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Old 27-02-2014, 15:19   #2656
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Boatguy30, I appreciate your good intentions, but they are misdirected. I built this boat a long time ago (launched in 1978), I've cruised it, raced it and lived on it for most of that time. I have travelled extensively throughout Mexico, and even have a beach house in Baja, an hour away from San Diego. I think I've paid my dues and learned my lessons well enough to determine where I will go and how. But, as you said, it would better to be getting gone, which is the plan here in one year. I will be focusing on doing "loops", returning at each cycle to my home port in San Diego. Having a fast, dependable, familiar multihull allows one to do that. First trip is to Hawaii for a quick visit to see the places I lived in so many years ago, then north to Puget Sound to hang out for the summer, visiting friends and family in the vicinity of Anacortes, then south to San Diego, to my end tie which I will pay for with my Social Security check, kind of like a condominium. Always there, waiting on my schedule. After a short period of restocking and other maintenance ops, I will leave on the next trip, to the Marquesas, spending the full three month visa in one area, then north again for the rest of the loop. Each circuit will take about a year, including layover periods in San Diego, and each passage will focus on visiting a different area of Polynesia or the great Pacific Northwest. I've visited a lot of places, but these are among my very favorites. If things go well, I may, very well, be taking the boat to Sweden to traverse the canals and lakes (I've spent a lot of time there, and the narrowest point of the lock system is just larger than my beam), then south, eventually to re enter in the Caribbean. Who knows, maybe I'll get a chance to see Mark Johnson and some of the other Searunner folks. Cuba has always been a draw for me.

My health is good, my mom still fishes on the Skagit River for salmon, and I now have the resources to upgrade the last of my systems. So, time's a wastin'.
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Old 27-02-2014, 17:40   #2657
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

This is the first we've heard of a beach house.

CAV and I will take good care of it while you're gone.

Key under the mat?
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Old 27-02-2014, 23:07   #2658
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy,

When you make it up toward Puget Sound, stop off in Florence or Newport, Oregon and I will buy you a cup of hot coffee, or a hot toddy if you prefer.

Rann
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Old 28-02-2014, 09:33   #2659
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

It sounds like a great itinerary Roy.

Key under the mat eh, Jeff?

In reality I'm more inclined to head for the South Pacific too. South of the border seems a bit wild west over the last decade or so for me to feel really relaxed but my years as a misunderstood gub runner have made me a bit edgy. Looking rough around the edges doesn't help when you're trying to explain there is no room for a stash and the boat can't handle the weight of heavy artillery.....

Hawaii then Puget Sound sounds better than a bash up the coast. Don't forget to check out the wind angles for the Queen Charlottes, then a run down the inside of Vancouver Island. I'm sure you'll have plenty of volunteers. .
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Old 28-02-2014, 09:55   #2660
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mexico is nice. Witness the success of the Baja Ha-Ha. I've been there, done that. My favorite place on the planet is 1000 miles southwest of San Diego, in the Trades, enroute to somewhere warm. The days are gorgeous, with occasional showers to wash off the salt, the winds are mostly aft and steady, the night skies are like black velvet inset with brilliant diamonds. The watches are uneventful and restful, and the food coming out of the galley doesn't get any better on earth. I'm looking forward to traversing this patch of heaven on a more regular basis in WILDERNESS.

Of course, those of you who already live in tropical waters, or those fortunates who dwell in the Pacific Northwest's protected (and bountiful) waters, can more fully appreciate this itinerary. The southern coast of Chile could be a candidate, as well, but it's a much longer run, without benefit of nearby tropical paradise for R&R. But the wine is cheaper.
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Old 28-02-2014, 09:59   #2661
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

See you there....
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Old 13-03-2014, 08:38   #2662
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Hi Roy...
I have been very busy lately. I just finished a new E-Book on Anchoring and Mooring the Cruising Multihull. (hopefully available soon) This has taken up all of my time.

Otherwise, we just returned from a couple of weeks in Tenerife, Canary Islands. We flew there to stay with our German cruising friends Wolfgang & Barbara, who recently settled on the island. They are also good friends of J&J, and it was on Stravaig that we got to know them, and other European as well as Australian cruisers. Ah, the advantages of a really big boat... REALLY big boat parties!

We spent our time in Tenerife hiking around Teide, the tallest mountain in Spain. It was a challenge walking on snow covered lava rocks! There was a lot of touring the entire island as well... What a big beautiful world!

Wolfgang tells us this after having cruised Cuba... It is a wonderful friendly island but NOT easy for most cruisers. You must check in daily in all populated areas and never dink ashore otherwise. They were sent back out at night, because they had entered a restricted cove, etc. It is best to fly there or sail in and park the boat at a marina. Then, do inland trips all over, which IS low hassle. Perhaps someday it will be more cruiser friendly, but for now...

Europe also has far more inland interest that are a "must see". The coast can be harsh and uninviting for casual cruisers. They often have rocky bottoms, a high tide, and fewer natural harbors. The man made ones are fine, IF you fit in, are maneuverable enough, and they have a space. Expect much higher prices than we're used to as well.
Again, I'd park the boat at a marina there, and get a Eurail pass for inland touring.

The 100' thick seawall below is over 30' tall, and sustained damage from waves that broke over the top! (This was at the nicest marina in Tenerife)

Roy, I will email you a couple of neat J&J pics that Wolfgang copied for me.

More comments on your comments to follow...
Mark
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Old 13-03-2014, 10:30   #2663
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

About your earlier post Roy...
WOW, an entire new rig! That IS ambitious...

The Email address for John is marplesmarine@gmail.com. He is the guy to talk to about extrusion moments, wire sizes and changes, like possibly going taller. He specified the design changes to our drawn rig, and having co-drawn the boat as well as circumnavigated the pacific a couple of times in Bacchanal, he knows his stuff!
(Not to mention his winning the TransPac in this boat)...

You all know these changes to Delphys well by now, and we are still very pleased with our tall rig, sailed as a sloop but rigged as a cutter. John felt that actually sailing as a cutter "regularly", was too much fiddling with lines and too inefficient. Still, with a cutter rig, we can strike our headsail, and raise the staysail in over 30 knots of consistent wind. It levels the boat right out, stops the pounding, and just slows down a bit.

If I had it to do over again, I might install the extra staysail winches however, to short term SAIL as a cutter, so I could raise the staysail BEFORE the blow that is on the horizon hits. That way, when it really starts to blow, I could just roll up the headsail, and the staysail would ALREADY be up. This reduces the sphincter factor of going up on deck to raise the staysail in a gale with 10' seas... (Which I have done MANY times).

As it is, we use the same huge Anderson winches for both headsails, to save complication and weight. This "using just one set of winches" means sailing with one headsail at the time. It was definitely the right choice for us, but on your boat I would lean toward a tall light rig with no genoa, but a BIG lapper, like we do. I'd also have a hanked on staysail on a removable staysail stay and synthetic runners with quick adjust/quick remove turnbuckles.

It WOULD be nice on your boat, to have staysail winches as well, for the reasons given, since You have more payload and room than we do.

We used a mast from JSI on Delphys and after I re-did all of their fittings, it has served fine. On Mana Loa I used a Lefiell mast kit, and was quite pleased with it as well. On Namaste, I had a mast from Annapolis Spars, and being that it was badly twisted, I give them a bad grade. I know to little about Selden, but have climbed a number of them. If the fittings allow for a fair run to the chainplates, they look fine too, (some Selden's I've inspected didn't).

A full batten mainsail like ours, is the cats meow. It raises and lowers like a charm, and we can leave it up when motoring to windward, so at the next turn on the ICW it will be up and doing us some good. NO FLOGGING! This extends the life of the sail a LOT.
We only use about 6" of roach, and any more would interfere with the backstay. Besides... the boat balances best with VERY little mainsail roach. IT IS A HEADSAIL DRIVEN RIG!
We have Batt Slides at the battens, and with a yearly McLube of the track, they drop like a stone. I like them. Anything fancier is overkill for our small or even "0" roach mains.

I prefer Harken gear on all of our blocks, traveler, "T" tracks, etc. We started out with Scheafer lead blocks, but changed them out for Harken. They're much better.

As I have said before, on our tune sensitive Searunners, (EXCEPT FOR THE RUNNING BACKS), all synthetic standing rigging would be a disaster IMO... Unless they are sailed in a VERY consistent temperature range.
Synthetic rigging would be more prone to side snags of their fibers over the years, (from tool box corners, or wedding rings). It also has no track record as to it's reliability if it is NOT changed for 20 years, (like many cruisers with SS rigs do).
Primarily... Where as SS wire expands and contracts in a way that is close enough to the approximately 1/2" of change in an Aluminum extrusion, (over 100 degrees), this is NOT true for synthetic rigging.
My runners that are adjusted to be bar tight with temps in the 90s, are floppy loose at 50 degrees F, therefore, the entire rig would flop all over in cooler temps. If the rig were adjusted appropriately tight @ 50 degrees, It would be SO tight @ 100 degrees, that hull damage may well be the result.

Synthetics work fine for some rigs, like with carbon spars, or a triangular stayed rig with SS diamonds, but for Searunners... It would be a very bad choice.

So, I would use 316 grade Stainless Steel wire on most of the rig, and terminate them with StaLocs. If done "correctly", they are 100% of the wires strength, and will STAY that way. Wire end terminals are almost ALWAYS where wires that failed, did so. It is no place to save money, and if you figure in that they are re-usable, they start to look like a bargain! We plan to re-use ours, soon.

Hope this helps Roy.
Do keep us informed about your upcoming innovations to the interior and refrigeration, etc. So far LOOKS GREAT!

That's fantastic that you now see light at the end of the re-construction tunnel. Everyone tells me that the Pacific is the ocean to sail in! I'm a bit jealous. we really enjoyed hanging out with J&J, as well as our other cruising friends. Perhaps in the future, money permitting. It does seem to be the magic ingredient, and we are a bit shy of getting SS.
Happy Sailing... Mark
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Old 13-03-2014, 10:54   #2664
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Thanks, Mark! It appears we are in very close agreement on the rigging choices, especially the synthetics for standing rigging. I hope to pull the stick next month and order the replacement. The dodger is moving forward, I am including the latest "sketch" that Lonnie Pogue has rendered. The final result will be similar, a bit more rounded, like yours. The big difference will be the nacelle, allowing me to go below without crashing into the overhead, and being able to see around it when at the helm. What is your take on roller rurling headsail gear. The Harken is looking very good to me (as does everything else they make). I already have Harken 26 STs on the mast for the halyards, and I will be removing the old Barient 16 main sheet winch and the Barient 26s (sheets). I am going to be going to rope clutches in a big way for the boom controls, halyards, etc. The boom is going to have a stainless "wing" pushing the lazy jacks further outboard. Here's a pic of one I installed a couple years ago. It provides a super grip when climbing around the cabin top, though I will also be installing a Bimini to protect us from the tropic sun. Zoom in on the last pic for an idea of how much the lazy jacks get shoved outboard, preventing snags on the battens. I will probably use a bit more flare in mine, and the sailcover will sport the boat name prominently.
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Old 13-03-2014, 12:14   #2665
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Roy,
What I did on the dodger is design it JUST tall enough to sit under but short enough to easily see over when standing at the wheel. It has worked perfectly for this, and since we go into the front cabin ass first, we are bent over anyway, allowing enough head room. IF, however, I have on my cap, I often bump my noggin when going out. Small price to pay...

In your case, you have room to go past the mast and then below decks without contortions, so might find our concept to confining. It is a bit so, but works for us.
After it is drawn, I would suggest that you make a full sized mock-up (ON THE BOAT), made of 1/8" door skins or the like and duct tape, to see if the ergos all work for you. I'm sure it will be a beauty.

I would not use roller furling/reefing on the main or staysail, but IF you have a single primary use headsail, like our "lapper", then DEFINITELY, go with rollerfurling on the headsail. Our Lapper, btw, would make a fine yankee if it were half way rolled up, and I WAS set up for sailing Delphys as a cutter. The sail might not be flat enough for sailing VERY hard to windward, but fine otherwise.

Roller furling is the best reason to have a "single" headsail, as changing sails with it at sea is a BITCH! Our headsail is often all we use on a 3 hour daysail, as raising the main only adds a knot, and we're in no hurry on lazy daysails in the river. Sailing as a cutter with a single purpose Yankee in high winds and switching to a view blocking genoa in light air, don't go well with roller furling, so we made the choices that we did. We do suffer a bit when going hard to windward in < 8 knots of wind, vs flying a genoa, but if we fall off 15 degrees and want to go to the trouble, we fly the asymmetrical. It will sail as tight as 60 degrees just fine. GO WITH ROLLER FURLING!

I went with ProFurl, and have had no issues at all in 18 years of hard sailing. It had top Practical Sailor ratings at the time and we got a huge discount on it through JSI. You could compare prices and reviews now, and see what you think. Harken is also VERY good, but I recently replaced a drum on one for a client because they are exposed plastic and vulnerable to damage. Leaning on the drum when doing bow work, can crack the drum, where as not so with ProFurl, which is protected by a wire cage. Yes... It was me that broke the Harken drum.
I'd probably go with ProFurl, but Harken is my second choice.

With roller furling... look at my clutch holding the furling control line, and the small lead block after it. This allows me to stand at the wheel to roll her up, and pull the control line from ANY any angle. If the winds are <20 knots, I head up and luff a bit, pull the line hard, and immediately fall off to avoid "irons". (I can do it with one hand, because the clutch holds the load). Then I luff and pull again... until it is rolled in. THERE IS NO NEED TO STRAIN OR USE A WINCH FOR THIS!

In a gale, we head down wind to roll it up, and this removes all of the drama from the procedure.

For boom control lines and halyards, more clutches and fewer winches often work better, unless it is situations that require the tensioning of one line right after the other. We like having a winch for each halyard, but they are smaller and cheaper. When space constraints become an issue, clutches can be great. For raising sails from the dodger top... They can be rigged way up on the mast too, so you can pull and re-grip, always pulling with both hands, because the clutch holds the halyard while you re-grip. On your boat, sail weight becomes serious, so you might need to winch her up, but we only use a winch on the last 2'.

I love that SS cradle/lazy jack system! I really thought about that for Delphys, but we have side boom slab reefing blocks and their external control lines in the way. Also, our "God's own awning" would chafe on the cradle. IF I re-think the main sail, boom, AND awning location someday, that cradle is the way I'd go.

To lower our little mainsail, we go to windward, let it fall on the bimini, and manually flake it out on the boom. (See pics) It is really easy, but with your heavier sail, I like your idea better.

It is all so integrated, isn't it.

Later,
Mark
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Old 13-03-2014, 15:49   #2666
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Mark, that's about as nice of a hard dodger as I've seen. It seems very difficult to get the design right and you used the correct parameters.

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Old 13-03-2014, 23:24   #2667
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Art Piver demonstrated his thriftiness by using one winch for both jib sheets. On the winchless (better than wenchless) side after the sheet block turning blocks were set up to lead the sheet to the winch. Some Rudy Choy racers also used this layout to minimize the cockpit scramble and keep everyone at their stations, nowadays charter boats often lead the sheets this way to avoid entangling the guests.

If a cutter had a winch on each side the jib could be dedicated to one and the staysail sheets to the other as needed. More friction is introduced in this setup but you only need it when using both sails or another 2 sail combination. It is a pretty easy layout on a aft cockpit boat but worth contemplating for center cockpit sailors.
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Old 14-03-2014, 09:06   #2668
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

I have a question which isn't about a Searunner but a catamaran we have a contract on. We have a contract on a Crowther Spindrift which has Airex hulls and fir plywood deck, deck house and bridgedeck. All the plywood has been glassed with epoxy on the outside and left natural (no epoxy) on the inside with an Awlgrip finish. The bridge deck is epoxied on the inside and left raw plywood on the outside coated with Awlgrip. The boat is 30 years old and appears to be in excellent shape and I understand the reasoning behind leaving one side of the ply natural as it lets the wood breath. I also realize that most people encapsulate the plywood with epoxy. Any thought on this type of construction?


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Old 14-03-2014, 09:12   #2669
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Not sealing the plywood with epoxy might invite termites in those climates that support them, and "breathing" is not a concept that I quite understand in plywood boats. It merely allows moisture to entire the wood fiber, and that's not necessarily good in my experience.
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Old 14-03-2014, 09:34   #2670
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Re: Trimaran - Especially Searunner - Owners

Quote:
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Not sealing the plywood with epoxy might invite termites in those climates that support them, and "breathing" is not a concept that I quite understand in plywood boats. It merely allows moisture to entire the wood fiber, and that's not necessarily good in my experience.

Thanks for the reply Roy. From my internet research there are a lot of opinions on this subject, but most seem to like to fully encapsulate with epoxy. Would the Awlgrip help as it should be quite moisture resistant. My main concern would be the fir plywood checking and letting moisture in.


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