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Old 20-08-2014, 21:13   #2821
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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For lake sailing and trailer convenience, you might consider building or buying a Seaclipper 20. They seem to sail well, fit on any flatbed trailer and can take a simple tent for overnights. Seaclipper 20 Plans Now Unleashed

The Searunner 25 and 31 are complex boats for the seasteading lifestyle. Lovely as they are, they are not readily portable. Rather, they carry you away in a number of ways.

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I've looked at the Seaclipper 20's, but they're a bit small for what we're looking for. We'd like the boat to be our all day (and maybe overnight) hangout during the weekends we feel like going out. One of the biggest reasons I love the Searunner line is the great dual cabin setup that they have. I have two kids, one of them is 3, and they need a nice place to go when they get bored of sitting up on deck or just need to get out of the sun for a while. The Seaclipper 20 doesn't have any sort of cabin, or even serious shade, and I've never had much interest in it because of that. If I were just looking for something to take out by myself, I would probably give serious thought to the SC20, but I really want to involve my family...and my wife has certain criteria if she's going to be stuck on a boat with the kids all day.

I did take a serious look at the new Seaclipper 24 plans and was pretty excited about the idea of building one, but I just don't have the space to build something like that the RIGHT way and it's too new for any to be out on the market for sale. As far as I know, there is only one that's been built up in New England somewhere. The bigger model Seaclippers and Constant Camber designs are simply out of my price range to buy used without some sort of loan (which isn't feasible right now). Plus I really like the center cockpit design of the Searunner line; safer for the kids and just more comfortable in my humble opinion. I haven't seen any of the smaller CC or SC designs that had a center cockpit.

All that being said, I don't want to seem like I'm blowing off your suggestion. I actually took a few minutes to go back and look at some Seaclipper 20 pictures and the plans you linked after reading your post, but I still don't think it would work for what I'm looking for overall. I do appreciate the feedback, though!
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Old 21-08-2014, 07:37   #2822
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Sounds like you need a Searunner 25' then. I had one, and can tell you that much depends on the trailer and the launch ramp. In order to make room for the amas on the trailer bunks an under the wings, the boat has to sit pretty high on the trailer. This means you will need a long tongue and a steep ramp in order to launch and retrieve. On newer boats the amas either swing forward (Sea clipper) or the braces bend (Farrier designs). This lets them sit lower on the trailer and launch easier on a gentle slope with a short tongue.

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Old 21-08-2014, 08:18   #2823
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Sounds like you need a Searunner 25' then. I had one, and can tell you that much depends on the trailer and the launch ramp. In order to make room for the amas on the trailer bunks an under the wings, the boat has to sit pretty high on the trailer. This means you will need a long tongue and a steep ramp in order to launch and retrieve. On newer boats the amas either swing forward (Sea clipper) or the braces bend (Farrier designs). This lets them sit lower on the trailer and launch easier on a gentle slope with a short tongue.

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Yeah, I've been keeping my eye on a Searunner 25 for sale up in Duluth, MN. It already has everything including a trailer for launching. It comes with all sorts of goodies for a pretty good deal. I'm hoping it'll still be available in the spring, but I'm really torn between that boat and the 31 offer I received. The 25 is instant gratification with only a little bit of work to get it on the water while the 31 would be great for my long term plans with quite a bit of work to get it ready. I'll be able to make a decision after this first semester of flight school when I can figure out how much time I can devote to a boat project.
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:52   #2824
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Mark,
I was looking at a photo of your chain locker. Can you let me know how it drains?
Thanks,
Dan
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:57   #2825
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Hi Mark,
I was looking at a photo of your chain locker. Can you let me know how it drains?
Thanks,
Dan

Hi Dan,
The rope/chain locker has a debris screened sump in the bottom's sub floor, with a plumbing pickup and float switch in it. This actuates a separately located "Gulper" electric diaphragm lift pump that pumps it overboard through the hull's side.

The entire box and its hypolon witches hat (vapor proof) connection to the haws pipe... weighs < 30#s!

For quick access to the bow or underneath the box... After removal of the rode from above, the box can be plumbing & electrically disconnected, as well as physically removed from the boat, in < 5 minutes.

This and the windlass has totally changed cruising for us! It was the culmination of decades of thought about "how to put a truly functional electric windlass into a 34' or smaller trimaran", with an absolute minimum of weight.

I suggest that you read my E book, "Anchoring and Mooring the Cruising Multihull"... Available from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L4DGH4U

For access to an ABUNDANCE of detailed photos, with thorough explanations on this windlass installation AND the boat's wing anchor lockers, as well as ALL multihull ground tackle, associated gear, and routine or storm anchoring techniques... It is the best $9.99 you will ever spend, IMHO...

Having said that... For your 25'er, this anchor locker set-up described, is overkill. Again, read the book! With my first cruising boat "projects" being a 23' Wharram, and next a Seaclipper 28 tri, I give suggestions for smaller multihulls as well.

Basically... it would be a deck level shallow locker that is about 2' long (fore & aft), and goes from hull side to hull side... and about 1' deep. You would straddle the locker's 20" square hatch opening and pull in the rode by hand. It would then drop in and pile up in the shallow locker. Finally, you replace the cambered hatch and you're ready for the next deployment.
This locker btw, (being high up enough), drains out of 1" (epoxied) holes, at each of the locker's corners. This is as simple an installation as they come.

Mark
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:32   #2826
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Here's a couple of photos of this VERY simple deck level anchor locker for YOUR size of boat... Being shallow and hung from the ceiling, you can crawl under this type of locker to reach the bow for maintenance.


For Boats With a Windlass:

The deck level shallow locker I suggested doesn't apply to larger boats like our SR34 (that want a windlass), because without 2' or so (minimum) of chain drop to the TOP of the chain pile, the chain will try to jump the cogs of the gypsy. This is even more of an issue for our smallish trimarans, because our 1/4" HT chain is lighter with a lower profile, and therefore has less grip on the gypsy.
A rope/chain locker low enough in the hull to allow THIS much chain drop can't drain directly through the hull, as the drain holes would be at or below the boat's waterline! Also, for maintenance reasons... you should not block access to the far bow with a permanently installed deep anchor locker.

It was ONLY the need for a windlass that required my coming up with the admittedly complex solution for our 34... It works perfectly for us.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:49   #2827
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

WILDERNESS update: I just finished stripping the decks of all nonskid, using Jabsco Premium Epoxy/Paint Stripper. Seemingly endless work has had good benefits. The new RIB rollers are epoxied in place and look like they grew out of the deck. I have to install a bow stop because the rollers are so efficient that I had to leap out of the way to avoid being run down. Launching the boat was exciting, as well, as the heavy aft end of the RIB (with outboard) wanted to submarine at the speed that it hit the water. About 10 gallons of seawater collected in the boat. I am going to experiment with additional flotation from a double-wide inflatable fender under the raised outboard. That would give me an additional fender when the dink is being used. Both raising and lowering has been a successful operation, though. The current method of retrieval is now (1) hooking an eye in the painter to my bos'n's chair block and tackle, secured to a portion of the bownet rail, (2) hooking the halyard to the bow ring of the RIB and using the halyard, raise the bow onto the deck, (3) Take up the slack with the block and tackle to hold the bow in place, (4) disconnect the halyard and reattach it to the aft bridle attached to the transom, (5) haul away on the self-tailing halyard, pausing to take up slack on the block and tackle (which subsequently ensures that the bow end is pulled parallel to the fore and aft axis of the deck), and, finally, (6) ensuring that the RIB is perfectly centered on its rollers and the bow stop. I have focused on making this a one-person operation that the smallest member of the crew can handle. Launching is a breeze, just release all the securing straps and push with one hand, making absolutely sure that the painter is attached to the boat.

I picked up some stainless steel/2" black nylon trailer boat securing straps at West Marine, and will be adding some pad eyes on the deck and cabintop. Also, to keep the boat securely in position, I will lift the portside of the RIB and slide a standard 10" X 30" fender between the hull and the port deck, outboard. Cinching down on the straps at the bow, two at the transom, and two more from the cabintop to the deck, should keep the RIB aboard in the worst of conditions. Prior to cinching the cabintop straps, I will load the emergency ditch bag and other gear, strapped down inside the dink, then cover the entire boat with its protective cover. Oh, and securing the painter with a carabiener slip to the aft stanchion. Launching requires only releasing five latch-type levers, removing the lifeline gate, removing the cover, and pushing the bow aft.

This has been a challenging project, taking more time than anticipated, but the outcome couldn't have been better. For the Searunner 40, having a RIB is a luxury which is fast becoming a necessity. Less than a minute after setting the anchor (or losing the engine in a tight channel under ominous conditions) I can be zooming around. After I get the decks painted I will send some pics showing the evolution and outcome of this side project which took me away from all the other work that needs to get done by next May.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:52   #2828
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy M - Where are you doing all the work on your Searunner? Just asking because I know how expensive those yards are down there in Shelter Island.
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Old 06-09-2014, 13:22   #2829
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I am on an end tie at Southwestern Yacht Club. Because I am working "clean", I get no hassle from the Harbor Police or the yacht club. My neighbors are always curious at my projects because they have little idea how boats are put together. Putting in the RIB rollers has been the object of much discussion and inspection. So, you can appreciate how happy I am that this all turned out so well. You can see my boat at the dock if you use Google Earth and zoom down to the only multihull, the widest craft at the docks.
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Old 06-09-2014, 14:32   #2830
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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I am on an end tie at Southwestern Yacht Club. Because I am working "clean", I get no hassle from the Harbor Police or the yacht club. My neighbors are always curious at my projects because they have little idea how boats are put together. Putting in the RIB rollers has been the object of much discussion and inspection. So, you can appreciate how happy I am that this all turned out so well. You can see my boat at the dock if you use Google Earth and zoom down to the only multihull, the widest craft at the docks.
I really regret not coming over to see your boat while I was still living in San Diego. When I get back there in a few years, I'll look you up and try to actually drop by this time. Gotta get through flight school first, though!

Glad everything is going great with your Searunner!
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:37   #2831
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I was browsing around and saw this photo and I'm a little confused by it. I don't know a lot about pulley systems, so I wanted to ask if this has the same effect as a standard four pulley block that's just attached to the back of the boat straight to the end of the boom. Does pulley placement matter, or is it just that there are four pulleys in the system?
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Old 07-09-2014, 23:26   #2832
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Silvirus, pulleys provide mechanical power. The downside is that blocks cost money, as well as require additional line. To flatten out the mainsail or control its angle to the wind is important for sail control, particularly as the sail area increases. Your diagram is about as simple as it gets. The two blocks at the aft end of the boom are the ones that are really doing the "heavy lifting". The other two are for directing the line to another location and don't really affect the outcome of how much energy it takes to pull the boom closer to whatever the Harken 168 fastens to. Mine will be attaching to the mainsheet traveller car, which in turn is positioned by some smaller blocks. I will be pulling the stick this winter and installing all the new deck hardware: turning blocks, sheet tracks and blocks, winches, etc. First I have to get the cabintop painted, and that means getting the dodger installed.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:50   #2833
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

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Silvirus, pulleys provide mechanical power. The downside is that blocks cost money, as well as require additional line. To flatten out the mainsail or control its angle to the wind is important for sail control, particularly as the sail area increases. Your diagram is about as simple as it gets. The two blocks at the aft end of the boom are the ones that are really doing the "heavy lifting". The other two are for directing the line to another location and don't really affect the outcome of how much energy it takes to pull the boom closer to whatever the Harken 168 fastens to. Mine will be attaching to the mainsheet traveller car, which in turn is positioned by some smaller blocks. I will be pulling the stick this winter and installing all the new deck hardware: turning blocks, sheet tracks and blocks, winches, etc. First I have to get the cabintop painted, and that means getting the dodger installed.
I figured it was something like that. I did some research on block and tackle after seeing the picture, but I couldn't really find anything about how the position of the pulleys affect the system. The image is a 2:1 setup, right? Would switching out the two aft single blocks with two double blocks give the a 4:1 ratio and still allow the line to run forward with the other two blocks?

I'm interested in this setup because one of the boats I'm looking at already has a steering wheel installed in the forward right part of the cockpit like most powerboats (not sure why but it does). Having the mainsheet run along the boom, down the mast and then aft along the forward cabin top would be pretty nice with that sort of setup forcing me to hang out in the forward part of the cockpit while steering.

With all this work you've been doing it sounds like you've been totally rebuilding the boat! :P
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:10   #2834
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I have an overall question about the difference in Searunner sizes, particularly the larger ones. I'd like my end game boat to be a 34 or bigger because of the mast placement and I find I have very little information on the 37 and 40. I know the 25 is just a small day sailor and I've watched the Scrimshaw videos on Outrig Media enough to know that the 31 is basically a much bigger version of the 25 with a nice dinette in the aft. I've sailed on a 34 and I really like the design because the mast is right there in the cockpit with you, but I'm a little lost on the bigger sizes. Where does the extra length go?

I ask because I've looked at the Searunner comparison chart on searunner.com and the stat differences between the smaller models seem to have a larger affect on choosing a model than the differences between the bigger ones (from a newbie standpoint). Choose the 25 for short day sails and maybe a few overnights here or there. Choose the 31 if you still want something smallish but can still cruise on it. Choose the 34 if you want the mast in the cockpit with you and a little more cockpit seating. Choose the 37 if you want the maximum cockpit space and....?

I guess my question is are there any significant differences between the 34, 37 and 40 other than cockpit seating and carrying capacity? Any significant difference in the cabin space and layout? I imagine the 31 could handle a family of four for cruising, but I really want that mast in the cockpit on my final boat. For a family of four does it make sense to go bigger than a 34? I'd like to have enough capacity to take out a few friends in addition to family for day sails without bogging the boat down, but does that justify moving up to a bigger size? Obviously I'd love to have a 40, but it might be overkill.

I don't mean this to be a sarcastic "why would you ever" post, I'm just curious about the differences between the models, especially space configuration and layout. Sorry for the aimless wandering in this post, but it's a really general question and hard to phrase in a specific way.
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Old 08-09-2014, 13:18   #2835
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

For what it may or may not be worth. Find a Piver, I've owned both.
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