overlap so sheets to my towable track cars which are wide enough for 2 sheets. Pulled forward they are in the right position to use with the staysail and still use some unrolled jib.

I did use a staysail boom on a small cutter for years and never had a problem with it, the self tacking feature was very handy. On that boat having the yankee up with the staysail was like using a genoa. I rigged the yankee halyard to a downhaul and the clew to a jack line, both led to the cockpit, that would pull the sail forward and down into the pulpit which was laced making a catcher's glove for fast reefing until I could get up there with tie downs. Without the budget for a furler it did the job well.

Searunners have a smaller staysail and bigger jib so while saving for a furler you might consider using the staysail and yankee, then drop the staysail for reef 1, then drop the yankee and hoist the staysail again for reef 2. More work but exercise is good.
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Old 13-04-2015, 11:42   #3070
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

The tennis ball is neat!
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Old 13-04-2015, 18:22   #3071
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Has anyone seen the April, 2015 edition of Latitude 38 (https://www.latitude38.com/eBooks/2015/L38201504.pdf? In the Changes in Latitudes section is a picture of what appears to be a Searunner 37 that wrecked on a reef in Majuro, having sailed from Hawaii. It's listed as a trimaran of about 35', but it's clear what it is. Apparently the boat has been refloated and is being repaired.
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Old 13-04-2015, 19:23   #3072
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
IF your sheet runs through a block on a pennant, up on the cabin front, that sounds like a real nasty set up when it flogs. It also sounds like you need the sail re cut with a higher clew, so that the best sheet angle is as shown on the plans.
My boat has a largely stock setup w/r/t the staysail, but in addition to the short-pennant turning block shown as #18 in the ever-estimable construction manual, "Pineapple" also has a pair of lovely Barlowe winches on the fwd cabintop, outboard by the chainplates. I cannot quite see how to lead the staysail sheet to the turning block were a dodger or windshield to be added.

I have sailed with yankee and staysail, with the Mule (a much maligned but useful sail for Puget Sound, with its low center of effort during changes), and as a sloop. I don't especially like the hassle of tacking two sails, but for this summer I rather like the idea of having a plan that lets me douse one headsail (with a downhaul as Cavalier describes) and still keep tacking. I'm also not sure the cockpit bulkhead attachment point for the staysail is really strong enough, since it is pierced for instruments within 6" of the hard point.

It seems to me that some kind of staysail boom could be mounted (someday) on deck at the intersection of the fo'csl bulkhead and the deck.

Seems like I should study the Scrimshaw videos again....

Many thanks!
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Old 14-04-2015, 09:36   #3073
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

My 31 had a simpler, straight forward setup for the stays'l sheets with a fixed stand up block on the fwd cabin top then the sheets led to dedicated Barient #10 winches on either side of the fwd cabin opening.
I loved using the cutter setup when beating to windward in >15 kt. It provided greater pointing and optimization of power using different sail combinations on the 2 headsails.

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Old 18-04-2015, 10:04   #3074
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Randy -

That's a great-looking dodger on Zaida. What was the frame like? Your build or commercial?
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Old 18-04-2015, 17:02   #3075
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post

Searunners have a smaller staysail and bigger jib so while saving for a furler you might consider using the staysail and yankee, then drop the staysail for reef 1, then drop the yankee and hoist the staysail again for reef 2. More work but exercise is good.
Not having a furlerI run my 31 like this a lot just for simplicity and not having to worry about removing the genoa. With staysail and yankee it balances nice and I can handle a tack pretty easily. I don't get the speed but unless I am sure of lighter winds this is the easiest for me.

On another note: I built a bimini top last year and will continue enclosing it this year. I have no dodger and have thought a lot about making one but somehow it just seems like a lot. More and more I think about a windshield with a piece of canvas that can snap into the bimini top. The bimini top rolls back. So it would be pleasant to sail on a sunny day but still be out of the wind. Then at night I could close the whole cockpit off which makes for a much more usable 31 with both companion ways open.

Any suggestons on where to look for a windshield or how to make one would be helpful.

Thanks, Jim
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